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Dirk Nowitzki vs Larry Bird

Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by jimrat201:

He wasnt the greatest passer of all time like the video says but Dirk is nowhere near Birds league. Level of competition isnt like today lol.........idiotic statement

Nah, his friend is right about that part. There weren't too many Dirk Nowitzki's in Bird's day. Or Pau Gasol's, Manu Ginobili's, Yao Ming's, Tony Parker's, Luol Deng's, Nene's, Kirilenko's, Barbosa's, Stojakovic's, Turkoglu's, Okur's, etc.

The entire world is playing basketball these days and then coming to the NBA. In Bird's day, it was mostly just America, with a couple of exceptions. Much higher competition level today...but Bird still woulda dominated because he's still mentally faster than almost everyone else, just like Nash.

One could say that these guys would not be able to play as well in Birds era due to the allowable contact and style of play. It was much more aggressive possibly because it was all American. I still think it can be argued that the talent was better then as a lot of players who retired about 7 years ago played in that era. If there is a difference, it may have been average height but again, todays taller player like Dirk and the list above are accustomed to a "softer" game.

I agree with you. IMO, Bird would walk all over this Era just like he did in the 80's. This era has no hand checking and no dominant "true" centers in the paint. The NBA was way more physical is Bird's day. If he played in this era, he'd probably have even more points and rebounds than he did. Anyone saying Dirk is better than Bird must have never watched basketball before 2000.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by Travisty13:
While the article was well written, your friend is completely wrong.

*Dirk has played in roughly 100 more games then Bird.*

Defense
While Dirk has 200+ more career blocks then Bird, Bird has 650+ more steals. Almost double that of Dirks (1556-884). - Advantage - Bird

3 pointers
Dirk has almost double the 3pt attempts then Bird. While Bird's 3 point percentage was 37.6% and Dirks being 38.1. Advantage - Push. Both are about equal.

Rebounds
Dirk has never averaged over 10.0 boards a game. (9.9 a game twice). Bird averaged 10.0 for his career (11.0 his season high). Career averages: Bird - 10.0, Dirk - 8.4. Advantage - Bird

FG/FT
Both are close to even. Bird's attempted more FG, has a higher FG % (49.5 to 47.6). Bird has a better FT % (88.6% to 87.7%) - Advantage - close to a Push, but its Bird.

Assists
Not even close. Dirk's career 2.7. Bird's career 6.3. Advantage - Bird

Overall, Bird trumps Dirk in everything. Bird's a 3 time NBA MVP, 2 times NBA Finals MVP, 9 time All-NBA 1st team, 3 times All-NBA Defensive 2nd team. He's a better shooter, superior defender, way better rebounder, better passer. There was nothing Bird couldn't do. Dirk is a good offensive player, but he's nowhere near Larry Legend in anything he does.

Is it safe to say that the level of competition has shot up since the days of Bird? Hence the lower numbers in certain areas for Dirk. In all honesty, if Larry Bird played today would he still be able to dominate the way he did back then?

Bird was basically a 6'9" Steve Nash. Hell yes he would have dominated today. Dirk scores. He's great at it, but that's all he does. Not the case with Bird.

Bird was a much better passer. And a better all around player. Dirk is basically a scorer. And yes at 6'9" he would dominate today also.
I challenge anybody to go watch a random game from the 80's and tell me that the game was more physical back then. Today's game is more physical and it's not even all that close.
  • BobS
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I challenge anybody to go watch a random game from the 80's and tell me that the game was more physical back then. Today's game is more physical and it's not even all that close.

Alright, try the mid to late 80's Piston-Bulls play-off series, Michael Jordan used to show up at post game interviews with welts on his head. The flagrant foul rule (whenever it was enacted) was made specifically to stop that type of play. Makes sense play was rougher back then because it was allowed. The Pistons of 1989-90 would not have won back to back titles with today's rules because most of their players other than Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas would have been ejected and suspended.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I challenge anybody to go watch a random game from the 80's and tell me that the game was more physical back then. Today's game is more physical and it's not even all that close.









[ Edited by nicedraw94080 on Jun 4, 2011 at 19:28:26 ]
  • BobS
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Those 88 Knicks got even nastier a few years later when they added Anthony Mason, who was basically a hockey goon with basketball shoes on.
  • jimrat
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That 2nd video says it all on how physical it was, that was brutal.
Originally posted by LBCniner:
dirk is the greatest german to ever LIVE!! LIVE!!!

Hitler disagrees
DIRK

f**k the bird
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
DIRK

f**k the bird

Bird was the better overall player no question. Better passer and overall player. Actually won Championships. No comparison. Dirk is just a recent guy who people are more familiar with now.
  • BobS
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Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
DIRK

f**k the bird

Bird was the better overall player no question. Better passer and overall player. Actually won Championships. No comparison. Dirk is just a recent guy who people are more familiar with now.


Larry Bird has been gone for almost 20 years (Has it been that long?) A lot of zoners were in diapers when he retired. True, Nowitzski has been a play-off monster this year, that is one year. In other play-off runs Dirk did not even duplicate his regular season form. Larry Bird came up big in the play-offs every year he was in them and the Celtics won 3 titles when he was on the team. Bird has 3 MVPS. Nowitzski has 1 MVP and zero titles. He would need quite a few more play-off runs like this to realistically be compared to Bird. What is with you guys thinking only recent players that you have seen are the best ever? This one is as ridiculous as the Jordan vs Lebron comparisons. What next? Derrick Rose vs Magic Johnson? Dwight Howard vs Bill Russell?

[ Edited by BobS on Jun 4, 2011 at 22:31:31 ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I challenge anybody to go watch a random game from the 80's and tell me that the game was more physical back then. Today's game is more physical and it's not even all that close.

You obviously dont watch the Warriors play very often. However, I know you watch the Lakers play and there is no way you can tell me they are as tough and physical as the Pistons of the 80s.
  • BobS
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Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I challenge anybody to go watch a random game from the 80's and tell me that the game was more physical back then. Today's game is more physical and it's not even all that close.

You obviously dont watch the Warriors play very often. However, I know you watch the Lakers play and there is no way you can tell me they are as tough and physical as the Pistons of the 80s.

I am a Piston fan, I used to cash quite a few bets back in 1985-90 just betting against teams that had met the Pistons in their last game, they took such a beating it would take almost a week to get back to form. Playing the Pistons back in the day would send quite a few teams on mini losing streaks. After the Pistons fell off the Knicks were the tough team in the East till the end of the 90's. In the early 90's Mason and Oakley weren't too kind to anyone in the paint, add Ewing to that and they were pretty tough.

Ok, when did they implement the flagrant foul rules?
Why exactly do you guys think that the Bad Boys earned their nickname and reputation? Do you think it's possibly because they played a brand of basketball that was so unique to their era that they stood out like a sore thumb?

Whenever the subject of the physicality of the 80's comes up, people say "Bad Boys" as though they were representative of their era. They wouldn't have even been called the "Bad Boys" if they were. The Lakers of the 80's weren't physical. Neither were the Celtics. The Sixers only sort of were with Moses Malone and Barkley, but neither one of those guys cared too much about defense. The Sikma/Moncrief Bucks weren't physical. 'Nique's Hawks weren't physical. Same goes for almost the entire league.

They were quicker to throw blows...that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. They scrapped more because the penalties were far less. But in terms of the physicality of most of the 80's, offenses had it waaaaay easier back then because of how little resistance there was.

You really think the game was a ton more physical AND teams still averaged 110 points per game? Please.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jun 5, 2011 at 00:03:19 ]
DIRK