Tavon Austin vs Cordarelle Patterson

Originally posted by Rascal:
I don't disagree with that especially with his amazing return game. But, to get Patterson, the 9ers will need to go all out to be able to get it done. It is pretty much guaranteed that he will be gone by the 10th pick. You have to be all in with such a move, is like mortaging your house on it.

Actually, I think he'll be around in the mid teens at least

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Okay, why do you think you need big receivers to face off against big cornerbacks? Other than Brandon Marshall, Seattle shut down virtually every "big" receiver they faced, including Calvin Johnson. I think that having a big target is nice for the redzone, but that could also be a tight-end. I'm not a believer in attacking strength with strength. Browner ofr example is HUGE, f**king massive for a cornerback, doesn't have the greatest hips nor agility however, so do you think the tougher matchup for him is a bigger,more physical but slower receiver, or a smaller jitterbug that he simply can't stay with due to the receivers' quickness? You beat size with speed, get receivers that go places where the defensive back can't get to as quickly and struggle to keep up with them.

I think you need both, and I would be happy with adding a big, physical target like a Tyler Eifert or Da'Rick Rogers, I would also be psyched about adding a guy like Tavon Austin who is a matchup nightmare, someone you can move around a lot, confuse defenses with, and a guy that bigger cornerbacks will struggle to stay with due to his agility and quickness.

Yes, that is because the Seahawks have the best secondary in the league now. But, tell me what happened in the Falcons game ? Even they couldn't stop Roddy White and Julio Jones. There is a reason for it. Jitterbugs are great for the slot, but big physical receivers are really hard to stop. Like in the Super Bowl, even when Anquan was fully jammed up by Carlos, he still couldn't take the ball out of his hands due to that height and strength advantage.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Yes, that is because the Seahawks have the best secondary in the league now. But, tell me what happened in the Falcons game ? Even they couldn't stop Roddy White and Julio Jones. There is a reason for it. Jitterbugs are great for the slot, but big physical receivers are really hard to stop. Like in the Super Bowl, even when Anquan was fully jammed up by Carlos, he still couldn't take the ball out of his hands due to that height and strength advantage.

Yet Torrey Smith went almost for 200 yards against the Patriots in the regular season. The Ravens wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the downfield abilities of Smith and Jones. You need a combination of both, the 49ers have toughness and physicality with Crabtree and Boldin, they truly do need someone explosive to stretch the field, especially with AJ Jenkins appearing to be questionable at best.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SkyGod:

Tavon Austin + 5 inches + 45lbs = Cordarrelle Patterson.

Seriously Austin fans, Cordarrelle Patterson is a much bigger version of Tavon Austin.

Patterson is just as fast just as explosive is also a special playmaker a whole lot bigger than Austin and is the more valuable wideout.

6'2 216lb wideout Patterson has a far better chance at succeeding in the NFL than the diminutive 5-9 174lb slot player Austin.

Depends how the draft plays out and who falls but there may also be more of a chance to get Patterson and give up less.

Patterson by far is the better pick.

This is absurd beyond belief. Patterson has great measurables and nice potential, but he just as easily be a major bust. He's had one season on his resume....one. He's very raw as a route runner and doesn't have the most reliable hands where Austin has been tremendously productive for 3 seasons, has far superior hands and is a much better route runner. Patterson also is nowhere near explosive as Austin. Patterson is a guy with good upside that you draft and hope he becomes a good player, Austin is a guy with an extensive resume AND tremendous measurables to be a productive player in the NFL.

This! Last year we took a receiver (Jenkins) that was far more polished than Patterson and even when our receiver depth was beat to crap, still could barely crack the field. Now somebody wants ANOTHER receiver that is far more green and far less develped than the guy that couldn't crack the line up last year or atleast a decent amount of playing time... . Forget that, if we go receiver again this year than I want somebody that has a chance to produce. See Phoenix's argument.

If we go WR again we are going to start to look like lions of the NFC west

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Or not. Can't block...won't block, body catcher, not a great route runner, built like an NBA point guard...meh. I would happily take Da'Rick Rogers over him.

Patterson is more of a body catcher, but not Justin Hunter.

i like alot of what hunter could bring to the niners...a tall receiver, an outside receiver, a speed receiver...long term hed be a great pick i believe...but he would probably have the same problem aj jenkins had as a far as making a contribtion as a rookie--he isnt very strong and would need time to get stronger before makinga contribution

Originally posted by Wheelz29:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SkyGod:
Tavon Austin + 5 inches + 45lbs = Cordarrelle Patterson.

Seriously Austin fans, Cordarrelle Patterson is a much bigger version of Tavon Austin.

Patterson is just as fast just as explosive is also a special playmaker a whole lot bigger than Austin and is the more valuable wideout.

6'2 216lb wideout Patterson has a far better chance at succeeding in the NFL than the diminutive 5-9 174lb slot player Austin.

Depends how the draft plays out and who falls but there may also be more of a chance to get Patterson and give up less.

Patterson by far is the better pick.

This is absurd beyond belief. Patterson has great measurables and nice potential, but he just as easily be a major bust. He's had one season on his resume....one. He's very raw as a route runner and doesn't have the most reliable hands where Austin has been tremendously productive for 3 seasons, has far superior hands and is a much better route runner. Patterson also is nowhere near explosive as Austin. Patterson is a guy with good upside that you draft and hope he becomes a good player, Austin is a guy with an extensive resume AND tremendous measurables to be a productive player in the NFL.

This! Last year we took a receiver (Jenkins) that was far more polished than Patterson and even when our receiver depth was beat to crap, still could barely crack the field. Now somebody wants ANOTHER receiver that is far more green and far less develped than the guy that couldn't crack the line up last year or atleast a decent amount of playing time... . Forget that, if we go receiver again this year than I want somebody that has a chance to produce. See Phoenix's argument.

If we go WR again we are going to start to look like lions of the NFC west

Unlike the lions at that time, we have the real opportunity to take the best player that we feel is available at any time. Thats a perk when you have a super bowl contending roster... . Also ask yourself what they would have said had they thought that way and passed up Calvin Johnson? Am I saying that Tavon Austin is as good as Calvin Johnson, heck no! But Austin could be a dynamic playmaker used in a different way for this team, in a different mold other than Calvin Johnson.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Yet Torrey Smith went almost for 200 yards against the Patriots in the regular season. The Ravens wouldn't have gotten anywhere without the downfield abilities of Smith and Jones. You need a combination of both, the 49ers have toughness and physicality with Crabtree and Boldin, they truly do need someone explosive to stretch the field, especially with AJ Jenkins appearing to be questionable at best.

Absolutely. You do need both, but we are stacked with slot guys already. What we don't have is a Torrey Smith, a Julio Jones type guy who can play the deep ball. And to me, for deep ball guys, they need to be tall and physical cos very often they will need to take the top off DBs. Right now, we don't really have a guy like that. Anquan can go up top, but he is not fast enough as a burner. If we can get that deep threat guy, our receiving corp will be complete.

Originally posted by hofer36:
i like alot of what hunter could bring to the niners...a tall receiver, an outside receiver, a speed receiver...long term hed be a great pick i believe...but he would probably have the same problem aj jenkins had as a far as making a contribtion as a rookie--he isnt very strong and would need time to get stronger before makinga contribution

Getting stronger is not the issue, Jenkins' problem was he didn't even know the playbook. The guy didn't even know where to line up, remember the Cards game at the end of the regular season ? There is absolutely no excuse for that, it tells is he is just lazy cos he had a whole season to learn it. I don't expect every rookie wideout to be like that. If Justin Hunter can work hard and spend extra time with Kaep to build up the chemistry, I think only good things can come from it. As for A.J., I am kind of done with him. I will give him this training camp and the preseason games to prove himself. Frankly, I am far more interested in what Ricardo Lockette can do. For one, he definitely has the physical atributes and is fast, plus he is capable to play the deep ball too.

Originally posted by Rascal:
Then, if you want to talk about diversity of skills such as special teams, Cordarrelle Patterson has to be by far the better returner. This guy is not just fast, but he is extremely elusive and shifty.

Patterson has to be the far better returner.

Not sure you are right on this. Depends on how you want to determine better.

One possibility is to look at production.

Patterson had 24 kick returns for 671 yards and one touchdown. (corrected)
Austin had 97 kick returns for 2,407 yards and 4 touchdowns.

Cordarrelle Patterson had 4 punt returns for 101 yards and 1 touchdown.
Tavon Austin had 34 punt returns for 433 yards and 1 touchdown.

These numbers do not support your assertion that Patterson has to be a far better returner.
Not sure that these numbers even support the contention that Patterson is a better returner.

Another way to look at the return game is to look at average per return.

Patterson averaged 27.96 yards per kick return.
Austin averaged 24.81 yards per kick return. (corrected)

Still not far better.

Patterson averaged 25.25 yards per punt return.
Austin averaged 12.56 yards per punt return.
Patterson clearly has a far better average than Austin.

The problem is that he only had 4 punt returns.
He did not have enough returns to qualify for the national rankings.

Ricardo Lockette has averaged 52.5 yards per reception.
But, he has only had 2 receptions in his career.

All in all, I would have to say Patterson is clearly not a far better returner than Austin.

I would argue that Austin has proven to be a more productive returner.

Originally posted by Wheelz29:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SkyGod:
Tavon Austin + 5 inches + 45lbs = Cordarrelle Patterson.

Seriously Austin fans, Cordarrelle Patterson is a much bigger version of Tavon Austin.

Patterson is just as fast just as explosive is also a special playmaker a whole lot bigger than Austin and is the more valuable wideout.

6'2 216lb wideout Patterson has a far better chance at succeeding in the NFL than the diminutive 5-9 174lb slot player Austin.

Depends how the draft plays out and who falls but there may also be more of a chance to get Patterson and give up less.

Patterson by far is the better pick.

This is absurd beyond belief. Patterson has great measurables and nice potential, but he just as easily be a major bust. He's had one season on his resume....one. He's very raw as a route runner and doesn't have the most reliable hands where Austin has been tremendously productive for 3 seasons, has far superior hands and is a much better route runner. Patterson also is nowhere near explosive as Austin. Patterson is a guy with good upside that you draft and hope he becomes a good player, Austin is a guy with an extensive resume AND tremendous measurables to be a productive player in the NFL.

This! Last year we took a receiver (Jenkins) that was far more polished than Patterson and even when our receiver depth was beat to crap, still could barely crack the field. Now somebody wants ANOTHER receiver that is far more green and far less develped than the guy that couldn't crack the line up last year or atleast a decent amount of playing time... . Forget that, if we go receiver again this year than I want somebody that has a chance to produce. See Phoenix's argument.

If we go WR again we are going to start to look like lions of the NFC west

No. Taking a wide receiver in the first two times will not make us look like the Lions---think we would have to do it three or four times in a row.

Originally posted by SkyGod:

Tavon Austin + 5 inches + 45lbs = Cordarrelle Patterson.

Seriously Austin fans, Cordarrelle Patterson is a much bigger version of Tavon Austin.

Patterson is just as fast just as explosive is also a special playmaker a whole lot bigger than Austin and is the more valuable wideout.

6'2 216lb wideout Patterson has a far better chance at succeeding in the NFL than the diminutive 5-9 174lb slot player Austin.

Depends how the draft plays out and who falls but there may also be more of a chance to get Patterson and give up less.

Patterson by far is the better pick.

Soooo Patterson is by far better based on height and weight. ...not production? That is funny

Originally posted by Rascal:
Absolutely. You do need both, but we are stacked with slot guys already. What we don't have is a Torrey Smith, a Julio Jones type guy who can play the deep ball. And to me, for deep ball guys, they need to be tall and physical cos very often they will need to take the top off DBs. Right now, we don't really have a guy like that. Anquan can go up top, but he is not fast enough as a burner. If we can get that deep threat guy, our receiving corp will be complete.

Who exactly are these slot receivers stacking our roster?

Manningham is not a slot receiver, and he will be lucky to play next year.

Not sure that Jenkins is a slot receiver, but he might be.

Kyle Williams is a slot receiver, his production over the last three years has been pretty minimal.

In my estimation, our receiving corps needs to be strengthened.

Originally posted by buck:
Who exactly are these slot receivers stacking our roster?

Manningham is not a slot receiver, and he will be lucky to play next year.

Not sure that Jenkins is a slot receiver, but he might be.

Kyle Williams is a slot receiver, his production over the last three years has been pretty minimal.

In my estimation, our receiving corps needs to be strengthened.

Considering that we used Delanie on 56% of plays last year I'm not sure how important a slot receiver is. We're a balanced football team.

I wouldn't classify Jackson or Harvin as a slot receiver though so I'm not hating on Austin I just don't see the need for either.

I will be really upset if we invest another first round pick on another WR, and be even more upset if we trade up to get one.

We have two first round picks invested there already with crabtree and Jenkins, plus Boldin, Manningham, We have other areas on the team where the use of a first round pick will benefit us more.

Having said that, if i had to choose between one of the two, for our roster currently, it would probably be austin, although his size scares the s**t out of me

We're gonna be a more run based team this year.. Kendal hunter will be back and our runnig game will be best in the league. Alex got us to the NFC champ game with Brett swain