Week 6 Buff Bills Coaches Film Analysis Thread

Originally posted by jonnydel:

I covered a lot of both our running game and our run defense in the last film thread - a LOT of that applies directly here as well. Same mistakes, same problems. I was hoping to be able to tackle a lot of breakdowns of the run game today but I've gotten swamped with work and then have a meeting after work for 2-3 hours. So, I won't be able to tackle that til tomorrow, if I even have time tomorrow.

That, and I'm still working on the construction of my coming baby's room :) Not that I don't love y'all, I'm more in love with my coming baby girl and want to make sure her room is perfect

This is a great article to help understand how JoN teaches his DE's/LB's in the run game. Very interesting to read that most of the defensive coaches that run the Rex style defense have abandoned this style of Run D and have kept the pass D.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/22/13352518/49ers-run-defense-jim-oneil

Originally posted by thl408:

The only way I see an improvement is if guys like DeFo and AA improve their game. I don't see some dramatic scheme change at this point. Guys like Bellore/Wilhoite/Dial/Dorsey are who they are and won't be improving much, maybe Dial.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/22/13352518/49ers-run-defense-jim-oneil

I wanted to tag you in this as well THL. I know we have heard from some of the Browns players about how JoN's Run D is too much of a guessing game but I have never read about how he specifically teaches his DE's to sometimes penetrate and sometimes 2 gap, sometimes 1 gap. It just seems so strange to me.... I hope he realizes this soon and goes back to a classic run D and keeps his exotic pass D

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/22/13352518/49ers-run-defense-jim-oneil

I wanted to tag you in this as well THL. I know we have heard from some of the Browns players about how JoN's Run D is too much of a guessing game but I have never read about how he specifically teaches his DE's to sometimes penetrate and sometimes 2 gap, sometimes 1 gap. It just seems so strange to me.... I hope he realizes this soon and goes back to a classic run D and keeps his exotic pass D

History is proving that he is just going to run this system until he no longer has a job. It almost seems like he's just running the "Old" Ryan playbook that he picked up as a young coach without attempting to make any adjustments.

I guess this is why you see the NT pass rushing his way out of position as a RB blows by the gaping holes he leaves behind when he takes himself out of plays.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/22/13352518/49ers-run-defense-jim-oneil

I wanted to tag you in this as well THL. I know we have heard from some of the Browns players about how JoN's Run D is too much of a guessing game but I have never read about how he specifically teaches his DE's to sometimes penetrate and sometimes 2 gap, sometimes 1 gap. It just seems so strange to me.... I hope he realizes this soon and goes back to a classic run D and keeps his exotic pass D

History is proving that he is just going to run this system until he no longer has a job. It almost seems like he's just running the "Old" Ryan playbook that he picked up as a young coach without attempting to make any adjustments.

I guess this is why you see the NT pass rushing his way out of position as a RB blows by the gaping holes he leaves behind when he takes himself out of plays.

Yeah I just can't understand how he can expect his DE's and LB's to succeed. The DE's just freestyle whatever they thinks best and it's like the LB's are left watching what decision the DL makes instead of watching what the offense is doing.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Originally posted by thl408:
The only way I see an improvement is if guys like DeFo and AA improve their game. I don't see some dramatic scheme change at this point. Guys like Bellore/Wilhoite/Dial/Dorsey are who they are and won't be improving much, maybe Dial.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/22/13352518/49ers-run-defense-jim-oneil

I wanted to tag you in this as well THL. I know we have heard from some of the Browns players about how JoN's Run D is too much of a guessing game but I have never read about how he specifically teaches his DE's to sometimes penetrate and sometimes 2 gap, sometimes 1 gap. It just seems so strange to me.... I hope he realizes this soon and goes back to a classic run D and keeps his exotic pass D

Thanks for this. Assuming JoN is teaching what the article states, this is indeed a complicated way to defend the run. I'm sure it sounds great on the whiteboard because it looks to see how the offense is blocking, then adjusts. This is similar to pattern match coverage where the defense waits to see what the offense does, then adjust, but things at the LoS happen so much faster than in the secondary.

The article mentioned how free agency and frequent roster turnover forces newcomers to quickly learn their team's new scheme. Also, the new CBA and less practice time. All this works against having players that can master the system and carry out their assignments because it won't be like anything they've done in the past (previous team, college).

JoN is still young and should be capable of changing his ways. Perhaps after two teams with failed run defenses, he realizes that he can't teach this way of playing defense and uses a more conventional run defense, if he even knows how to teach that.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Originally posted by thl408:

The only way I see an improvement is if guys like DeFo and AA improve their game. I don't see some dramatic scheme change at this point. Guys like Bellore/Wilhoite/Dial/Dorsey are who they are and won't be improving much, maybe Dial.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/10/22/13352518/49ers-run-defense-jim-oneil

I wanted to tag you in this as well THL. I know we have heard from some of the Browns players about how JoN's Run D is too much of a guessing game but I have never read about how he specifically teaches his DE's to sometimes penetrate and sometimes 2 gap, sometimes 1 gap. It just seems so strange to me.... I hope he realizes this soon and goes back to a classic run D and keeps his exotic pass D

Thanks for this. Assuming JoN is teaching what the article states, this is indeed a complicated way to defend the run. I'm sure it sounds great on the whiteboard because it looks to see how the offense is blocking, then adjusts. This is similar to pattern match coverage where the defense waits to see what the offense does, then adjust, but things at the LoS happen so much faster than in the secondary.

The article mentioned how free agency and frequent roster turnover forces newcomers to quickly learn their team's new scheme. Also, the new CBA and less practice time. All this works against having players that can master the system and carry out their assignments because it won't be like anything they've done in the past (previous team, college).

JoN is still young and should be capable of changing his ways. Perhaps after two teams with failed run defenses, he realizes that he can't teach this way of playing defense and uses a more conventional run defense, if he even knows how to teach that.

A lot of young coaches spend time studying and learning so it's easy to see the allure. It's complicated but it should work better if it's executed properly. Sometimes young coaches need to learn that just because they look smart on a whiteboard with complex defensive schemes it does not guarantee success. The execution of the scheme has been a major problem for him and I don't know if it's because the scheme is too complex for them or whether O'Neil isn't an effective teacher of it.

I'm not a football guy but I am a manager. If it was me I would consider the fact his team has no experience on the DL to help the transition so perhaps keeping things more straight forward would be best. Sometimes your job is about removing complexity from your workers routines to allow them to succeed at what they do best. Keep it simple and let them just go out there and play. I really miss Fangio.

JD and THL do you plan on doing the film thread for the bucs game? If not I totally understand, I know it sucks to look at us losing week after week. If not I'll post a few questions I have in the JoN thread and the chip thread.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
JD and THL do you plan on doing the film thread for the bucs game? If not I totally understand, I know it sucks to look at us losing week after week. If not I'll post a few questions I have in the JoN thread and the chip thread.

I think JD will do one although he had a lot on his plate. If there are certain plays you were wondering about, I can take a look and cut it up. If you are wondering something like, "how did this player do throughout the game", sorry I ain't got time fo dat.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
JD and THL do you plan on doing the film thread for the bucs game? If not I totally understand, I know it sucks to look at us losing week after week. If not I'll post a few questions I have in the JoN thread and the chip thread.

The problem is that the same players are making the same mistakes. Same dog. Same fleas.

On defense, particularly the DL, the young players are struggling executing JoN's run defense concepts. In the past the DL just used up blockers. Now they are being asked to do that on occasion and then slant/slash on others. It appears to be based on LOS reads. It takes experience to do that and Armstead and Buckner don't have that experience yet. Problems.

On offense it all focuses on QB, and we have had that discussion ad nauseum.

Until something changes, about all you can do is look at the film and say "ditto."

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

JD and THL do you plan on doing the film thread for the bucs game? If not I totally understand, I know it sucks to look at us losing week after week. If not I'll post a few questions I have in the JoN thread and the chip thread.

I think JD will do one although he had a lot on his plate. If there are certain plays you were wondering about, I can take a look and cut it up. If you are wondering something like, "how did this player do throughout the game", sorry I ain't got time fo dat.

Yeah no worries I understand. There was just a few plays I saw that I wanted to get a closer look at.
I remember after the Kap int in the 2nd quarter, Jaquizze breaks off a 40 yarder, it looked like our DL had one of those funky JoN alignments but it left a huge gap between the LT and LG and no one filled that hole? Was that a mistake of Bellore?

I also coulda swore I saw a hard play action with Kap under center pass completion!!! Man did that look refreshing. Think that was the pass to Burbridge.

And lastly in the 1st quarter we had the Bucs backed up inside the 10 I think and it looked like they went 4 WR's and we stayed in base personnel with Brooks matched up across from Evans, he deoesnt even give him a bump and Winston easily hits Evans for like 20 yds. Did I see that correctly? Were we in base against 4 WR?

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
Yeah no worries I understand. There was just a few plays I saw that I wanted to get a closer look at.
I remember after the Kap int in the 2nd quarter, Jaquizze breaks off a 40 yarder, it looked like our DL had one of those funky JoN alignments but it left a huge gap between the LT and LG and no one filled that hole? Was that a mistake of Bellore?

I also coulda swore I saw a hard play action with Kap under center pass completion!!! Man did that look refreshing. Think that was the pass to Burbridge.

And lastly in the 1st quarter we had the Bucs backed up inside the 10 I think and it looked like they went 4 WR's and we stayed in base personnel with Brooks matched up across from Evans, he deoesnt even give him a bump and Winston easily hits Evans for like 20 yds. Did I see that correctly? Were we in base against 4 WR?

For sure I can take a look at those. I'll see if JD will make a thread for TB. If not, I'll create a mini thread with cut ups, but minus any sort of summary. It's the summary that takes the most time since it involves watching the entire game. I still go back to watch plays I was curious about while watching it live, but I haven't re-watched the entire BUF game, and don't plan to re-watch the entire TB game either. Yeah, it's hard to stomach.

Originally posted by thl408:

For sure I can take a look at those. I'll see if JD will make a thread for TB. If not, I'll create a mini thread with cut ups, but minus any sort of summary. It's the summary that takes the most time since it involves watching the entire game. I still go back to watch plays I was curious about while watching it live, but I haven't re-watched the entire BUF game, and don't plan to re-watch the entire TB game either. Yeah, it's hard to stomach.

Lets just cut up this game

Originally posted by Niners816:

Lets just cut up this game

I'll start with the best part....



1998 - "All Go"

All verts concept. TO managed to hang on to this one, saving a very tough game for him. Outstanding catch with a crushing hit at the end. Play art taken from the 1999 holmgren playbook (oh, the irony )