Tavon Austin vs Cordarelle Patterson

Originally posted by SkyGod:
Well first off the 49ers don't need a midget slot receiver.

Austin is not an X or a Z or a slot receiver. Greg Cosell breaks it down perfectly :



You can line Austin up just about anywhere on the field and create mismatches.

Originally posted by SkyGod:
I previously posted in another thread the 40 combine times were broken down frame by frame Patterson & Austin finished in a virtual dead heat.

Austin 4.27 (correction from 4.30)
Patterson 4.30

Both electrifyingly fast!!

Official NFL 40 times are :

Austin 4.34
Patterson 4.42

20 yard shuttle times :

Austin 4.01
Patterson 4.42 (from Pro Day)

Also quit ignoring direct replies to you, and directly debate the counter points others are making in this thread and in the Tavon Austin thread. It seems every time someone counters/debates any point you attempt to make you shy away from backing up what you said or countering any points or facts brought to the table. You have done nothing to prove Patterson is the better pick or better prospect. And please explain how Patterson's lack of production against higher levels of competition last year ? Austin had no trouble producing against the higher levels of competition at WVU.

Originally posted by Sims84:
I agree! We are forgetting, Hunter is coming back and he is a bonified #2 back. With the playmaking ability of LMJ, the 49ers will look at every way possible to get him on the field and I see in the slot quite a bit this upcoming season. There are A LOT of playmakers on this team. It's a great problem to have but what isn't on this team is a guy like Patterson. Crabtree is physical and elusive but not as fast, Boldin is physical but not quick, Davis is fast but not elusive and not as physical as he should be, Patterson is all of the above! I haven't wanted a WR to be a 49er this bad since the draft we got Crabs..as fun as it is to watch Crabs with the ball in his hand, wait until CP gets a feel for the league...ELECTRIFYING

You nailed it totally agree Crabtree Boldin and Davis are not deep threats. Both Crabtree and Davis dropped bombs in the Super Bowl.

Cordarrelle Patterson gives the 49ers a legit elite deep threat wideout to open up the 49ers offense spread the defense and force opposing defenses to defend the entire field. Patterson gets coached up no doubt refining route running is totally coachable with a player like Patterson if I was CK7 or a 49ers coach i would relish the opportunity to work with a kid with Patterson's skill set. 49ers fans will love CK7 to CP84 in the 49ers shinny new stadium i promise you.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by SkyGod:
Well first off the 49ers don't need a midget slot receiver.

Austin is not an X or a Z or a slot receiver. Greg Cosell breaks it down perfectly :



You can line Austin up just about anywhere on the field and create mismatches.

Originally posted by SkyGod:
I previously posted in another thread the 40 combine times were broken down frame by frame Patterson & Austin finished in a virtual dead heat.

Austin 4.27 (correction from 4.30)
Patterson 4.30

Both electrifyingly fast!!

Official NFL 40 times are :

Austin 4.34
Patterson 4.42

20 yard shuttle times :

Austin 4.01
Patterson 4.42 (from Pro Day)

Also quit ignoring direct replies to you, and directly debate the counter points others are making in this thread and in the Tavon Austin thread. It seems every time someone counters/debates any point you attempt to make you shy away from backing up what you said or countering any points or facts brought to the table. You have done nothing to prove Patterson is the better pick or better prospect. And please explain how Patterson's lack of production against higher levels of competition last year ? Austin had no trouble producing against the higher levels of competition at WVU.

Great break down of Tavon Austin really as I call him the JOKER you can line him up anywhere in the field in our Pistol Offense and be a mismatch nightmare. That saying I would be very surprise if he goes in the top 10 those teams are weak up front and have other liabilities. I expect the top 10 to be alot OL & DL being drafted.

Honestly would be really pumped to get either one of these guys if we didn't have to give up too much to get them.. Both would fit in this offense really well

Originally posted by SkyGod:
You nailed it totally agree Crabtree Boldin and Davis are not deep threats. Both Crabtree and Davis dropped bombs in the Super Bowl.

Cordarrelle Patterson gives the 49ers a legit elite deep threat wideout to open up the 49ers offense spread the defense and force opposing defenses to defend the entire field. Patterson gets coached up no doubt refining route running is totally coachable with a player like Patterson if I was CK7 or a 49ers coach i would relish the opportunity to work with a kid with Patterson's skill set. 49ers fans will love CK7 to CP84 in the 49ers shinny new stadium i promise you.

1 - One year of college production doesn't make you elite. Especially when there was a lack of production against higher levels of competition in that one year.

2- Austin would force teams to defend the entire field and then some.

3- I'd bet CK7 or Harbaugh/Roman would love the opportunity to have an incredibly unique offensive weapon like Austin in the fold. Especially given his versatility which Patterson cannot match and the fact that they can move him around anywhere on the field. He's also perhaps the ultimate decoy for a creative offensive mind like Harbaugh, affording great matchups for teammates because opposing DC's will have to account for Austin every time he is on the field.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by SkyGod:
You nailed it totally agree Crabtree Boldin and Davis are not deep threats. Both Crabtree and Davis dropped bombs in the Super Bowl.

Cordarrelle Patterson gives the 49ers a legit elite deep threat wideout to open up the 49ers offense spread the defense and force opposing defenses to defend the entire field. Patterson gets coached up no doubt refining route running is totally coachable with a player like Patterson if I was CK7 or a 49ers coach i would relish the opportunity to work with a kid with Patterson's skill set. 49ers fans will love CK7 to CP84 in the 49ers shinny new stadium i promise you.

1 - One year of college production doesn't make you elite. Especially when there was a lack of production against higher levels of competition in that one year.

2- Austin would force teams to defend the entire field and then some.

3- I'd bet CK7 or Harbaugh/Roman would love the opportunity to have an incredibly unique offensive weapon like Austin in the fold. Especially given his versatility which Patterson cannot match and the fact that they can move him around anywhere on the field. He's also perhaps the ultimate decoy for a creative offensive mind like Harbaugh, affording great matchups for teammates because opposing DC's will have to account for Austin every time he is on the field.

I agree with most of what you said, except for the versatility part.. Patterson is just as versatile as Austin.. He lined up everywhere in college as well

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Great break down of Tavon Austin really as I call him the JOKER you can line him up anywhere in the field in our Pistol Offense and be a mismatch nightmare. That saying I would be very surprise if he goes in the top 10 those teams are weak up front and have other liabilities. I expect the top 10 to be alot OL & DL being drafted.

I think he can go as high as Cleveland at 6, Buffalo at 8 and the Jets at 9. Not a forgone conclusion obviously but it won't shock me, as there is often a shock pick in the first round (Irvin at 15 last year, Ponder at 12 the year prior, Alualu at 10 in 2010 etc). Any of those teams can use an offensive playmaker like Austin and all 3 of those ranked in the bottom top 10 in points scored. I don't think Philly who has Maclin and Jackson will consider Austin that high.

Originally posted by Cooper22:
I agree with most of what you said, except for the versatility part.. Patterson is just as versatile as Austin.. He lined up everywhere in college as well

In the NFL it's a little different and you won't see Patterson lined up in the backfield as a RB or moved around nearly as much as you will with Austin. That small size can work as an advantage behind bigger blockers and also makes you a smaller target to hit or grab a hold of.

Originally posted by KRS-1:
In the NFL it's a little different and you won't see Patterson lined up in the backfield as a RB or moved around nearly as much as you will with Austin. That small size can work as an advantage behind bigger blockers and also makes you a smaller target to hit or grab a hold of.

I see what you're saying but I feel like we already have a guy like that in LMJ.. Patterson can be a different type of versatile, running end arounds, WR screens, etc, while also being a bigger body/target..

Other.... Da'Rick Rogers, the most talented WR in this draft class. He was a star at Tennessee before Patterson. He is also bigger than Patterson..... and just as quick as Austin.

Originally posted by SkyGod:
Patterson could be there at 20th as with every draft depends who falls where and teams needs etc. There are always draft surprises in the 1st round who would have thought Aaron Rodgers would have fallen to the Packers in 2005.

Yes Rams heavily rumored to want the wideout Patterson and or the slot guy Austin with their 16th and or 22nd. They may opt for Austin to replace slot receiver Amendola. Patterson I've seen has been mocked anywhere from as high as 6th to as low as 23rd. 49ers have 14 picks and limited cap room and roster spots. Patterson & Eifert would electrify the offense and add weapons for CK7 and add depth in case of injuries to the WR group again.

Top 3 i would love to come out of the draft with...
Cordarrelle Patterson
Tyler Eifert
John Cyprien

I previously posted in another thread the 40 combine times were broken down frame by frame Patterson & Austin finished in a virtual dead heat.

Austin 4.27 (correction from 4.30)
Patterson 4.30

Both electrifyingly fast!!

Looking at Justin Hunter's film he's big and fast but after the catch he appears to be taken down very easily. He has the potential to be coached up but he's nowhere near the explosive playmaker that Patterson is. No way would i trade up for Hunter over Patterson. ceeflashpee84 has elite skills says he wants to live out his dream of playing in the NFL and developing into a pro bowler. I'd take the chance on this kid by trading up to get him in the 1st round because i believe Patterson can be coached up and will be coached up and become an elite wideout for the 49ers. I think Panthers at 14th or Bears at 20th may be the 49ers best chance for trading up.

I am pretty much with you. I understand the 9ers do have other needs too such as D-line and DBs. But, the way I look at it is this, when you play against a really good team, a team with a lot of offensive weapons, no matter how stout your D is, they are going to score on you and even score on you big. Our O has evolved so much ever since Kaep took over to the point they even carried our D in a number of key games. For example, look at what happened in the Pats game, the NFC game against the Falcons and of course the Super Bowl. What do you do when you are down by 17, down by 22 or when a team scores 28 unanswered points and ties the game ? That is when you realise you need an offense that is so explosive and can score when your back is against the wall. Of course, the idea is best to outscore your opponent from the word go to prevent such situations from happening. In essence, what I am saying is at the end of the day you need to put points on the board and you need to score to win. In that sense I am a little biased towards the O.

But, having said that I am also realistic. I am just not convinced that Baalke and Harbaugh will be that gutsy to go all out to trade up that high to get Patterson. Most mock drafts say DT or DE with the exception of Charles Davis who says Justin Hunter at 31st. I feel Patterson is just too hot a property. But, the other question is even if the 9ers trade up, will they get a WR ? Afterall, they already traded up to the 1st to get a WR last year or will they try to rectify their mistake if Jenkins really turns out to be a bust ? I have my doubt. If the premise is to "win now", then to me WR will be key, the 9ers might even agree, but the problem is they may think there are more than enough decent wideouts to go around in the 2nd round.

So, here is my point of view. I agree with you that Patterson is the best WR in the draft. But, I don't think the 9ers will trade up to get a WR. I think they might trade up, but just not for a wideout. However, the 9ers will still view WR as one of the priorities, so they will definitely get someone decent in the 2nd round. There are still some key names that the analysts believe will go in the 2nd such as Justin Hunter and Kennan Allen. And I believe the 9ers will go for Justin Hunter for that deep ball factor.

Originally posted by SkyGod:
Gil Brandt has been doing some research in his latest mock...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/mock-drafts/gil-brandt/170652

16th Rams - Austin
22nd Rams - Lacy
23rd Vikings - Patterson
Patterson has enormous upside, but because the former junior college player has limited high-level experience, he might not look that good as a rookie. Former Tennessee coach (and current Cowboys receivers coach) Derek Dooley told me that he loves Patterson, but said it's important to remember he hasn't had much experience. He catches the ball very well, which he showed at his pro day.

I read his mock draft, but quite a few others even think the Rams will pick Patterson at 16th, if not the Steelers at 17th (after they lost Mike Wallace). Either way, if the 9ers are serious about Patterson, they really need to trade much further up than your suggestion of Bears at 20th. Your other suggestion of the Panthers at 14th might stand a chance.

I say Marcus Davis or Brandon Kaufman in tha late rounds ... I' not for wasting a high pick on a WR when our defense needs youth N help ...

Originally posted by Rascal:
Many thanks for bringing up the stats !! Before I comment, I would appreciate if you could help me to clarify some of those numbers. You mentioned the following :

Patterson - 12 kick returns for 671 yards
Austin - 97 kick returns for 2,407 yards

Then, you worked out the average yard / kick return to be :

Patterson - 27.96 yards
Austin - 23.93 yards

My question is, shouldn't that be :

Patterson - 52.92 yards
Austin - 24.81 yards

Just in case my Maths is right, that to me is quite a difference with Patterson's average being more than twice as much as Austin. Interestingly, this seems to be in line with your own admission of the average yards / punt return with Patterson also being somewhat higher at 25.25 yards as compared to 12.56 yards for Austin.

If you go by stats alone, both of these figures tell me Patterson is definitely better. OK, I admit I might have been a little excited when I said "far better". The question is should more than twice be classified as being "far better" ? It could be just semantics we are talking about here.

It seems to me your argument is that Patterson hasn't done as much time as Austin if you will. That I can't argue with you, but neither can I agree with you that Austin is better.

As a straight deduction from the stats you presented, you can perhaps say Austin is a proven returner over time simply because he has played longer. But, that doesn't necessarily mean he is better. On the contrary, I can argue based on the same numbers, Patterson looks to be the returner with more potential who can make bigger plays. I would say that would be a fair interpretation. Agree ?

Thanks. Your math is correct. My mistake. I had the the number of kick returns wrong. Patterson had 24, not 12, kick returns.

He played in 12 games. I inserted 12 and I should have put 24.

The averages for Patterson that I put were correct.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/694/1049516/index.html

Your average of 24.81 for Austin is correct. I have no idea what I did there.

I will correct my post.

The corrected kick return averages are:

Patterson--27.96
Austin--24.81

If we go by average kick return, Patterson is better, not far better. So, yes I agree that in your excitement you overstated your case.

If we go by production, Austin is better; he contributed more.

I agree that Patterson has potential to be a very good football player and yes, he has the potential to be a better football player than Austin.

The problem is that some people are claiming he is, not he potentially is, a better player.
That is not a defendable. Austin is a better player.

The critical question for those who would argue that Patterson is a better prospect is his lack of playing time.
He has only played for one year and only in twelve games.

Baalke and company base their evaluation on three major factors: medical condition, character, and production over the career of the player.

Is Patterson a one year wonder? In my estimation, he is not, but that fact that is taller and heavier, and almost as fast as Austin does not mean much.

Originally posted by SkyGod:

Originally posted by Sims84:
I agree! We are forgetting, Hunter is coming back and he is a bonified #2 back. With the playmaking ability of LMJ, the 49ers will look at every way possible to get him on the field and I see in the slot quite a bit this upcoming season. There are A LOT of playmakers on this team. It's a great problem to have but what isn't on this team is a guy like Patterson. Crabtree is physical and elusive but not as fast, Boldin is physical but not quick, Davis is fast but not elusive and not as physical as he should be, Patterson is all of the above! I haven't wanted a WR to be a 49er this bad since the draft we got Crabs..as fun as it is to watch Crabs with the ball in his hand, wait until CP gets a feel for the league...ELECTRIFYING

You nailed it totally agree Crabtree Boldin and Davis are not deep threats. Both Crabtree and Davis dropped bombs in the Super Bowl.

Cordarrelle Patterson gives the 49ers a legit elite deep threat wideout to open up the 49ers offense spread the defense and force opposing defenses to defend the entire field. Patterson gets coached up no doubt refining route running is totally coachable with a player like Patterson if I was CK7 or a 49ers coach i would relish the opportunity to work with a kid with Patterson's skill set. 49ers fans will love CK7 to CP84 in the 49ers shinny new stadium i promise you.

That is exactly what I have been saying all along as well. The only question is whether 9ers will be wiling to trade that high to get him which I doubt.