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Why do the Niners sit and watch the league get better?

Originally posted by mug0mug:
I don't think anyone says don't utilize FA, but there's a time, a place, and a limit. I do believe that the draft is where you really build your team as, barring the very rare FA steal, it is really the only way you can get and develop longterm contributers for a better than market price.

We actually have made FA moves recently, and for the most part, they've been pretty good moves, but people are upset that we overpaid for Clements (often not understanding his contract), or upset that we overpaid for B. Jones (maybe, but he did look nice until his injury).

At the same time people seem to forget that we traded Rashaun Woods for Walt Harris, two underperformers, but we ended up with a pro-bowler and they ended up with nothing. We brought on Justin Smith, a pro-bowler who has been awesome for us. We brought on Takeo Spikes who has been nice for us as well. Abrayou Franklin, Isaac Bruce, Larry Allen, among others, have also been instrumental.

But you also have the likes of Dontarrious Thomas, Jonas Jennings, Deshaun Foster, Tully-Banta-Cain (who wasn't so bad and is a quality player that didn't fit), and others, who don't catch on. That's a pretty good list as far as recent failed FA acquisitions go...which might be part of the problem here where it can appear that if you sign FA's, they do well. In that regard, most will agree that we've done well in FA. But if you look at other teams who did sign the big names, it's not nearly the same story. Every year players flow from team to team, and the success rate is not high. We've made some moves, less than some others, but they need to be the right moves if you want constant improvement. Desperation rarely provides for a wise decision.

I'm not saying the F.O. has been perfect, but free agency is a complicated animal and what seems like an no-brainer is often I horribly waste of not only money, but time. Some FA moves we have, or haven't, made may have been the wrong ones, but by simply upping the ante to just make more moves, we we invariably get some more good players (at a high price), but will get loads of players who don't catch on, and every time we do so we use up more money and, more importantly as fans, more time, rather than draft someone who suits us well and can be developed, form a dedication to our team, and play for us for longer and less.

There is nothing here to disagree with. I just think that some on this board misrepresent the views of others by presenting an extreme version of the actual position.
Originally posted by Dominate:
Originally posted by bracus:
Basically for the people who misunderstood me. I'm not saying spend a bunch of money on random free agents. This free agency sucked, I'm glad but this is the position I see us in. Tell me if this sounds familiar.

We have a really good defense, a future stud WR in crabs. A really good running back. Were just a QB away.

Minnesota anybody????

I dont know what games you are watching but its clear you are not watching Niner games. You could bring in Peyton Manning and it wouldnt make a world of difference with our Oline. We are an Oline away from showing what Alex can really do.

now that is an Alexecuse...and I don't like saying that word..hell I think I spelled it wrong.

I hear that all the time....apparently some believe Alex is the same level as Payton or Brady or any top level QB.....or they just believe our OLINE is THAT horribly bad..

we lost most of our games because of turnovers by our QBs or lack of moving the chains...but in Alex's case Turnovers...

if you go back and watch every single INT....you will notice that about 90 percent of those plays, Alex had time to throw...but just made a horrible throw or just a late throw....or the receivers didn't catch his *accurate* passes...and they got tipped up...

so no, apparently you weren't watching these 9er games you are talking about.

I'm not saying our Oline is AllPro....but you can't expect them to be perfect...and they were hindered early in the season with predictable play calling.

again, anyone....look back at all of Alex's INTs.

[ Edited by Afrikan on Mar 26, 2010 at 21:52:33 ]
Guys, no way am I saying break the the bank or morgage our future for McNabb at all. The 9ers can get him for a 2nd round pick, at 33yrs old and not named Manning or Brady he's not going to cost us a ton of money. What if Alex has a good year what's that gonna cost us next yr. Let me Let me upgrade ya.
oh, snap, this thread really challenges my stance that the "Randy Moss is better than Jerry Rice" thread is the Worst Thread of All Time.

Are we in the midst of a Renaissance of Awful, No Good, Time-Wasting Threads, or is this just an average offseason?

I feel like we are in special times, my friends. Special, inane times. The Age of Asininity.
Originally posted by jonr422000:
Guys, no way am I saying break the the bank or morgage our future for McNabb at all. The 9ers can get him for a 2nd round pick, at 33yrs old and not named Manning or Brady he's not going to cost us a ton of money. What if Alex has a good year what's that gonna cost us next yr. Let me Let me upgrade ya.

apparently they are only asking for a 3rd pick now.

imo, I don't like McNabb....but he has shown more than Alex and he would make us into a playoff team.....but I don't trust him......but sadly I trust him more than Alex....much more.

if we did get McNabb...Singletary better get on his ARSE and make sure he plays smart and not careless in big games.....hopefully he can play how Farve played for the Packers a few years ago, when the offense went through rb Ryan Grant.... Farve played like I never seen him play before. Efficient.
Originally posted by bracus:
It seems like anytime a big name player is available they just wanna rely on the damn draft. I'll use McNabb for example. Lets say not only do we not try to sign him, what if he goes to the damn Tardinals? McNabb is kryptonite to our Superman. Dude just lights us up every time we play him. MM Don't give us this we owe it to Alex to start him, last I say we paid him millions to sit on the bench. I just don't get this F.O.

This isn't the first time either (Randy Moss, Braylon Edwards, Pick for Sanchez, Brett Favre)

Not adding to the McNabb talk, just using this as an example.

McNabb is only gonna play for a team that runs the west coast offense period
Originally posted by jonr422000:
Guys, no way am I saying break the the bank or morgage our future for McNabb at all. The 9ers can get him for a 2nd round pick, at 33yrs old and not named Manning or Brady he's not going to cost us a ton of money. What if Alex has a good year what's that gonna cost us next yr. Let me Let me upgrade ya.

I totally get what your saying, and I will say that I think McNabb has been significantly, and still is, better than Alex Smith. The problem is, if Alex can be an asset at QB, he provides a 10 year solution at the most important position, while McNabb provides a 1-3 year solution.

QB's don't play to 40 as Favre has. He is the exception, not the rule. In reality, McNabb will cost a lot of money (he is most certainly not a discount FA prospect), and will cost a 2nd round pick (at best). If you think we are at a position where we can replace one player to possibly take us from a competitive team to a championship team, than I understand why you want McNabb (system issues etc aside), but realize that it would come at the cost of entirely eliminating the possibility of a decade long solution, increasing the cap (given it doesn't exist this year), and removing another likely contributor (rnd 2 pick). All of that for someone that might be able to make the adjustment and make us better in the very short term.

[ Edited by mug0mug on Mar 26, 2010 at 22:15:54 ]
The niners are taking the most passive approach to free agency in years. I am one that truly believes if you are not getting better , than you are getting worse. The Niners have done very little to get better this offseason so far. There are many free agents that can help improve this team both restricted and unrestricted. Our OL is a problem, we all know that but what have they done to improve it so far? They brought in Pitts who is racking up some frequent flyer miles but no one else. Why? There were some pretty good lineman available and there are also some still out there that can help the Niners. The niners need to do something because if everyone is moving forward and the niners stand still. They will end up in the back of the line. Arizona and Seattle are not just gonna roll over and hand the division to us just because we think its our turn!
Originally posted by E-49er:
The niners are taking the most passive approach to free agency in years. I am one that truly believes if you are not getting better , than you are getting worse. The Niners have done very little to get better this offseason so far. There are many free agents that can help improve this team both restricted and unrestricted. Our OL is a problem, we all know that but what have they done to improve it so far? They brought in Pitts who is racking up some frequent flyer miles but no one else. Why? There were some pretty good lineman available and there are also some still out there that can help the Niners. The niners need to do something because if everyone is moving forward and the niners stand still. They will end up in the back of the line. Arizona and Seattle are not just gonna roll over and hand the division to us just because we think its our turn!

Everyone (other than the Bears b/c they don't have any 1st or 2nd round picks) are taking a more passive approach than normal. I just don't see where everyone is getting so much better. At the same time, I don't agree that personnel moves are the only way to get better. Consistency and cohesion with mild personnel infusions have proven to be greater dictators of progress toward success than anything else. But still, what great Olineman were there that we passed on?

[ Edited by mug0mug on Mar 26, 2010 at 22:21:47 ]
Originally posted by jonr422000:
Ok first of all Mcnabb could run our offence with ease. The West Coast Offence comes run the offence we run now. The important thing about offences is the verbage and what it means the west coast is the hardest, and no two teams use the same verbage. We could get McNabb for a 2nd rounder and would not have to give him a tone of money to keep him (by the way Alex makes good money). This would also be the best thing for Nate Davis he can sit 2 or 3 yrs and learn from a real QB kinda like what happened in Green Bay. With McNabb we go from playoff hopefuls to SB contenders

Uh . . . that's pure fiction right there.
Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by jonr422000:
Ok first of all Mcnabb could run our offence with ease. The West Coast Offence comes run the offence we run now. The important thing about offences is the verbage and what it means the west coast is the hardest, and no two teams use the same verbage. We could get McNabb for a 2nd rounder and would not have to give him a tone of money to keep him (by the way Alex makes good money). This would also be the best thing for Nate Davis he can sit 2 or 3 yrs and learn from a real QB kinda like what happened in Green Bay. With McNabb we go from playoff hopefuls to SB contenders

Uh . . . that's pure fiction right there.

no, its true. I can't imagine we would get away with giving him a "tone" of money. He'd probably want the real thing.
Explain this last year we went after Kurt Warner (didn't we offer him 25m) From there we name Shaun Hill the starter and the franchise saver. OOps that didn't work but Alex was never out of the picture. Now everybody is so impressed with Alexe's progress and is going to once again be the next great 9er QB. This all in what 11-12months. We have a chance to get a difference maker and are not even interested. I'm glad I didn't get that Shaun Hill jersey for X-Mas
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Dominate:
Originally posted by bracus:
Basically for the people who misunderstood me. I'm not saying spend a bunch of money on random free agents. This free agency sucked, I'm glad but this is the position I see us in. Tell me if this sounds familiar.

We have a really good defense, a future stud WR in crabs. A really good running back. Were just a QB away.

Minnesota anybody????

I dont know what games you are watching but its clear you are not watching Niner games. You could bring in Peyton Manning and it wouldnt make a world of difference with our Oline. We are an Oline away from showing what Alex can really do.

now that is an Alexecuse...and I don't like saying that word..hell I think I spelled it wrong.

I hear that all the time....apparently some believe Alex is the same level as Payton or Brady or any top level QB.....or they just believe our OLINE is THAT horribly bad..

we lost most of our games because of turnovers by our QBs or lack of moving the chains...but in Alex's case Turnovers...

if you go back and watch every single INT....you will notice that about 90 percent of those plays, Alex had time to throw...but just made a horrible throw or just a late throw....or the receivers didn't catch his *accurate* passes...and they got tipped up...

so no, apparently you weren't watching these 9er games you are talking about.

I'm not saying our Oline is AllPro....but you can't expect them to be perfect...and they were hindered early in the season with predictable play calling.

again, anyone....look back at all of Alex's INTs.

Well said. This season can't get here soon enough to end this once and for all.
Originally posted by jonr422000:
Explain this last year we went after Kurt Warner (didn't we offer him 25m) From there we name Shaun Hill the starter and the franchise saver. OOps that didn't work but Alex was never out of the picture. Now everybody is so impressed with Alexe's progress and is going to once again be the next great 9er QB. This all in what 11-12months. We have a chance to get a difference maker and are not even interested. I'm glad I didn't get that Shaun Hill jersey for X-Mas

He became the starter; very few thought he was a franchise saver, much less a long term solution. Alex Smith is still young and so still provides an opportunity for a long term solution.

We went after Kurt Warner not because he was the final piece we needed, but because he was the key piece that our primary opponents needed. It's a huge difference. He had double value.

That said, if we could somehow have McNabb for an Alex contract, he'd be on our team already, but he costs at least our 2nd and a huge contract for a fleeting fill-in. It's just not worth it.

[ Edited by mug0mug on Mar 26, 2010 at 23:00:47 ]
Originally posted by jprchrds:
Originally posted by bracus:
It seems like anytime a big name player is available they just wanna rely on the damn draft. I'll use McNabb for example. Lets say not only do we not try to sign him, what if he goes to the damn Tardinals? McNabb is kryptonite to our Superman. Dude just lights us up every time we play him. MM Don't give us this we owe it to Alex to start him, last I say we paid him millions to sit on the bench. I just don't get this F.O.

This isn't the first time either (Randy Moss, Braylon Edwards, Pick for Sanchez, Brett Favre)

Not adding to the McNabb talk, just using this as an example.

McNabb is only gonna play for a team that runs the west coast offense period

Cause he's gonna say " Hey GM, Don't take that 2nd rnd pick, take that 3rd rnder from the other team. They run a WCO" lol
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