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Receivers need to attack the ball!

You guys should highlight the NY Giants WR's...just watching the first Q now and after the INT that put the Giants back to their own 32 yard line (basically, a punt), they just destroyed our D for an easy TD. Nicks is running on one leg and has 5 yards on Culliver (bad throw by Eli). Then Hixon just abuses our CB's off the LOS for a bomb, makes an AMAZING sideline catch (great throw where only his guy can catch it) and then Cruz catches a 99 mph fast ball in the back of the EZ that is super high (poorly thrown ball). I haven't even gotten into the acrobatic catches yet. The bottom line though is that Eli has confidence in these guys, b/c, well, why not...the effing catch everything. And they do..and Eli is often time inaccurate but they do attack the ball and put themselves in great position to catch the ball esp. off the LOS and adjustments when the ball is in the air. It really is impressive to watch.

On the flip side Crabtree drops another pass right in his hands on 3rd down (tipped). It was behind him but not 1/2 as hard as some of the catches the Giants were making routinely; Walker (LOL); simple drop by Celek right in his hands (joke); one pass behind to Crabtree (bad pass by Alex on ad lib play).

I don't have time but it would be cool to get an objective read of how "accurate" Eli is vs. how well the Giant WR's are making him look more accurate than he really is vs our passing game. If I remember correctly too, Eli, in the past two games should have had what, 6 INT's including 2 pick-6's? The first Q he was long on Hicks (see Alex/Manningham play), horrendous pass on 3rd down into the ground and then comes alive on the TD drive right after the pick.

Just a thought...
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 16, 2012 at 5:54 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:

Just a thought...

I agree, but it's a waste of time. Some of our fans want to NOT believe.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NCommand:

Just a thought...

I agree, but it's a waste of time. Some of our fans want to NOT believe.


Truth. It's too easy for these guys to point the finger at 1 guy than look at the team as a whole.

This thread is about comparing our receivers to other teams and the plays those teams make that ours simply doesn't due to effort and/or ability.

Funny thing is I think we may have that guy on our roster now. Time to get AJ on the field.
If our receivers had issues out there, Antrelle Rolle would have pointed that out. he did make some observations, but they werent about our receivers.
And the next time you see another 99 mph fast ball over the middle from Alex Smith (Saints game), you let me know. I will keep my eyes peeled too
This thread is pissing me off.

You got guys trying to say how much better the Giants' receivers are to ours. You also have to include the Broncos from their recent production. Heck, I think all the Colts receivers and tight ends behind Wayne are more legit from their success. Those rookies are killing it with jumping high up there and just plucking the pig skin out of the air. I mean, wtf is up with these GMs letting TY Hilton slip in the draft. Superstar.

Kevin Ogletree should be our number one receiver. I mean damn, with all those balls thrown his way, he alone shows us enough that we need to trade a second for him and cut Randy Moss. He snags that f**king ball and scores touchdowns.

Many late round receivers are out performing our guys... f**k man, we need to fire that f**ker Baalke, who the f**k does he think he is letting all these late round picks outplay our first rounders.

Quick, get Jeremy Kerley in here now, he is averaging almost 18 yards a catch. He could duke it out with Ogletree to see who wins the top spot for catching passes from Smith.

Hold on, hold on, I really wonder if Brian Hartline's 85 yards a game are due to his sudden decisiveness to fight for the ball because hes tired of 30 catches/year or maybe the change behind center; how about Devone Bess' 14 yds a catch... it must be due to him just flat being better than last years Superbowl hero. Or could it just maybe, just maybe be that little thing called 'ball placement'.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.

Again.. he had time to plant an jump. A decent offensive receiver would have been able to do something... and we are going in pointless circles, so I'll be the first to walk away.

Joe answer this. Did Walker turn around and locate the ball on the INT?

He turned around and located the ball and was not at a standstill. The route was a wheel route so if he saw the ball coming his way, he most likely wasn't expecting a Defender that close over the top. It's a route that is thrown with that much of an arc if the coast is clear. So what he did was to expect to catch it on the run with no defender just above him.

Now if the ball was zipped on a line, a receiver would assume it's being zipped for a reason so it's time to attack the ball because someone must be coming.

Two problems on that play:

One, the 49ers/Smith was fooled by the safety on that play. In the NFCC game, the Giants kept the safety in the center of the field and it was a huge completion. In this game, the Giants scouted it and the safety baited Smith into throwing it up for Walker. NYG=win. Had Smith known the safety was coming, he should have zipped it. In either case, Smith did not make either the correct read or the correct throw. Smith=fail.

Two, Delanie Walker is not a particularly agile receiver. To ask him to jump up and turn his body like Larry Fitzgerald is asking for more than he can do.

In this case, you have to give credit where it is due. NY scouted that play, disguised the safety coverage and beat a play that had beat them last time they played. That is football.

But to the topic, this team still needs a couple of those tall, agile receivers that can go up and challenge for the ball. Hopefully AJ Jenkins in one. Maybe Randy Moss is another but he would be a stop gap. As of now, I expect Harbaugh to go back to what he knows he has horses that can run the race - a safe, non-demanding passing game that will not allow the big, strong Seattle secondary to win the battle over the smaller SF receivers.
Originally posted by Joecool:
If you can't see that it was obvious he was not expecting the defender then I don't know what to say. The debate is the false thinking that our WR's don't fight or attack balls. Most receivers don't when they don't realize the defender is in position to jump in front for the INT.

This is why you see many INTs when a floating DB jumps infront and the WR has an empty basket.

There were a number of games this weekend that had very good to great QBs throw a ball up for grabs and their receivers TOOK the ball. Whether it is catching it at the highest possible point, running through a DB or whatever it took...they were determined to take the ball. Our receivers are still not good at this. Moss is the only WR who has been good but hasn't had enough playing time to my mind. Manningham has shown some of this ability and VD occasionally does well. But Walker, Ginn and Crabtree have never been particularly impressive owning the ball in the air. Williams is OK...not fantastic.

Watch a guy like Fitzgerald...every single game he plays like it would be a great insult for a DB to take a ball away if it's anywhere near him. That's what I would like to see with the niners receivers.

That said, Smith did not play well and he knows it...so there is little need to harp about it as if there is a choir of cheerleaders exonerating him of any blame.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 17, 2012 at 7:28 AM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Two problems on that play:

One, the 49ers/Smith was fooled by the safety on that play. In the NFCC game, the Giants kept the safety in the center of the field and it was a huge completion. In this game, the Giants scouted it and the safety baited Smith into throwing it up for Walker. NYG=win. Had Smith known the safety was coming, he should have zipped it. In either case, Smith did not make either the correct read or the correct throw. Smith=fail.

Two, Delanie Walker is not a particularly agile receiver. To ask him to jump up and turn his body like Larry Fitzgerald is asking for more than he can do.

In this case, you have to give credit where it is due. NY scouted that play, disguised the safety coverage and beat a play that had beat them last time they played. That is football.

But to the topic, this team still needs a couple of those tall, agile receivers that can go up and challenge for the ball. Hopefully AJ Jenkins in one. Maybe Randy Moss is another but he would be a stop gap. As of now, I expect Harbaugh to go back to what he knows he has horses that can run the race - a safe, non-demanding passing game that will not allow the big, strong Seattle secondary to win the battle over the smaller SF receivers.

Good critique! I agree with this except that Walker needs to at least try and knock the DB on his rear end before he catches the ball. Maybe you are right and he just isn't good enough to do this but he has to try. I get tired of watching receivers watch guys intercept the ball.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 17, 2012 at 7:25 AM ]
Serious thought: Maybe the recievers would learn to attack the ball more if they actually had a QB that consistently put them in a position to do so. It seems to me that most of the balls thrown their way is when they are wide open, hence they dont get a lot of practice. However, if they had an aggressive QB that forced them to be better by making the harder throws, it would stand to reason they would get better at it.


P.S. D.Walker was not at fault for the INT. He totally had to break momentum and come back because it was underthrown or thrown very late.
It's funny how when our QB has a bad game, multiple threads like this are created or re-surface...
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Serious thought: Maybe the recievers would learn to attack the ball more if they actually had a QB that consistently put them in a position to do so. It seems to me that most of the balls thrown their way is when they are wide open, hence they dont get a lot of practice. However, if they had an aggressive QB that forced them to be better by making the harder throws, it would stand to reason they would get better at it.


P.S. D.Walker was not at fault for the INT. He totally had to break momentum and come back because it was underthrown or thrown very late.

Sorry, he was stopped and standing waiting for the ball. I'll watch it again just to be sure but that is my strong recollection. As far as Smith always hitting the receivers when they are open...ah...yeah...that would be a good thing right? Your argument would hold more water if Smith had not had games of nearly 80% completion rate this year.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Serious thought: Maybe the recievers would learn to attack the ball more if they actually had a QB that consistently put them in a position to do so. It seems to me that most of the balls thrown their way is when they are wide open, hence they dont get a lot of practice. However, if they had an aggressive QB that forced them to be better by making the harder throws, it would stand to reason they would get better at it.


P.S. D.Walker was not at fault for the INT. He totally had to break momentum and come back because it was underthrown or thrown very late.

It wasn't a good throw. I've already said that. However, it wasn't UNDERthrown. Smith was trying to fit it into the space between two defenders. The problem with the thrown was that it needed to be a line drive instead of a rainbow.

The problem with the other two picks was that the Giants disguised coverages and there just was no way to get the ball into the receiver. In both cases, Smith should have taken a sack instead of a chance. Bad choice.
My biggest criticism of the 49er receivers is that they do not work back to the ball on many plays. Even on crossing patterns good receivers know how to turn their bodies to shield defenders away from the ball. Too many times defenders have found it too easy to reach around the receiver to knock it down. Receivers MUST cross the face (run between the ball and the defender) of the DB and then adjust to the ball in such a way that the defender cannot make a play on it. They must also come BACK to the ball on curl routes. Too many times they just wait for the ball to get to them. Vernon Davis still has this habit and it drives me nuts. He has been here too long to still be sitting down waiting for the ball.

The other failure of the receivers is when Smith is under pressure or has to roll out, receivers MUST come out of their patterns and work back toward him. Crabtree has gotten a LITTLE better at that this year but he is still late reading the need to work back. The result is that the ball must be thrown away for lack of an available target.

As to this last point, part of that is on the play design. The 49ers use a lot of 2 receivers sets with the result being that there just are not enough available receivers to have one that has broken coverage and can work back.

Multiple issues but my main point is the failure to work back to the ball/QB when the pattern begins to break down. Will they learn with more PT? Stay tuned.
This has been an ongoing problem for sometime now. Manningham though is the only one I've noticed, who consistanly goes after the ball.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by 49erswillbeback:
First few words of this thread "Something I noticed during the game. The Delanie Walker INT could have been avoided had Delanie attacked the ball instead of waiting for it to land in his hands." Really? Alex threw a bad ball and now a thread is being made to cover up all his bad balls? WOW!

If you can remember that game in London vs the Broncos.. Troy Smith threw a rainbow jump-ball to Walker.. in between two DBs named Dawkins and Bailey. Walker high pointed the ball on quite a jump and hauled it in.. and that catch was big-time. People that never liked Alex were suddenly championing Troy. Not because the throw was remarkable.. but because Troy trusted his guy to go up and get the ball. This is really no different than what Alex did... and yet he is vilified vs Troy being celebrated for it. Now why do you suppose that is?

( not really asking... we all know it is because Alex can do no right and any QB not named Alex Smith will be applauded for such a throw. You can admit that, but I expect no one to do so )

I all honesty, it was a different pass. Troy was still able to get it slightly behind the DB whereas Alex punted and it was short. Saw Peyton Manning throw a ball last night with defenders in a similar position. But Manning zipped it to the sidelines but high enough so player could undercut it. Smith threw it like a wheel route that was supposed to have no FS over the top.

It was just a bad throw. The difference between allowing a receiver to make a play on a ball and a ball getting picked is inches. Alex is usually a few inches off...like the one to Manningham that was a few inches too far to the inside and Manningham is a receiver who gets the ball so no excuses on that one? We are focusing way too much on the Walker pass but ignoring other throws that were off. It's not just one receiver but multiple throws.

An inch off makes a possible circus catch into an interception.

Wrong about a couple of things. The throw was basically the same.. same arc. Same TE/WR that had a shot at it. Only significant difference was that Walker was still running and then would have had to plant and jump.. which there was time for, had he the skills. The other thing you are wrong about is saying it was a poor throw. The ball was right in line for Walker had the FS not been there... but he was. That's why if anything, it was a poor decision. Alex thought the FS committed to the inside route to Rio.. but the FS quickly flipped his coverage to stay over on Walker.

Bottom line is that we have seen Walker come down with such a pass anyway.. and the pass was lauded back then for another QB. People wanted Alex to give his guys a chance... and he did give Walker a chance.. and Walker didn't have the tracking +/or effort to go and get the ball. The FS wanted it more.

... and people wonder why Alex doesn't give his guys more chances when they aren't perfectly open?

The bold makes the biggest difference in the world. They were two different scenarios. One, Walker was pretty much at a standstill and was able to push and jump. The other, he was already running forward and was not able to standstill and jump.
Thank You! I think.