Tavon Austin vs Cordarelle Patterson

Originally posted by Rascal:
Sorry, I am confused, Mario is not a slot receiver ? If he isn't, how would you classify him then ?

Kyle is still young and was just starting to improve after Kaep took control under center, but then needless to say the ACL came.

I would argue both Mario and Kyle were just starting to develop some great chemistry with Kaep, but then too bad both went down.

Then, there are still Jenkins (granted he is still not ready) and Chad Hall who is definitely a slot receiver. Ricardo Lockette on the other hand is probably more of deep threat which we will have to wait and see.

On top of that, you still have Vernon who plays in the middle. Plus, all our RBs, Frank, Kendall and LaMike all contribute in the passing game.

Isn't that enough ?

But, what we don't have is a legit deep guy. Crab might play on the outside, but he is not a prototypical deep guy for us. May be I should clarify myself, when I say deep, I mean 50 yards type throws. Kaep had made quite a number of such attempts to Randy Moss, but by and large they didn't quite connect. To me, that is the guy we badly need when we all know how explosive Kaep can be. That guy can probably wing it for 70 yards without breaking a sweat.

So, all in all, I am with you on the need to improve on the receiving corp, only that we might be after different types of guys. For me, I am quite single-minded in wanting a deep guy. You seem far more keen on a small guy for the middle. Bottomline, we will definitely need more playmakers especially given how both the Seahawks and Falcons have improved their rosters with all their signings.

From what I remember, Manningham generally lines up on the outside, not in the slot.

But, even if he plays the slot, the chances of him being ready to before mid season are slim at best.

So, he can not realistically counted as much of a contributor, on the outside or in the slot, next year.

The only slot receivers I see on the roster are Kyle Williams and Chad Hall.
I do not how to place Jenkins.

You claim was we were stacked at slot receiver.

How we use Vernon Davis and our running backs are not relevant to the validity of your claim.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by blm7754:

Other.... Da'Rick Rogers, the most talented WR in this draft class. He was a star at Tennessee before Patterson. He is also bigger than Patterson..... and just as quick as Austin.

Nobody in the draft its just as quick as Austin.

Very true but there is also isn't anybody in the draft that is bringing EVERYTHING to the table like Patterson

Big body
Fast
Quick
Elusive
Power
Versatile
Complete route tree in a Pro style offense

Austin has the majority of those, but definitely not all..

Originally posted by blm7754:

Other.... Da'Rick Rogers, the most talented WR in this draft class. He was a star at Tennessee before Patterson. He is also bigger than Patterson..... and just as quick as Austin.

Rogers presents better value because of his talent level and the fact that he will be there in second without us having to trade a lot of picks to get him like we would for Patterson but just because Da'rick was a star "before Patterson", doesn't mean a thing. They are both extremely talented but who would you honestly rather see with the ball in their hands? The answer is hands down, Patterson. He can run through you just like Rogers but his change of direction is unmatched by Rogers as is his elusiveness

Originally posted by buck:
Thanks. Your math is correct. My mistake. I had the the number of kick returns wrong. Patterson had 24, not 12, kick returns.

He played in 12 games. I inserted 12 and I should have put 24.

The averages for Patterson that I put were correct.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/player/694/1049516/index.html

Your average of 24.81 for Austin is correct. I have no idea what I did there.

I will correct my post.

The corrected kick return averages are:

Patterson--27.96
Austin--24.81

If we go by average kick return, Patterson is better, not far better. So, yes I agree that in your excitement you overstated your case.

If we go by production, Austin is better; he contributed more.

I agree that Patterson has potential to be a very good football player and yes, he has the potential to be a better football player than Austin.

The problem is that some people are claiming he is, not he potentially is, a better player.
That is not a defendable. Austin is a better player.

The critical question for those who would argue that Patterson is a better prospect is his lack of playing time.
He has only played for one year and only in twelve games.

Baalke and company base their evaluation on three major factors: medical condition, character, and production over the career of the player.

Is Patterson a one year wonder? In my estimation, he is not, but that fact that is taller and heavier, and almost as fast as Austin does not mean much.

Before you even analyse the evaluation factors of Baalke, perhaps the question you need to ask first is what type of receiver he believes the 9ers need. Like I have been saying all along, I believe the 9ers are lacking a legit deep threat wideout. And to be a deep threat guy, you might not exactly need to be 6"3", but you certainly can't be 5'8". Unless you are telling me the 9ers feel they need yet another slot receiver, then I might not argue with you, but as it stands we have plenty of slot guys.

Originally posted by buck:
From what I remember, Manningham generally lines up on the outside, not in the slot.

But, even if he plays the slot, the chances of him being ready to before mid season are slim at best.

So, he can not realistically counted as much of a contributor, on the outside or in the slot, next year.

The only slot receivers I see on the roster are Kyle Williams and Chad Hall.
I do not how to place Jenkins.

You claim was we were stacked at slot receiver.

How we use Vernon Davis and our running backs are not relevant to the validity of your claim.

Wait a minute, so TEs and RBs are not part of the receiving corp ?! Just because they are not branded as a "receiver" doesn't mean they don't contribute in the slot. Case in point you don't need me to tell you how much do we rely on Vernon right ?

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:
I say Marcus Davis or Brandon Kaufman in tha late rounds ... I' not for wasting a high pick on a WR when our defense needs youth N help ...

I am just surprised that hardly anyone has mentioned Marcus Davis. He is tall, big and fast and can play the deep ball. He could just be that dark horse.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by tatdwolf49:

I say Marcus Davis or Brandon Kaufman in tha late rounds ... I' not for wasting a high pick on a WR when our defense needs youth N help ...

I am just surprised that hardly anyone has mentioned Marcus Davis. He is tall, big and fast and can play the deep ball. He could just be that dark horse.

Both Davis N Kaufman have been my favorites we gotta remember its not all about first round players its about tha player himself... I think given tha chance Kaufman will be tha better of tha two ...

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Austin is not an X or a Z or a slot receiver. Greg Cosell breaks it down perfectly :



You can line Austin up just about anywhere on the field and create mismatches.

Originally posted by SkyGod:
I previously posted in another thread the 40 combine times were broken down frame by frame Patterson & Austin finished in a virtual dead heat.

Austin 4.27 (correction from 4.30)
Patterson 4.30

Both electrifyingly fast!!

Official NFL 40 times are :

Austin 4.34
Patterson 4.42

20 yard shuttle times :

Austin 4.01
Patterson 4.42 (from Pro Day)

Also quit ignoring direct replies to you, and directly debate the counter points others are making in this thread and in the Tavon Austin thread. It seems every time someone counters/debates any point you attempt to make you shy away from backing up what you said or countering any points or facts brought to the table. You have done nothing to prove Patterson is the better pick or better prospect. And please explain how Patterson's lack of production against higher levels of competition last year ? Austin had no trouble producing against the higher levels of competition at WVU.

Debating's not his thing, he just regularly throws out unsupported statements and then ignores any comments to the contrary pretty much.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Wait a minute, so TEs and RBs are not part of the receiving corp ?! Just because they are not branded as a "receiver" doesn't mean they don't contribute in the slot. Case in point you don't need me to tell you how much do we rely on Vernon right ?

No, you wait a minute.

You said we are stacked at slot receiver.
I disagree with that claim. I do not think that we are stacked at slot receiver.

Vernon Davis is a tight end, not a slot receiver. Running backs are not slot receivers.

You did not mention receiving corps in your original claim.

Are you now saying, that our receiving corps are stacked?

Originally posted by blm7754:
Other.... Da'Rick Rogers, the most talented WR in this draft class. He was a star at Tennessee before Patterson. He is also bigger than Patterson..... and just as quick as Austin.

No...just no. And I like Rogers A LOT, but he's not the quickest out there. He's got decent speed for a bigger WR and closely reminds me of Julio Jones, or a bigger, quicker version of Anquan Boldin. Just a very physical guy, the type that's open even when he's not open, will get up to snag a pass, blocks his ass off, hard to jam at the line of scrimmage, will simply overwhelm smaller defensivebacks with his physicality.

Originally posted by 49ers808:
Soooo Patterson is by far better based on height and weight. ...not production? That is funny

Too bad GM's and NFL scouts don't laugh when it comes to height and weight. That being said, I've always loved Austin. He is so scary good that I would draft him just so we don't have to face someone like that. But I still think Patterson has the higher floor and his ceiling is just as high as Austin's

Originally posted by Rascal:
Before you even analyse the evaluation factors of Baalke, perhaps the question you need to ask first is what type of receiver he believes the 9ers need. Like I have been saying all along, I believe the 9ers are lacking a legit deep threat wideout. And to be a deep threat guy, you might not exactly need to be 6"3", but you certainly can't be 5'8". Unless you are telling me the 9ers feel they need yet another slot receiver, then I might not argue with you, but as it stands we have plenty of slot guys.

Just because a receiver isn't 6'4" doesn't make them "a slot guy." Tavon Austin is not a "slot guy" unless you're redefining it to refer to any WR under 5'10".

Originally posted by Rascal:
Before you even analyse the evaluation factors of Baalke, perhaps the question you need to ask first is what type of receiver he believes the 9ers need. Like I have been saying all along, I believe the 9ers are lacking a legit deep threat wideout. And to be a deep threat guy, you might not exactly need to be 6"3", but you certainly can't be 5'8". Unless you are telling me the 9ers feel they need yet another slot receiver, then I might not argue with you, but as it stands we have plenty of slot guys.

Baalke, himself, has listed those as the key factors in the evaluation of players.

I have no idea what type of wide receiver Baalke thinks the team needs.

I have not heard him say anything about the type of wide receivers the team needs. Have you?

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Before you even analyse the evaluation factors of Baalke, perhaps the question you need to ask first is what type of receiver he believes the 9ers need. Like I have been saying all along, I believe the 9ers are lacking a legit deep threat wideout. And to be a deep threat guy, you might not exactly need to be 6"3", but you certainly can't be 5'8". Unless you are telling me the 9ers feel they need yet another slot receiver, then I might not argue with you, but as it stands we have plenty of slot guys.

Baalke, himself, has listed those as the key factors in the evaluation of players.

I have no idea what type of wide receiver Baalke thinks the team needs.

I have not heard him say anything about the type of wide receivers the team needs. Have you?

We have not heard what type of player he likes but Austin is coming for a pre-draft visit for a reason. As far as his height it shouldn't be a concern plenty of WRS that have been successful in offenses like the pistol a dynamic playmaker of his ability does not come often.

Just have a random felling they may not pan out in the NFL. How many explosive Wideouts have come out of college only to disappoint. Austin was a stud in college but he's small. How many little guys have come out of college and made an impact within the last 4 yrs? Only 1 that I can think of. Harvin.

I think K. Allen out of Cal could be the sleeper WR. He's probably the most polished route runner and is a big body target