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Phoenix 49ers Mock Draft V2.0

Originally posted by All22:
No, no no.

Tayvon Austin and Stedman Bailey are small fast receivers that don't do jack against Seattle. Neither did John Brown, Wes Welker, Maclin, Cobb, Garcon, D.Jackson etc. etc.

You can't think that just because a couple small fast guys did well (once!) that most small fast guys will... Especially not in our offense. I mean, Stevie Johnson is known as the Sherman/Revis killer and our scheme against Seattle was totally ineffective against Sherman. The key to beating Sherman is to beat him where we are strong not try to beat him at his strength (basically anything along the sideline or on his deep 1/3).

Most receivers don't do well against them, you brought up Austin and Bailey but neglected to mention that Britt and Quick did jack against them as well. The guys that have done well are usually smaller, faster and quicker guys who can get to where their defense can't.


John Brown never got a shot against them with Palmer as his QB, in the 2nd game it was Lindley. We saw what the difference was between Lindley and Stanton, who really isn't all that great in the two games that the 49ers played against them this year.



I think people focus too much on a guy's height and weight and not the totality of what he is bringing to the table. Looking at the 49ers receivers next season with Boldin, Johnson, Patton and Ellington, the main thing that I see they are lacking is a true downfield threat. Both Patton and Ellington are decently faster but neither has that "goodnight and good luck" sort of explosiveness that a guy like Dorsett brings to the table. I think Lockett could fit that role as well, just having that guy changes the way defenses approach your team.




Think Baltimore in 2012 when you had Torrey Smith as the ever-present deep threat(hardly a giant), with Boldin and Pitta working the slot and intermediate parts of the field. An offense needs balance, because of their lack of speed, especially with VD crapping the bed, the 49ers have none.





Everybody wants the 6'5", 230 pound guy who runs a 4.35 40, has incredible hands and route running ability, the problem is that those guys are usually gone in the first 3 or 4 picks of the draft. Meanwhile arguably the top receiver in football right now is Antonio Brown, a groan-inducing "smaller" receiver that was picked in the 3rd round. The talent is out there but a single-minded focus on measurables doesn't help.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:54 PM ]
http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/videos/Wright-Torches-Sherman-For-A-38-Yard-Touchdown/dd244897-9ce3-43f1-87d2-4636493ef5d3








but only once, right?
all of these guys ran 4.4 or faster.
[ Edited by sf_nicoya on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:52 PM ]
  • All22
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As any good Madden player will tell you, a Cover 3 is not vulnerable deep down the sideline unless your receiver can CONSISTENTLY win the jump ball.

If you can stomach watching a Richard Sherman highlight you'll see that the vast majority of his picks and passes defensed come when teams try to beat him vertically.
Originally posted by All22:
As any good Madden player will tell you, a Cover 3 is not vulnerable deep down the sideline unless your receiver can CONSISTENTLY win the jump ball.

If you can stomach watching a Richard Sherman highlight you'll see that the vast majority of his picks and passes defensed come when teams try to beat him vertically.

Its not necessarily about beating him deep, but having a receiver who can consistently go where he isn't, whether that is moving laterally or whatever, he has struggled against faster receivers who are also excellent route runners.




Mostly its not even about him, its about every single defense out there that looks at the 49ers offense, see's no reason to keep their safeties back and creep ever closer to the line of scrimmage. Its about giving teams a viable reason to keep someone back, the ever-present threat of a receiver that can blow by his coverage and take one to the house. Its about stopping defenses from cheating to stuff the run game and to keep them from crowding the intermediate areas, giving more room for the TE's and guys like Boldin, Johnson and Ellington to operate.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:58 PM ]
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Sure, you can find 4-5 plays (in 4 years ) of guys beating Sherman deep but I can probably find the same amount of clips of people running over Patrick Willis and Bowman... does that mean a solid strategy for attacking the 49er D is to try to run over Willis and Bowman? No, of course not.

Why attack arguably their strongest defensive player at his strongest technique?

IMO the best thing to do is to put a HUGE receiver or TE on his side and run right at him all day. Make him tackle hold the edge all day.


#t=133
We need legit speed threats not just to beat Sherman 2 (or 3) games a year, but more importantly, for the other 14+ games, we need speed threats to get 8 or 9 men out of the box for our running game. I don't care it they are 5'4 or 6'4.
I pray, that our draft doesn't turn out like this. It's wrong in so many angles
Originally posted by 49ersPrincipality:
I pray, that our draft doesn't turn out like this. It's wrong in so many angles

Care to share why you feel that way.
  • All22
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by All22:
As any good Madden player will tell you, a Cover 3 is not vulnerable deep down the sideline unless your receiver can CONSISTENTLY win the jump ball.

If you can stomach watching a Richard Sherman highlight you'll see that the vast majority of his picks and passes defensed come when teams try to beat him vertically.

Its not necessarily about beating him deep, but having a receiver who can consistently go where he isn't, whether that is moving laterally or whatever, he has struggled against faster receivers who are also excellent route runners.




Mostly its not even about him, its about every single defense out there that looks at the 49ers offense, see's no reason to keep their safeties back and creep ever closer to the line of scrimmage. Its about giving teams a viable reason to keep someone back, the ever-present threat of a receiver that can blow by his coverage and take one to the house. Its about stopping defenses from cheating to stuff the run game and to keep them from crowding the intermediate areas, giving more room for the TE's and guys like Boldin, Johnson and Ellington to operate.
Yes, I agree with that 100%. The problem is not that we can't back Sherman off it's that we can't back off Chancellor and their linebackers. A healthy Vernon and Delanie did a better job of keeping those guys backed up than any receiver we're likely to get. Just think Green Bay couldn't back those guys off with Nelson, Cobb, Adams, James Jones etc but Antonio Gates did.

Hell, Antonio Gates was easily the most successful pass-catcher against the Seahawks all year.
Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
With Dorsey, Williams and Dial on board, I don't get Shelton as the pick. We have plenty of depth at NT...what we don't have is enough experienced depth at DE, which is why someone like FSU's Eddie Goldman makes more sense. EG's got the size 6-3, 315-320, is stout against the run, but also has the quickness to put heat on the QB. He's good playing inside or out...that's too much versatility to pass up, IMHO. Neither Carradine nor Jerrod-Edie have proven themselves as starters, so without Ray Mac and potentially Justin Smith, Tomsula needs a guy like Goldman.

I like Duke Johnson at RB.

As for the WR, I'm thinking Crabtree's gone...probably Lloyd, too. Not sure about SJ. I'm also thinking both Patton & Ellington will figure a lot more prominently in the passing game. So, I'd lean toward a bigger, fast WR...even a guy like Devin Smith would be good. He's 6-1, 200 and has the speed to get deep. Just think his combination of size and speed trumps a smaller guy like Dorsett. If not Smith, then somebody like him who has those attributes.

Don't see Baalke drafting an H-back type...not when he has Carrier and Millard. A bigger TE who can catch and block would seem more likely.

The rest of the picks seem fine.

OR, with Mcdonald and possible Smith gone, some of those guys can slide out to the to DE.

Originally posted by Butter:
OR, with Mcdonald and possible Smith gone, some of those guys can slide out to the to DE.

I think people are majorly underestimating NT, especially with Fangio gone and with Mangini, who had Wilfork as his NT, coming in. Ian Williams has had two severe season-ending knee injuries back to back. Dorsey has played well but was also dinged up, in anycase you can put Dorsey at NT or at DE. If Shelton winds up being a dominant NT, that makes life on the ends a lot easier.

The way I look at it is.....the 49ers aren't going to replace Justin Smith via the draft, the guy is just too good and trying to run the same system with lesser players probably won't bring many positive dividends, so it might make sense to try something new and if Mangini opts to run a 2 gap scheme, then a much bigger guy in the middle becomes a must.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 5:43 PM ]
Love the 1st pick! Shelton is a beast in da middle. It'll make life much easier for Willis and Bowman. I would take that any day than risking another boom or bust at WR in the 1st round.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Butter:
OR, with Mcdonald and possible Smith gone, some of those guys can slide out to the to DE.

I think people are majorly underestimating NT, especially with Fangio gone and with Mangini, who had Wilfork as his NT, coming in. Ian Williams has had two severe season-ending knee injuries back to back. Dorsey has played well but was also dinged up, in anycase you can put Dorsey at NT or at DE. If Shelton winds up being a dominant NT, that makes life on the ends a lot easier.

The way I look at it is.....the 49ers aren't going to replace Justin Smith via the draft, the guy is just too good and trying to run the same system with lesser players probably won't bring many positive dividends, so it might make sense to try something new.

Completely agree. Having a solid rotation behind Shelton seems like a positive thing. Players like Marshon Lynch wear down defenses. It would be great to have a big body to wear him down.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
This.

I cannot stress enough to folks about how we need to understand the division we play in. Six of our games will be against some of the leagues best defenses, defenses that boasts of big physical CB's were, as a whole and on average, smaller WR's don't have much success against. They have a harder time getting off the LOS and often get re-routed, causing the QB to hold the ball longer. TY Hilton plays in a division with defenses nowhere near as physical as the Seaducks, Cards, 49ers, and Rams. TY Hilton is good for his division, but I'm not so sure how much success he'd have in the NFC West.


Besides eating up Seattle right?

The one common thing is that the receivers that they've had the most trouble with are all guys under 6 feet tall who possess a lot of speed and quickness. Not sure why your mindset is that you need big physical receivers to play against big physical cornerbacks, you're only playing into their hands by giving them a bigger target to hold on to. Calvin Johnson did jack s**t against them while TY Hilton went for over 140 yards receiving.

How did Denver's big receivers do against them last year? Do you really think you are going to throw over the top on Richard Sherman??


Sherman has shown that he struggles versus smaller, faster guys that force him to turn his hips. TY Hilton, Jarius Wright, Kendall Wright all had success against them. They go into motion right before the snap, make their cuts and beat them through their speed and quickness. The way the Colts used Hilton should be a blueprint in terms of attacking their defense.


The 49ers need a true gamebreaker type, a guy with the ability to be a threat way downfield, whether that guy is 6'5", or 5'8", it doesn't matter, he just has to add that element that he can take the top off a defense consistently. In this draft, when I look at vertical threats, particularly outside the first round, Dorsett and Lockett seem like the most viable choices.


John Brown is a little munchkin as a receiver but that didn't stop him from giving the 49ers some major headaches. He had a tremendous rookie season inspite of being "undersized" and playing in the beastly NFC West which I think matters a whole lot less than you seem to.


Speed kills, it doesn't matter who the defense is, big or small, speed is a trump card if you can utilize it properly. The single biggest weakness on the 49ers entire offense is the lack of speed, pure and simple. If you don't give teams a reason to respect you down the field, you allow them to compress the field, bring their safeties up and attack you in the short zone.
Because the history with these "speedy" guys haven't been all that successful for THIS team. In fact, it's been down right atrocious. The best WR's FOR THE 49ERS haven't been been the sub 6'0", sub 200lbs guys. From Rice to Owens to Boldin the most successful WR's FOR THE 49ERS have been 6'2+, 200+ lbs, and a bit more on the physical side, certainly guys that knew/know how to at least get off the LOS. We're not the Colts, the Pats, the Eagles, or the Redskins. And perhaps we should stop trying to be like them and stay true to who we are. Speed indeed kills. . . . . . . when it can get off the LOS. IMHO
Is there a WR worth the 15th pick?
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