Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by skeetskeet:
atleast Michael Young is a way better comp then Juan Gonzalez.
Juan Gonzalez haha
Uhhhhh.......
first off, if ur gonna use stats, atleast use baseball reference.
Do you still think Jeter>Gonzalez?
I could make an argument that Luis Gonzalez is better than Juan Gonzalez.
LOL. No you can't. I can't believe how little love all you guys are giving him. If he's not the best player of the entire decade of the 90's, he's certainly no worse than 2nd or 3rd. He won 2 MVP's. And he did it all for the one squad. And you guys are acting like I just said Jim Druckenmiller>Joe Montana. I just don't get it.
Luis - .283 Avg 354 HRs 596 2Bs 1439 RBIs 1155 BBs 1218 Ks .367 OBP .479 SLG .845 OPS
Juan -.295 Avg 434 HRs 388 2Bs 1404 RBIs 457 BBs 1273 Ks .343 OBP .561 SLG .904 OPS
Juan hit higher average, less RBIs, WAY less walks, on-base less often, way less doubles...
i win.
Jesus. Luis had over 2600 more at bats. How much weight do you think having 35 more career RBI's holds? Lol. And slugging and OPS are both waaaaaay better stats than OBP, and Juan holds quite healthy advantages in those (way bigger discrepancies than Luis' small advantage on OBP, which, like I said, is way less important anyways)- which take doubles into account. About the only thing Luis was better at was walks. Juan won 2 MVP's to Luis' 0. Also, do you deny that Juan was no worse than the 3rd best player of the entire decade of the 90's, or are you gonna disagree with that too???
Ken Griffey Jr,
Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas.
Next subject.
I think Juan Gonzalez is likely better than Frank Thomas. But even if he's not, how many others can you name? The bottom line is he was ONE of the best players of the 90's (I think he may have had more extra base hits than anyone else in that span). It's not like you can say the same about a stretch that long for Jeter. Can we not agree on that?
Backtracking now? Thomas had top 7 MVP's 7 times in the 90s. Gonzalez 3 times. You are wrong again. Next subject.
YOU'RE talking about backtracking? The man who went out of his way to say Jeter would have been the best player and NOT just hitter on several teams, then listing teams saying he would be the best position player for them? Ok smart guy, so where do you rank Gonzalez amongst the best players of the 90's?
Also, btw, I love how NOW you're willing to call Thomas a top-3 players of the 90's but still claimed Jeter would be the best player in White Sox history. Contradiction, much?
At least you recognize that I am smart. Sorry but I cannot reciprocate.
Lol, way to actually respond to the points at hand. Why don't you answer the question, where do you rank Gonzalez amonst the best players of the 90's? It doesn't matter if it's 1st, it doesn't matter if it's 2nd, it doesn't matter if it's 4th. All that matters is that whatever it is, you can't say something similar about Jeter for a similar stretch.
I would put Jeter ahead of Gonzalez for an ENTIRE career given everything that it takes to be a ballplayer and not just the ability to hit the ball out of the park. All you care about is power stats. You dont seem to care that he was a marginal outfielder at best who DH'd about 1 out of every 4 games. OR.. that he was slow and only stole 26 bases in 17 seasons while getting caught 19 times. OR.. that he was near the top in hitting into DPs several times. OR.. that he was washed up by the time he was 33. OR.. that he played a corner OF position where it is MUCH easier to find a power hitter than at SS.
For a power hitter with no other redeeming features it is surprising that Juan Gonzalez NEVER - REPEAT NEVER finished in the top 3 in OPS in any season. So. in summary... NO speed, Bad defense, No longevity, No titles, NEVER top 3 in OPS. Oh wait.. it gets better. Jeter top 6 in WAR 6 times in his career. Juan Gonzalez.. 0 ( ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZIP, NEVER) times. Well.. he did finish 9th once!The defense rests!
And Jeter's last good year was when he was at the WAAAY older age of..........drumroll...........34. AGAIN, longevity only carries so much weight. Being good for a million years is not as impressive as being dominant for a shorter period of time. That's why no one thinks Ricky Proehl was a better receiver than Sterling Sharpe. The key way to truly gauge how great someone is at something, you look at how they did at their best and so you gotta put a little more emphasis on the best FEW years of each. And Jeter at his best was nowhere near Juan Gon at his. I also care about far more than power stats. I bet I hold Stan Musial in higher esteem than you do, and he never even hit 40 dingers in a season. Jose Reyes is slugging .529 right now with an OPS of .927 and he has just 3 homers. Shane Victorino is another example. When I look at slugging, it's not just because great POWER players have great sugging %'s...it's because great players period do. Jeter was definitely a better fielder, it's not like there's plays that happen all the time that Jeter would make that the average big league shortstop couldn't. The GREAT, OVERWHELMING majority of balls hit are gonna be a basehit regardless of who's fielding or an out regardless of who's fielding. And though Jeter is obviously also a better basestealer, it's not like he's Rickey Henderson- he averages under 20 per season. As for the titles, you never respond to what I say about that, but this is copy and pasted from before: it's irrelevant when comparing players because teams win championships. So if you want to compare the YANKEES with the BLUE JAYS, then yes, the Yankees>Blue Jays. That doesn't make Jeter>Delgado. Is Horry>Jordan? You seem to ignore the INDIVIDUAL accolades that guys like Bagwell and Thomas and Gonzalez have acquired such as MVP and just seem to be focusing on team accomplishments. It's not like Delgado would have no rings if he were fortunate enough to play with the Yankees during those years, nor would Jeter have any rings if he played for the Blue Jays.