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O-line: All 5 starters grade out in top 5 at their position, Boon and davis ranked 2nd

Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You may be right...but 5 out of 12? I can see a couple like the two where rolled right, waiting for something to be open as long as he can and eventually takes a 2 yard sack...no biggie. But no way would I put 7 on him. I can see a couple coverage sacks. Like for instance, the back-to-back sacks in the last game. Alex drops back to hit Crabtree on the underneath drag route and the LB mauls him (grabs him and almost knocks him down). By the time Alex starts to look up field he has a DE on his back. To me that would be a 1/2 on the OL and half on coverage sack/scheme.

It would be nice if oldman9er or someone would objectively list out the sacks and where he thinks the fault lies knowing that some are combination reasons. And also note all the one Alex avoided, etc.

And to your last point, totally. Roman was just talking about that a couple weeks ago. Alex is coached to scramble but don't be discouraged to take a sack. Just don't fumble or throw a stupid TO. Alex's recent comments also highlighted this coaching on taking the higher % throws only save for VD, someone he can trust fully and who has 4 of the 5 TD's including one in the EZ on triple coverage. Great throw/catch!

Anyone willing to review oldman9ers play-by-play analysis and assign a real OL assessment of pas protection? We have all the film to back it up as well.

I agree with that. I wouldn't attribute 7 to him either, not even close to that. That means coverage sack is also something they must take into account in order to give the Oline only 5 sacks, which makes sense, and its something I didn't consider in my original post. Thanks for the reminder.

Can we spell subjective? Wow, if they start parsing the type of sack then they need to publish their definitions and give explanations. As faulty as it is I want every sack to be on the line as long as the QB is not outside the hash marks...where there is grounding there are sacks.

Oldman9er is gone and replaced by McGibblets...I'll have to find out where that cartoon comes from...
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 6, 2012 at 10:13 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You may be right...but 5 out of 12? I can see a couple like the two where rolled right, waiting for something to be open as long as he can and eventually takes a 2 yard sack...no biggie. But no way would I put 7 on him. I can see a couple coverage sacks. Like for instance, the back-to-back sacks in the last game. Alex drops back to hit Crabtree on the underneath drag route and the LB mauls him (grabs him and almost knocks him down). By the time Alex starts to look up field he has a DE on his back. To me that would be a 1/2 on the OL and half on coverage sack/scheme.

It would be nice if oldman9er or someone would objectively list out the sacks and where he thinks the fault lies knowing that some are combination reasons. And also note all the one Alex avoided, etc.

And to your last point, totally. Roman was just talking about that a couple weeks ago. Alex is coached to scramble but don't be discouraged to take a sack. Just don't fumble or throw a stupid TO. Alex's recent comments also highlighted this coaching on taking the higher % throws only save for VD, someone he can trust fully and who has 4 of the 5 TD's including one in the EZ on triple coverage. Great throw/catch!

Anyone willing to review oldman9ers play-by-play analysis and assign a real OL assessment of pas protection? We have all the film to back it up as well.

I agree with that. I wouldn't attribute 7 to him either, not even close to that. That means coverage sack is also something they must take into account in order to give the Oline only 5 sacks, which makes sense, and its something I didn't consider in my original post. Thanks for the reminder.

Can we spell subjective? Wow, if they start parsing the type of sack then they need to publish their definitions and give explanations. As faulty as it is I want every sack to be on the line as long as the QB is not outside the hash marks...where there is grounding there are sacks.

Oldman9er is gone and replaced by McGibblets...I'll have to find out where that cartoon comes from...
Yeah, it does come off as a bit convoluted.
Dtg, when we first drafted alex, had no OL, no protection, no coach, no nothing, alex was just a punching bag. Had no receivers either. Staley wouldv'e looked really good about then, but, we still would have needed 4 other OL guys. One of the very first things i penned about alex, was as you said, "maybe he would do better in shotgun" . It is still true, but with frank...and hunter...alex has to be under center . On "We're going to pass plays" alex is definitely better in shotgun. If you've ever played the positioin you know you can see the field about 100X better and right away too. But with our extraordinary running game alex is destined to be under center. Right now he rates right up there with 4 other guys as the top 5 QBs, and still , detractors bombard us with "alex did this" or alex didn't do "that". It is shameful, really, in that anyone writing that stuff didn't see alex take 5 yrs of physical and mental abuse, yet hung in there. The deal with noln was inexcusably bad...the guy had no business as a HC , any more than you or I. Alex is one tough and cool customer, yet some fans just pan the hell out of him. I often wonder how those guys would have held up under the same abuse that alex got physically. Not at all would be my guess. Jeez, we are one of the premier teams in the league, and just like lowell cohn and joe montana, he never could be good enough. That's what alex's complainers make me think of...lowell cohn.

As a thot, our OL is doing just fine thank you, because many forget the type of Ds we have been up against(excluding the woeful jets, pride of NY media). Our OL is just as tough as anyone's, but guys like Matthews are gonna hurt not just us, but anybody. Folks tend to forget that kind of stuff. I still think Coach can rejigger our O plan to better suit alex's game, but no question, alex has done everything his coach has asked. If we have a Matthews at OLB, we need to coach around that making allowances for him as requiring two guys each snap. Applies to julius pepper types, et al. Right now I don't think coach is exactly where he wants to be with OL and alex, but he is definitely working to get maximal production out of both. Compared to someone, say the jets, we are world's ahead of them. The bradys, formerly the Brees's, mannings...those are the guys we have to refine our O for. But all fans should not forget one thing...the 49ers are on of the 2 or 3 truly premier teams in the league, and are something like 6:1 to win it all. And I think they are better than that.
Pasodoc--was looking through stats and even if you take the 9er sacks out two of our opponents were top half sack teams. So we've played some good defenses. Our next four games will be tough as well. Arizona leads in sacks and Seattle is tied for 8th, Buffalo tied for 12th. NYG are lower but we all know their pass rush is decent if not good. As a matter of fact there are only two teams left who are in the bottom half in sacks--NO and NE. Yikes!

I hope this line becomes much better soon!
  • MILFS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 5,628
how long do we have boone signed for?
Originally posted by MILFS:
how long do we have boone signed for?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/alex-boone/

signed through the 2015 season...
Originally posted by MILFS:
how long do we have boone signed for?

he wont leave this team
I believe our O-line is one of the best out there. You win in the trenches. Our O-line will help us make that next step this year, to play in the big dance.
Staley rated number 4? He must be paying somebody to keep his name clean in the media because........
Originally posted by 49rz4Life:
Staley rated number 4? He must be paying somebody to keep his name clean in the media because........

That or Niner Talk is just flat out wrong.
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Originally posted by NCommand:
You may be right...but 5 out of 12? I can see a couple like the two where rolled right, waiting for something to be open as long as he can and eventually takes a 2 yard sack...no biggie. But no way would I put 7 on him. I can see a couple coverage sacks. Like for instance, the back-to-back sacks in the last game. Alex drops back to hit Crabtree on the underneath drag route and the LB mauls him (grabs him and almost knocks him down). By the time Alex starts to look up field he has a DE on his back. To me that would be a 1/2 on the OL and half on coverage sack/scheme.

It would be nice if oldman9er or someone would objectively list out the sacks and where he thinks the fault lies knowing that some are combination reasons. And also note all the one Alex avoided, etc.

And to your last point, totally. Roman was just talking about that a couple weeks ago. Alex is coached to scramble but don't be discouraged to take a sack. Just don't fumble or throw a stupid TO. Alex's recent comments also highlighted this coaching on taking the higher % throws only save for VD, someone he can trust fully and who has 4 of the 5 TD's including one in the EZ on triple coverage. Great throw/catch!

Anyone willing to review oldman9ers play-by-play analysis and assign a real OL assessment of pas protection? We have all the film to back it up as well.

I agree with that. I wouldn't attribute 7 to him either, not even close to that. That means coverage sack is also something they must take into account in order to give the Oline only 5 sacks, which makes sense, and its something I didn't consider in my original post. Thanks for the reminder.

If anyone checked my numbers I didn't do coverage sacks because I don't have coach's view. I credited to alex, ol, rb, te, etc who were blocking. Yeah and I agree somewhat with that one over the middle. I think he wanted to go to crabtree but he stumbled (might have been lb bumping him). He pulls it down and then Joe's guy gets him. Still, Joe got beat badly on the play. Ball would have probably been gone but I gave it to Staley but I can see how you can call that one a coverage sack. Like I said I didn't do coverage sacks so my totals are somewhat off.

Edit: and let me bring this up which probably hasn't been talked about much... penalties on OL: That has helped all their ratings. A few false starts.. maybe a couple of holds and a personal foul on anthony. Really has improved over the years. The amount of penalties by them in 4 games is equal to it use to be in 1 game (heck even a half at times)

edit again: I can certainly see how they have Staley at 5... i had 4.5 and .5 to davis, they have 5 and 0. Against GB Matthews blows up play, smith escapes and Anthony who had a good block but then let go and his guy got the sack. I am going back to recheck the one I had for Iupati. Ok, looking at it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=127t-EQxFS4&feature=youtu.be 25:00 a little after....... Iupati got beat... it was about 3 seconds, I can see why they call that coverage or on alex because alex should have dumped it off but Iupati didn't stick with his block and his guy made alex scramble... goodwin's guy finishes him off

36:45, that's the one i have on vernon. the play call wasn't the best with the flea flicker and I don't think anyone was open not that alex really had time to look. However, if VD doesn't get beat Alex has a clear lane to run about 30 yards with cbs running way down the field for a bomb.

39:50, the one I have on L.Davis. Anyone disagree that Leonard is totally at fault for that one. Misses his guy, blows up play... alex scrambles and someone elses guy takes him out.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Oct 6, 2012 at 9:24 PM ]
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
But NinerTalk says it's the Oline's fault Alex has struggled in the last two games. ....their not good enough....

there are other guys besides the starting 5 OL blocking... I have VD giving up 1, Miller giving up 1, Leonard Davis on 1. Also, Alex has escaped a few times to save some guys from sacks but I guess it evens out because he took a few that he shouldn't have.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by 49rz4Life:
Staley rated number 4? He must be paying somebody to keep his name clean in the media because........

That or Niner Talk is just flat out wrong.

Considering that ProFootballFocus is about as an objective analysis site that you'll find, and that Joe Staley is considered a very solid player everywhere but 49erswebzone.com I would assume the latter probably closer to the truth. He can struggle from time to time against guys like Clay Matthews and Jared Allen but there isn't a LT in the NFL right now that can claim otherwise. He's a very reliable LT and we are lucky to have him.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by 49rz4Life:
Staley rated number 4? He must be paying somebody to keep his name clean in the media because........

That or Niner Talk is just flat out wrong.

Considering that ProFootballFocus is about as an objective analysis site that you'll find, and that Joe Staley is considered a very solid player everywhere but 49erswebzone.com I would assume the latter probably closer to the truth. He can struggle from time to time against guys like Clay Matthews and Jared Allen but there isn't a LT in the NFL right now that can claim otherwise. He's a very reliable LT and we are lucky to have him.

Couldn't agree more breh.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
That or Niner Talk is just flat out wrong.

Once again, these stats are really very subjective. A coverage sack assumes a great deal, unless you make it any sack over a three second mark. So hard to quantify these things objectively. PFF was started by a business consultant and is made up of volunteers/semi-volunteers with varying degrees of knowledge. Not sure I trust them more than the Bleacher Report. Although I could not (quickly) find much data on their research standards. I would think the sports magazines would have a little higher level of professionalism. Not sure about NFL.com

I hesitate to criticize Staley when the middle is pushed back and his guy has a direct line to Smith, who can't step up...that should be at least a shared sack. The fact that Staley has faced most of the great pass rushers seems a double edge sword...would you put your best pass rusher on the best OLineman or the worst? Some teams may not move guys around as much, so it would take more analysis to make a really informed opinion.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 6, 2012 at 9:44 PM ]