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Phoenix 49ers Mock Draft V2.0

Originally posted by Irish40Niner:
I wouldn't say he's trash, I however am not a fan of his either. We can do better.

Looking in the middle rounds, in a weak QB draft, who do you see as a better prospect and a guy that could come off the bench right away and play?


Its pretty much a crapshoot and Mannion is as good an option as anyone else at that point imo.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:10 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Besides eating up Seattle right?

The one common thing is that the receivers that they've had the most trouble with are all guys under 6 feet tall who possess a lot of speed and quickness. Not sure why your mindset is that you need big physical receivers to play against big physical cornerbacks, you're only playing into their hands by giving them a bigger target to hold on to. Calvin Johnson did jack s**t against them while TY Hilton went for over 140 yards receiving.

How did Denver's big receivers do against them last year? Do you really think you are going to throw over the top on Richard Sherman??


Sherman has shown that he struggles versus smaller, faster guys that force him to turn his hips. TY Hilton, Jarius Wright, Kendall Wright all had success against them. They go into motion right before the snap, make their cuts and beat them through their speed and quickness. The way the Colts used Hilton should be a blueprint in terms of attacking their defense.


The 49ers need a true gamebreaker type, a guy with the ability to be a threat way downfield, whether that guy is 6'5", or 5'8", it doesn't matter, he just has to add that element that he can take the top off a defense consistently. In this draft, when I look at vertical threats, particularly outside the first round, Dorsett and Lockett seem like the most viable choices.


John Brown is a little munchkin as a receiver but that didn't stop him from giving the 49ers some major headaches. He had a tremendous rookie season inspite of being "undersized."


Speed kills, it doesn't matter who the defense is, big or small, speed is a trump card if you can utilize it properly. The single biggest weakness on the 49ers entire offense is the lack of speed, pure and simple. If you don't give teams a reason to respect you down the field, you allow them to compress the field, bring their safeties up and attack you in the short zone.

You're using too much logic and being rational. Please stop.


Some people are just obsessed with the idea of a big WR even when confronted with indisputable evidence.
[ Edited by sf_nicoya on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:13 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Looking in the middle rounds, in a weak QB draft, who do you see as a better prospect and a guy that could come off the bench right away and play?


Its pretty much a crapshoot and Mannion is as good an option as anyone else at that point imo.

I like Grayson around the 4th or Sims if we draft one later. Haven't really looked at QBs too much this year, been more locked in on WRS, OL, DL and CBs.
Originally posted by Irish40Niner:
I like Grayson around the 4th or Sims if we draft one later. Haven't really looked at QBs too much this year, been more locked in on WRS, OL, DL and CBs.

I would agree but I don't see Grayson falling to the 4th round.


If you're looking at the middle to late 4th and you want a guy that could come in and play this year if needed, Mannion is about as good as it gets in term of whats available. Lots of projects, lots of iffy candidates, just a bad QB draft all around.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Looking in the middle rounds, in a weak QB draft, who do you see as a better prospect and a guy that could come off the bench right away and play?


Its pretty much a crapshoot and Mannion is as good an option as anyone else at that point imo.

As much as I hate to say it, I think going with a veteran QB from FA is the best way to go again. Mannion isn't better then Jake Locker or Brian Hoyer and it would be a waste of a pick that can go to picking up Gunter from Miami.
Originally posted by shmuck:
As much as I hate to say it, I think going with a veteran QB from FA is the best way to go again. Mannion isn't better then Jake Locker or Brian Hoyer and it would be a waste of a pick that can go to picking up Gunter from Miami.

I think the need to choose a QB and then develop them is pretty strong. I'd rather that they draft someone and work with them instead of hoping to rescue someone else's iffy quarterback. If going down that route, they might as well just keep Gabbert.
Best mock I've seen this far
Originally posted by sf_nicoya:
You're using too much logic and being rational. Please stop.


Some people are just obsessed with the idea of a big WR even when confronted with indisputable evidence.

I'm not a fan of the bigger is better mentality. Having a big receiver can certainly be helpful but the claim that you need bigger receivers to deal with bigger defensive backs never made a lot of sense to me. Why play into the strength of a big cornerback. Find out what their weaknesses are and repeatedly attack those weaknesses, bring in players who attack those weaknesses. For a big defensive back, for obvious reasons, they'll often struggle to stay with a smaller, much faster and quicker receiver who can pretty much run circles around them.

Yes they get the advantage off the line in press coverage but if that receiver is already moving, good luck putting your hands on someone that you can't even catch.






If we're talking about what the 49ers can do to improve their chances versus NFC West opponents, adding legitimate speed to the offense is the single biggest factor IMO, hence why I think that Duke Johnson and Dorsett would be tremendous additions, true impact guys. Lockett is another player who I think could fit in very well. Regardless of their height and weight, they all add a new dimension to the offense.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:36 PM ]
Boy I hope this don't come true terrible mock shelton wasn't anything special and Mannion is hot Garbage the only Qb that looked decent was Grayson
Originally posted by Harbaalke:
Boy I hope this don't come true terrible mock shelton wasn't anything special and Mannion is hot Garbage the only Qb that looked decent was Grayson

Some people have bad weeks. Mannion looks solid on tape

  • All22
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,015
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
This.

I cannot stress enough to folks about how we need to understand the division we play in. Six of our games will be against some of the leagues best defenses, defenses that boasts of big physical CB's were, as a whole and on average, smaller WR's don't have much success against. They have a harder time getting off the LOS and often get re-routed, causing the QB to hold the ball longer. TY Hilton plays in a division with defenses nowhere near as physical as the Seaducks, Cards, 49ers, and Rams. TY Hilton is good for his division, but I'm not so sure how much success he'd have in the NFC West.


Besides eating up Seattle right?

The one common thing is that the receivers that they've had the most trouble with are all guys under 6 feet tall who possess a lot of speed and quickness. Not sure why your mindset is that you need big physical receivers to play against big physical cornerbacks, you're only playing into their hands by giving them a bigger target to hold on to. Calvin Johnson did jack s**t against them while TY Hilton went for over 140 yards receiving.

How did Denver's big receivers do against them last year? Do you really think you are going to throw over the top on Richard Sherman??


Sherman has shown that he struggles versus smaller, faster guys that force him to turn his hips. TY Hilton, Jarius Wright, Kendall Wright all had success against them. They go into motion right before the snap, make their cuts and beat them through their speed and quickness. The way the Colts used Hilton should be a blueprint in terms of attacking their defense.


The 49ers need a true gamebreaker type, a guy with the ability to be a threat way downfield, whether that guy is 6'5", or 5'8", it doesn't matter, he just has to add that element that he can take the top off a defense consistently. In this draft, when I look at vertical threats, particularly outside the first round, Dorsett and Lockett seem like the most viable choices.


John Brown is a little munchkin as a receiver but that didn't stop him from giving the 49ers some major headaches. He had a tremendous rookie season inspite of being "undersized" and playing in the beastly NFC West which I think matters a whole lot less than you seem to.


Speed kills, it doesn't matter who the defense is, big or small, speed is a trump card if you can utilize it properly. The single biggest weakness on the 49ers entire offense is the lack of speed, pure and simple. If you don't give teams a reason to respect you down the field, you allow them to compress the field, bring their safeties up and attack you in the short zone.


No, no no.

Tayvon Austin and Stedman Bailey are small fast receivers that don't do jack against Seattle. Neither did John Brown, Wes Welker, Maclin, Cobb, Garcon, D.Jackson etc. etc.

You can't think that just because a couple small fast guys did well (once!) that most small fast guys will... Especially not in our offense. I mean, Stevie Johnson is known as the Sherman/Revis killer and our scheme against Seattle was totally ineffective against Sherman. The key to beating Sherman is to beat him where we are strong not try to beat him at his strength (basically anything along the sideline or on his deep 1/3).

When we got him off his deep 3rd both Crabtree and Lloyd were able to get separation from him. Sherman has shown to be vulnerable moving laterally across the field.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I'm not a fan of the bigger is better mentality. Having a big receiver can certainly be helpful but the claim that you need bigger receivers to deal with bigger defensive backs never made a lot of sense to me. Why play into the strength of a big cornerback. Find out what their weaknesses are and repeatedly attack those weaknesses, bring in players who attack those weaknesses. For a big defensive back, for obvious reasons, they'll often struggle to stay with a smaller, much faster and quicker receiver who can pretty much run circles around them.

Yes they get the advantage off the line in press coverage but if that receiver is already moving, good luck putting your hands on someone that you can't even catch.






If we're talking about what the 49ers can do to improve their chances versus NFC West opponents, adding legitimate speed to the offense is the single biggest factor IMO, hence why I think that Duke Johnson and Dorsett would be tremendous additions, true impact guys. Lockett is another player who I think could fit in very well. Regardless of their height and weight, they all add a new dimension to the offense.


Exactly!

I think I had this conversation with you during last year's off-season leading up to the draft so need to convince me.

Make Dick Sherman pay by flying off the line and getting behind him, which forces Earl Thomas to abandon his assignment and subsequently allows for others to get open. That's how you combat cover 1/cover 3.
[ Edited by sf_nicoya on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM ]
Originally posted by All22:

You can't think that just because a couple small fast guys did well (once!) that most small fast guys will...


once? Wtf are you talking about?

Roddy White, Jarius Wright, Odell Beckham JR, TY HIlton, etc.


All of these guys have torched those big DBs. What do all these guys have in common? SPEED and QUICKNESS.
[ Edited by sf_nicoya on Jan 24, 2015 at 4:46 PM ]
I think Shelton will be a bust from what I've seen on film. I really don't like him. Duke Johnson on the other hand would be awesome. He would fix our kick return problems too.
With Dorsey, Williams and Dial on board, I don't get Shelton as the pick. We have plenty of depth at NT...what we don't have is enough experienced depth at DE, which is why someone like FSU's Eddie Goldman makes more sense. EG's got the size 6-3, 315-320, is stout against the run, but also has the quickness to put heat on the QB. He's good playing inside or out...that's too much versatility to pass up, IMHO. Neither Carradine nor Jerrod-Edie have proven themselves as starters, so without Ray Mac and potentially Justin Smith, Tomsula needs a guy like Goldman.

I like Duke Johnson at RB.

As for the WR, I'm thinking Crabtree's gone...probably Lloyd, too. Not sure about SJ. I'm also thinking both Patton & Ellington will figure a lot more prominently in the passing game. So, I'd lean toward a bigger, fast WR...even a guy like Devin Smith would be good. He's 6-1, 200 and has the speed to get deep. Just think his combination of size and speed trumps a smaller guy like Dorsett. If not Smith, then somebody like him who has those attributes.

Don't see Baalke drafting an H-back type...not when he has Carrier and Millard. A bigger TE who can catch and block would seem more likely.

The rest of the picks seem fine.
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