Alex Smith Discussion Thread

Does it make someone a "bad fan" to root for a player when they leave their favorite team? I'm struggling with this. It happened once before, but I was much younger. When Montana was cast off in favor of Steve Young, I was not happy. When the Chiefs played the 49ers in that Monday night game, I couldn't help but cheer for Montana. He transcended my love of the 49ers.

Now obviously Smith has not accomplished what Montana did, but he has captured my heart nonetheless. No need to go through all of the things he has endured, but to have the kind of heart and determination he has showed made it easy for an old(er) guy like me to cheer for him. I really want to see him succeed. As I think of the possible destinations for him, I wonder if I will cheer for that team, and for how long, and if that makes me less of a Niner fan.

In the end, I am and will always be a Niner fan. I got over the Montana thing, and I'll get over this too. But I invested so much into Smith (defending him for years and then being validated the last two) I can't let go as easy as some on this board are able to. Yeah yeah, I know, but I'm man enough to admit that I'm a fan of a player.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
BS. Every single one of those guys has personally excelled when his team has been bad.

Yea? Andrew Luck has a 75.5 qb rating. Hardly excelling. Andrew Luck took over a 2 win team and has them on the verge of a playoff berth. If you are looking at QB rating as the end all, then I really feel like this response will be a waste of time. 2 win team with Luck is a top 5 team in the AFC. If you dont call that success, I dont know what is.

Teams win games. Luck's play has been mediocre.

You may have had a point with Robert Griffin, but then he got injured and his back up came in and lit it up which probably indicates that the team around him isn't too shabby. No tape on Kirk Cousins, so theres no surprise that he lit it up. Oh wait, does that excuse only apply to OUR quarterbacks who are replacing Alex? RGIII took over a 5 win team and will likely win the NFC East. At worst, they are an 8 win team. Yes he has had help from Alfred Morris, but many attribute his success to RGIII. His stats are off the charts for a rookie QB.

Still, if the Redskins success was all RG III's making, then it's unlikely Kirk Cousin's would have come in and played that well. They have a great running game (#1 in the league) and a good o-line.

Peyton Manning threw for almost 20 ints a season with a mid 80s qbr for the first 5 years of his career until the team around him got better. It took Peyton Manning one full season to turn the Colts from a terrible team to a perennial powerhouse. Mid 80s QBR for his first 5 years? Completely incorrect. (71.2, 90.7, 94.7, 84.1, 88.8) Yeah, that sounds like mid 80s for first 5 years.Or are you strictly talking average? Fine. It averages to about an 85 QBR. But you know damn well his rookie year is weighting that down. To say he was a mid 80s QBR type QB is ridiculous.

If you average out his qbr over those 5 seasons, it's in the 80s even if you throw out his rookie season.

Drew Bress struggled with the Chargers and has had success behind a talented offense in NO. When his line doesn't do a good job protecting him or when the defense plays terribly, he's become a pick machine. Talented offense in NO? LOL. This was a 3 win team when Drew Brees got to New Orleans. He turned that into a 10 win team in one season and threw for 4400 yards and 26 TDs.

They also got a new coaching staff and drafted well on the offense. Hardly just Brees.

Cam Newton scored a lot of TDs last year, but he also turned the ball over 20 times and didn't have a good qb rating. Yep 35 touchdowns. An obscene amount for a rookie starting on the worst team in the NFL. He had terrible talent around him and turned a 2 win team into a 6 win team....and put up great stats in the process. Didnt have a good QB rating? I guess is considered to be bad these days huh?

Going from 2-14 to 6-10 isn't a great leap. And 35 tds isn't great when you turn the ball over that many times. It's not bad per say, but it's not what I'd consider to be "excelling."

Andy Dalton has a decent team around him, but still only has around a 85 career qb rating. Decent team around him? I guess a 4-12 team is considered decent now a days huh? Dalton turned a 4 win team into a 9 win team and had 3400 yards and 20 TDs as a rookie.

They also drafted a top receiver in AJ Green and have a solid defense. Those things have as much to do with their turnaround as Dalton does. His stats aren't that impressive in either of his 2 seasons.

Originally posted by steelman:
I agree with 80sbaby24. It doesnt matter if a good quarterback has a bad team around him, they always seem to find a way to make plays and shine.

If I had to compare Alex Smith to another quarterback in the league, I would say it has to be Mark Sanchez, only the the beginning of their careers were flipped.

When Mark Sanchez came into the league, he joined a very good Jets team that was lead primarily by their defense with some solid weapons on offense.
Coaching staff was good with a strong running game. The team didnt ask a whole lot from Mark Sanchez and was generally comfortable with his role, which allowed him to make the occasional big play when called upon. He helped lead the Jets to two Championship games in his first few years...

Now look at Mark Sanchez... The team around him is horrible, he has no real offensive weapons, his defense is a shadow of what it once was and the the head coach and staff has turned into a circus. Mark Sanchez is now expected to make plays on his own, the expectations are different and despite being a solid AVERAGE quarterback his skill level does not allow him to transcend the mediocrity around him.

Alex Smith is pretty much the same thing, only he started his career with s**tty teams with no stability where his lack of great skill was apparent. Fortunately for him he was lucky enough to still be around when the talent around him, along with a GREAT coaching staff finally grew around him. The pressure was off of him and the offense did not ask much from him.

Hopefully Alex (and Mark Sanchez) can find teams next year that can accomdate their skill level, but I honestly believe both of them will probably end up playing for other s**tty teams where their careers will spiral out of control.

Not really a great comparison. Mark Sanchez has never had a qb rating higher than 78.2 in his career. Alex Smith has exceeded that number in 4 of the 6 seasons he's played more than 8 games. Other than the season he was injured, Smith's only thrown more picks than tds in one season and that was his rookie season. Sanchez has done it twice in 4 seasons. Sanchez's career completion percentage is 55.2. Smith's is over 60 if you throw out the games in which he was playing with a torn shoulder.

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
BS. Every single one of those guys has personally excelled when his team has been bad.

Yea? Andrew Luck has a 75.5 qb rating. Hardly excelling. Andrew Luck took over a 2 win team and has them on the verge of a playoff berth. If you are looking at QB rating as the end all, then I really feel like this response will be a waste of time. 2 win team with Luck is a top 5 team in the AFC. If you dont call that success, I dont know what is.

Teams win games. Luck's play has been mediocre.

That's why he has something like 5 come-back wins?

Yes, he's made plenty of mistakes, but what rookie doesn't? Luck's role is a lot different than RG3s. Luck came onto a sh*t team. RG3's team traded up for him. The Redskins last year with sh*t QBs were still a mediocre team. Luck was asked to come in and change the culture in Indianapolis after one horrible year. And he's done just that.

Back to Alex Smith

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:

Originally posted by steelman:
I agree with 80sbaby24. It doesnt matter if a good quarterback has a bad team around him, they always seem to find a way to make plays and shine.

If I had to compare Alex Smith to another quarterback in the league, I would say it has to be Mark Sanchez, only the the beginning of their careers were flipped.

When Mark Sanchez came into the league, he joined a very good Jets team that was lead primarily by their defense with some solid weapons on offense.
Coaching staff was good with a strong running game. The team didnt ask a whole lot from Mark Sanchez and was generally comfortable with his role, which allowed him to make the occasional big play when called upon. He helped lead the Jets to two Championship games in his first few years...

Now look at Mark Sanchez... The team around him is horrible, he has no real offensive weapons, his defense is a shadow of what it once was and the the head coach and staff has turned into a circus. Mark Sanchez is now expected to make plays on his own, the expectations are different and despite being a solid AVERAGE quarterback his skill level does not allow him to transcend the mediocrity around him.

Alex Smith is pretty much the same thing, only he started his career with s**tty teams with no stability where his lack of great skill was apparent. Fortunately for him he was lucky enough to still be around when the talent around him, along with a GREAT coaching staff finally grew around him. The pressure was off of him and the offense did not ask much from him.

Hopefully Alex (and Mark Sanchez) can find teams next year that can accomdate their skill level, but I honestly believe both of them will probably end up playing for other s**tty teams where their careers will spiral out of control.

Not really a great comparison. Mark Sanchez has never had a qb rating higher than 78.2 in his career. Alex Smith has exceeded that number in 4 of the 6 seasons he's played more than 8 games.

Alex Smith compared to Mark Sanchez is a horrible comparison.

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
None of those guys have excelled when the team around them has been bad.

Luck has

I dont think its a bad team around him

Well they were bad enough to draft Luck!

And got rid of a lot of dead weight after that season. Just because a team is bad/good the previous year doesn't mean that they will be bad/good the next. Luck isn't the only thing different from the previous team.

Luck isnt the only thing different but he sure as hell is the only impact player added to the Colts in the offseason. They lost a lot more talent than they brought in.

They got rid of old talent and brought in younger talent. Just because talent is younger doesn't mean it's a downgrade. They also made changes in the coaching staff and we know how much a coaching change can impact the team.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Does it make someone a "bad fan" to root for a player when they leave their favorite team? I'm struggling with this. It happened once before, but I was much younger. When Montana was cast off in favor of Steve Young, I was not happy. When the Chiefs played the 49ers in that Monday night game, I couldn't help but cheer for Montana. He transcended my love of the 49ers.

Now obviously Smith has not accomplished what Montana did, but he has captured my heart nonetheless. No need to go through all of the things he has endured, but to have the kind of heart and determination he has showed made it easy for an old(er) guy like me to cheer for him. I really want to see him succeed. As I think of the possible destinations for him, I wonder if I will cheer for that team, and for how long, and if that makes me less of a Niner fan.

In the end, I am and will always be a Niner fan. I got over the Montana thing, and I'll get over this too. But I invested so much into Smith (defending him for years and then being validated the last two) I can't let go as easy as some on this board are able to. Yeah yeah, I know, but I'm man enough to admit that I'm a fan of a player.

No. Rooting for a player on another team is fine, as long as you draw the line when they play your team.

After Alex leaves I will wish him great success - except when he plays the 49ers. Then I want SF to destroy him.

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Teams win games. Luck's play has been mediocre.

If you're just looking at his yearly stats and not watching any of the Colts games I could totally see someone making this statement.

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
None of those guys have excelled when the team around them has been bad.

Luck has

I dont think its a bad team around him

Well they were bad enough to draft Luck!

And got rid of a lot of dead weight after that season. Just because a team is bad/good the previous year doesn't mean that they will be bad/good the next. Luck isn't the only thing different from the previous team.

Luck isnt the only thing different but he sure as hell is the only impact player added to the Colts in the offseason. They lost a lot more talent than they brought in.

They got rid of old talent and brought in younger talent. Just because talent is younger doesn't mean it's a downgrade. They also made changes in the coaching staff and we know how much a coaching change can impact the team.

The entire league knows Luck is a star.

He excels.

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Not really a great comparison. Mark Sanchez has never had a qb rating higher than 78.2 in his career. Alex Smith has exceeded that number in 4 of the 6 seasons he's played more than 8 games. Other than the season he was injured, Smith's only thrown more picks than tds in one season and that was his rookie season. Sanchez has done it twice in 4 seasons. Sanchez's career completion percentage is 55.2. Smith's is over 60 if you throw out the games in which he was playing with a torn shoulder.

Mark Sanchez has a stronger arm than Alex Smith and was asked to push the ball down the field alot more than Alex Smith. This was reflected in his rating.
The problem with your arguments is that youre relying too heavily on quarter back ratings.
Quarter back ratings, especially in the case of Alex Smith is VERY misleading. It does not reflect the types of plays that are being executed. The offense from Alex's point of view is pretty vanilla.

Look at this way.. Chad Pennington has a better career QBR than Dan Marino, does that mean Chad is a better quarterback than Dan? Of course not.
I think the Alex Smith = Mark Sanchez comparison is very accurate. I think youll be able to determine the real Alex Smith when you watch him play for another team next year. That QBR of his will plummet faster than Facebook stock.

Originally posted by steelman:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Not really a great comparison. Mark Sanchez has never had a qb rating higher than 78.2 in his career. Alex Smith has exceeded that number in 4 of the 6 seasons he's played more than 8 games. Other than the season he was injured, Smith's only thrown more picks than tds in one season and that was his rookie season. Sanchez has done it twice in 4 seasons. Sanchez's career completion percentage is 55.2. Smith's is over 60 if you throw out the games in which he was playing with a torn shoulder.

Mark Sanchez has a stronger arm than Alex Smith and was asked to push the ball down the field alot more than Alex Smith. This was reflected in his rating.
The problem with your arguments is that youre relying too heavily on quarter back ratings.
Quarter back ratings, especially in the case of Alex Smith is VERY misleading. It does not reflect the types of plays that are being executed. The offense from Alex's point of view is pretty vanilla.

Look at this way.. Chad Pennington has a better career QBR than Dan Marino, does that mean Chad is a better quarterback than Dan? Of course not.
I think the Alex Smith = Mark Sanchez comparison is very accurate. I think youll be able to determine the real Alex Smith when you watch him play for another team next year. That QBR of his will plummet faster than Facebook stock.

alex smiths scoring efficiency is way higher than sanchez dude. thats the only number that matter when comparing qbs. smiths yardage and attempts lead to scores way more often than sanchez does

I love how I'm pinned a hater by a select few for pointing out some legitimate concerns regarding Keap, yep those same people come in here and s**t all over a kid who isn't even starting.

Originally posted by steelman:

Originally posted by TinyHandsBigHeart:
Not really a great comparison. Mark Sanchez has never had a qb rating higher than 78.2 in his career. Alex Smith has exceeded that number in 4 of the 6 seasons he's played more than 8 games. Other than the season he was injured, Smith's only thrown more picks than tds in one season and that was his rookie season. Sanchez has done it twice in 4 seasons. Sanchez's career completion percentage is 55.2. Smith's is over 60 if you throw out the games in which he was playing with a torn shoulder.

Mark Sanchez has a stronger arm than Alex Smith and was asked to push the ball down the field alot more than Alex Smith. This was reflected in his rating.
The problem with your arguments is that youre relying too heavily on quarter back ratings.
Quarter back ratings, especially in the case of Alex Smith is VERY misleading. It does not reflect the types of plays that are being executed. The offense from Alex's point of view is pretty vanilla.

Look at this way.. Chad Pennington has a better career QBR than Dan Marino, does that mean Chad is a better quarterback than Dan? Of course not.
I think the Alex Smith = Mark Sanchez comparison is very accurate. I think youll be able to determine the real Alex Smith when you watch him play for another team next year. That QBR of his will plummet faster than Facebook stock.

Alex plays mistake free football. Sanchez, well, just look at his last game. 4 interceptions and a fumble that lost them the gay. Other than the Giants game, I can't really find a game where Alex Smith has the majority of the blame for the reason we lost.

Enough. Alex Smith and Mark Sanchez are nothing alike.

Originally posted by jreff22:
I love how I'm pinned a hater by a select few for pointing out some legitimate concerns regarding Keap, yep those same people come in here and s**t all over a kid who isn't even starting.

I'm the same way, although I don't think anyone considers me a "hater". I'm a fan of both QBs. However, I'm very concerned with Kaep's game management and ball security.

However, people around here play favorites a lot. Doesn't matter who's winning under center, Kaep or Alex should always be the guy. No matter what.

I cheer for whoever's under center, however I will be highly critical of them and not give them praise for making a mistake.

Originally posted by ElDannMann:
That's why he has something like 5 come-back wins?

Yes, he's made plenty of mistakes, but what rookie doesn't? Luck's role is a lot different than RG3s. Luck came onto a sh*t team. RG3's team traded up for him. The Redskins last year with sh*t QBs were still a mediocre team. Luck was asked to come in and change the culture in Indianapolis after one horrible year. And he's done just that.

Back to Alex Smith

Russell Wilson: 12 turnovers

RG3: 6 turnovers

Luck: 23 turnovers