Originally posted by FreddyG:
Originally posted by andes14:
One more thing just about the Juan Gonzalez vs. Derek Jeter "debate", I stumbled across a stat, secondary average, that I believe is the best, most telling statistic out there (I used to think a combo of slugging %, BB, and I guess how good of a baserunner you are was the best way to take everything into account, but this kinda compounds it all into one). Here is the formula:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_average
Jeter's career SecA is .263...Gonzalez' is .336...Jeter has topped .300 in just 2 seasons, Gonzalez did so in 9 seasons, even breaking .400...in case that's too harsh because it doesn't weight singles as much and a higher % of Jeter's hits were singles than most players, even if you remove the subtracting hits part from the formula, Gonzalez still has the edge .631 to .575. Keep in mind this stat takes into account and gives due credit for aspects of the game that Jeter was definitely better at, such as drawing walks & stealing bases, and Gonzalez still is significantly superior in the statistic.
POSTSEASON BATTING STATISTICS
SEASON GP AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1996 4 16 5 7 0 0 5 9 3 2 0 0 .438 .526 1.375 1.901
1998 3 12 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 .083 .083 .167 .250
1999 3 11 1 2 0 0 1 1 1 3 0 0 .182 .250 .455 .705
2001 5 23 4 8 3 0 2 5 0 7 0 0 .348 .348 .739 1.087
Total 15 62 11 18 4 0 8 15 4 15 0 0 .290 .333 .742 1.075
POSTSEASON BATTING STATISTICS
SEASON GP AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1996 15 61 12 22 3 0 1 3 4 13 3 0 .361 .409 .459 .868
1997 5 21 6 7 1 0 2 2 3 5 1 0 .333 .417 .667 1.083
1998 13 51 7 12 1 1 0 3 7 10 3 0 .235 .328 .294 .622
1999 12 48 10 18 3 1 1 4 5 9 3 1 .375 .434 .542 .976
2000 16 63 13 20 2 1 4 9 11 18 1 1 .317 .427 .571 .998
2001 17 62 5 14 1 0 1 4 3 8 0 1 .226 .275 .290 .566
2002 4 16 6 8 0 0 2 3 2 3 0 0 .500 .526 .875 1.401
2003 17 70 10 22 5 0 2 5 7 13 2 0 .314 .385 .471 .856
2004 11 49 8 12 2 0 1 9 7 6 2 0 .245 .339 .347 .686
2005 5 21 4 7 0 0 2 5 1 5 1 0 .333 .348 .619 .967
2006 4 16 4 8 4 0 1 1 1 2 0 1 .500 .529 .938 1.467
2007 4 17 0 3 0 0 0 1 0 4 0 0 .176 .176 .176 .353
2009 15 64 14 22 5 0 3 6 10 11 0 1 .344 .432 .563 .995
2010 9 40 2 10 3 1 0 2 2 10 1 0 .250 .286 .375 .661
Total 147 599 101 185 30 4 20 57 63 117 17 5 .309 .377 .472 .850
whos career would you rather have....regular season stats dont mean s**t. whoa you played nice for some s**ty teams woopdie f**king doo
Lol, so because Jeter had the good fortune of playing for a better team and had more opportunities to go to the playoffs and accumulate postseason stats, he's better? Obviously if Jeter played for the Rangers and Juan Gon played for NYY then you could just flip flop the argument since Gonzalez would have way more postseason appearances. Besides, Jeter by and large had similar if not slightly worse postseason production compared to his regular season production. It's not like he was a completely different animal in the playoffs. And the few times Gonzalez and his s**tty teams were fortunate enough to make the playoffs, he produced. .290 BA, 8 homers, and 15 RBI in just 15 career playoff games. His postseason slugging was nearly 200 points higher than his regular season slugging.
I think a huge indictment on Jeter is his slugging %. Only .449 for his career and only one year of at least .485. You don't have to be Barry Bonds to have a good slugging. Plenty of guys that aren't power freaks post good sluggings such as Shane Victorino, Alex Gordon, etc. The fact that he's a shortstop shouldn't excuse him either. Look at Jose Reyes' (.513), Troy Tulowitzki's (.552, .568, .509 the last 3 years), etc. There are 2 TEAMS that have higher sluggings than Jeter had over his career (Boston and Texas), and in most years there are 2-5 or so teams that that is the case for. The bottom line is he is a singles hitter- 74% of his career hits have been singles and I just don't think singles are a huge deal- it takes at least 3 of 'em, sometimes 4, to score a single run. If he didn't play his whole career for such a great team with great bats behind him to drive him in, no one would care about him and his singles. If he played his whole career for Toronto or Pittsburgh or something like that instead, you think he'd have the same reputation? He's just blessed to have played for the Yanks.