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Phoenix 49ers Mock Draft V2.0

Originally posted by sf_nicoya:
You're using too much logic and being rational. Please stop.


Some people are just obsessed with the idea of a big WR even when confronted with indisputable evidence.
Please show me were the small speedsters have been successful on this team. . . . . .
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by sf_nicoya:
You're using too much logic and being rational. Please stop.


Some people are just obsessed with the idea of a big WR even when confronted with indisputable evidence.

I'm not a fan of the bigger is better mentality. Having a big receiver can certainly be helpful but the claim that you need bigger receivers to deal with bigger defensive backs never made a lot of sense to me. Why play into the strength of a big cornerback. Find out what their weaknesses are and repeatedly attack those weaknesses, bring in players who attack those weaknesses. For a big defensive back, for obvious reasons, they'll often struggle to stay with a smaller, much faster and quicker receiver who can pretty much run circles around them.

Yes they get the advantage off the line in press coverage but if that receiver is already moving, good luck putting your hands on someone that you can't even catch.






If we're talking about what the 49ers can do to improve their chances versus NFC West opponents, adding legitimate speed to the offense is the single biggest factor IMO, hence why I think that Duke Johnson and Dorsett would be tremendous additions, true impact guys. Lockett is another player who I think could fit in very well. Regardless of their height and weight, they all add a new dimension to the offense.
People can use TY Hilton all they want. But as I stated, he don't have to play the Cards, Seaducks, Rams, and 49ers twice a year each. But I guess those aren't facts.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Because the history with these "speedy" guys haven't been all that successful for THIS team. In fact, it's been down right atrocious. The best WR's FOR THE 49ERS haven't been been the sub 6'0", sub 200lbs guys. From Rice to Owens to Boldin the most successful WR's FOR THE 49ERS have been 6'2+, 200+ lbs, and a bit more on the physical side, certainly guys that knew/know how to at least get off the LOS. We're not the Colts, the Pats, the Eagles, or the Redskins. And perhaps we should stop trying to be like them and stay true to who we are. Speed indeed kills. . . . . . . when it can get off the LOS. IMHO

"Because history."....................that its, seriously.


Trying to compare things from 20 years ago when you have different players, different coaches and an entirely different offense makes absolutely no sense.


An offense needs balance in all ways, the 49ers largest problem has been that they are lacking speed on offense. When they did have a semblance of speed on offense in 2012, the offense was quite a bit more effective. Finding that speed to threaten teams vertically is crucial, regardless of how big or small the receiver might be, the 49ers need to force teams to cover more of the football field overall, to spread defenses out more and create more opportunities for all their playmakers.





Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
People can use TY Hilton all they want. But as I stated, he don't have to play the Cards, Seaducks, Rams, and 49ers twice a year each. But I guess those aren't facts.

What does that even mean. Do these guys somehow stop performing because they play in the NFC West.


I just think you're being pretty irrational here. "Small receivers check into the NFC West....but they don't check out." Yet John Brown and Doug Baldwin have not had any problems playing in this division.

All across the NFL you have guys like Odell Beckham and Antonio Brown being huge playmakers but your argument is that somehow they'd lose that ability coming into the NFC West.


This smaller receiver clearly couldn't handle the awesomeness that is Seattle.



[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:08 PM ]
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Please show me were the small speedsters have been successful on this team. . . . . .

So because things once were one way, they should always be that way forever and ever........


It might be time to let go of the past, presenting an argument of "well things worked like that in the past" is meaningless.

If everyone thought that way, the Packers would still be running the power sweep as a cornerstone of their offense.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:06 PM ]
  • SaksV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,470
The 2015 49ers should draft a big bodied WR simply because that's what worked in 1995???? My goodness...

The appeal to History is a total fallacy that plagues many who have gone long without tasting true success. I get it...I get that folks are dying for a Super Bowl ring....so am I. But looking at this current squad through the lens of the 80s or 90s or even 2014 is totally not necessary. The NFL has evolved since Jerry Rice was on our roster....hell, it's even evolved since T.O. was here. The Fans better evolve their minds too or suffer from extreme frustration.

As for the argument that small/quick wideouts don't survive the NFC West....Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce shredded our division for a decade. Nate Burleson earned his first big contract being pretty darn successful in the NFC West.

Nice Mock BTW Phoenix....I really really like the Dorsett pick...I think he's gonna be a steal.
[ Edited by SaksV on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:14 PM ]
Originally posted by SaksV:
The 2015 49ers should draft a big bodied WR simply because that's what worked in 1995???? My goodness...

The appeal to History is a total fallacy that plagues many who have gone long without tasting true success. I get it...I get that folks are dying for a Super Bowl ring....so am I. But looking at this current squad through the lens of the 80s or 90s or even 2014 is totally not necessary. The NFL has evolved since Jerry Rice was on our roster....hell, it's even evolved since T.O. was here. The Fans better evolve their minds too or suffer from extreme frustration.


Thank you. I get that people are frustrated because AJ Jenkins was a bust, but that is on Jenkins and Jenkins alone. It was a bad pick, every GM makes them, some people dealt with it and moved on, others saw it as an indictment of "smaller receivers" that have absolutely not a single thing to do with Jenkins.




I'm happy with whatever works and looking at this draft, beyond the first round, the most explosive guys in the draft are all smaller receivers. I couldn't care less whether they are 6'5" or 5'8", just give me someone that can get open consistently and beat a defense deep down the field, simple as that.
  • SaksV
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,470
The best WRs are the ones that the defensive back isn't able to read within the first 5 to 8 yards off the LOS. However that WR gets off the line (strength/size vs. quickness/speed) is almost irrelevant. What matters most is a WR that looks like he's running the exact same route every time. That's why Jerry Rice ("big") and Marvin Harrison ("small") are #1 and #2 all-time in receptions....their size was never as important as their skills.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
"Because history."....................that its, seriously.


Trying to compare things from 20 years ago when you have different players, different coaches and an entirely different offense makes absolutely no sense.


An offense needs balance in all ways, the 49ers largest problem has been that they are lacking speed on offense. When they did have a semblance of speed on offense in 2012, the offense was quite a bit more effective. Finding that speed to threaten teams vertically is crucial, regardless of how big or small the receiver might be, the 49ers need to force teams to cover more of the football field overall, to spread defenses out more and create more opportunities for all their playmakers.
I do believe I said from Rice to Owens to Boldin. Did I not? True, we have been lacking speed on defense. But that don't mean we need to get a tiny, light in the ass WR to do it. Because again, THIS TEAM HASN'T HAD MUCH SUCCESS WITH THAT!!If I'm wrong please show me where this team has had success with those type of players. And they seem to not be successful for the same reason - they cannot get off the LOS, get handles at the point of attack, and too often get re-touted. Agian, we're talking about this team, in this division.

Spread defenses out? Didn't we try that last season with disastrous results? What will it take for people to understand that Kaep isn't that type of QB? What will it take for us to understand that our O-line isn't built for that? So unless or until the decision is made to go into full rebuild mode and start over with the roster (highly doubt that) we need to bring in players that fit the identity already here, and that's not a tiny speedster. You are right, we do need balance. That's why I say we need to find/draft/develop a bigger, physical WR that can hold his own at the LOS and get separation. And there are guys in this years draft that fit that description.
Lol.

SMH.


No point in trying to reason with fallacious arguments. Some people just have no clue what the hell they're talking about.
[ Edited by sf_nicoya on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:23 PM ]

Originally posted by sf_nicoya:
Lol.

SMH.


No point in trying to reason with fallacious arguments. Some people just have no clue what the hell they're talking about.
Show me where my argument is "fallacious". Or are you just masquerading your opinion as truth and fact?
[ Edited by 9ersLiferInChicago on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:31 PM ]
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I do believe I said from Rice to Owens to Boldin. Did I not? True, we have been lacking speed on defense. But that don't mean we need to get a tiny, light in the ass WR to do it. Because again, THIS TEAM HASN'T HAD MUCH SUCCESS WITH THAT!!

The problem is that your viewpoint is entirely based in emotion. You have no rational argument as to why a smaller receiver couldn't succeed, in spite of being provided example after example of such. The 49ers aren't in some dimensional vortex where every receiver under 6'2" is somehow doomed to failure. Put Antonio Brown or Odell Beckham in this offense and they are certainly capable of being very successful, even if they are *GASP*...facing the Rams, Cardinals and Seahawks.


Odell Beckham vs the NFC West:


vs the 49ers-6 catches, 93 yards.

vs the Rams-8 catches, 148 yards, 2 TD's

vs the Seahawks-7 catches, 108 yards



You need to get him the memo that tells him he can't do anything against the NFC West, especially after bench pressing only 7 reps at the Combine, total weak sauce.






John Brown vs the NFC West( 2 game totals)


vs the 49ers 103 yards, 2 TD's

vs the Seahawks 105 yards

vs the Rams 95 yards



Not sure how he physically survived playing against the NFC West considering he's only 179 pounds.....




Doug Baldwin versus the NFC West

Vs The Cards 119 yards

vs the Rams 163 yards

vs the 49ers 88 yards



At 189 pounds I'm sure its a miracle that he's been able to make it this far.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:40 PM ]
Round 1:
do like a lot. Don't think that one needs to say more about that.

Round 2:
do like as well because we, like almost every teem, need some change-of-pace back BADLY.

Round 3:
another well-known weakness would be eliminated

Round 4:
nice one. A DB who can play Safety and CB is always a good choice especially if he can tackle well.

Round 5:
Nice job.

Round 6:
like it. Never stops? an additional Borland, why not. Perhaps we can use him at ST and if he is a better football player than Moody than, who knows, he could be an ILB as well.

Round 7:
Meh.

comp 4:
like but I'm afraid that he won't be available there.

comp 7:
will always like the d-line

Now the suprising overall grade:
B-

Why?
Imho, you always need some quality at the trenches. You don't give us any. Iupati will be gone, Boone could be gone next off-season, Looney? Thomas coming from IR? Sorry, the o-line is WAY too important to gamble like you do.
Imho, we have to and will pull the trigger on a lineman within the first four rounds, especially if we get a comp 4th rounder.

Furthermore, more pass-rushing OLBs are needed, imho. Yeah, you go with the guy from USC. Why not in the first four rounds? I do like versatile guys like the DB but if there is a pass-rusher, I'd take him within a heartbeat. Sophomore slump by Lynch, Aldon banned again, Skuta not a pass-rusher at all, Brooks gone., Lemonier is a loser so far, dont know s**t about Thomas' ability in the NFL. No thanks, don't want to watch how the opposing QB is choosing his target when he is zipping tea at the same time because he got way too much time in the pocket.
I like Mannion but it sounds like he had a poor showing down in Mobile. Read some scouts calling him undraftable. Be nice if we could get him lower than the 4th.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The problem is that your viewpoint is entirely based in emotion. You have no rational argument as to why a smaller receiver couldn't succeed, in spite of being provided example after example of such. The 49ers aren't in some dimensional vortex where every receiver under 6'2" is somehow doomed to failure. Put Antonio Brown or Odell Beckham in this offense and they are certainly capable of being very successful, even if they are *GASP*...facing the Rams, Cardinals and Seahawks.


Odell Beckham vs the NFC West:


vs the 49ers-6 catches, 93 yards.

vs the Rams-8 catches, 148 yards, 2 TD's

vs the Seahawks-7 catches, 108 yards



You need to get him the memo that tells him he can't do anything against the NFC West, especially after bench pressing only 7 reps at the Combine, total weak sauce.
Emotion. . . . . . Hmmmm, imma agree to disagree at this point. Like I said good mock, with some disagreements (not based on emotion, but fact, like yours).
[ Edited by 9ersLiferInChicago on Jan 24, 2015 at 6:49 PM ]
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