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Would Peyton have been a better fit than Alex?

Member Milestone: This is post number 400 for aTx49er.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
The one thing that I strongly disagree with you on, is that Manning's ability to read a defense would go to waste in Harbaugh's offense. The Alex crowd said over and over again last year that Alex was able to change the play presnap if his presnap read told him to do so. So either they are flat out wrong, or your write up about Mannings reads would go to waste is flat out wrong.

Just assuming that the Alex camp is the side that is wrong, and Manning wouldnt be allowed to change plays at his leisure, his presnap reads of defenses are still a HUGE asset that would have helped our team. His ability to identify where blitzers are coming from would do wonders for our offensive line (something Alex hasnt shown the ability to do).

And also, assuming that Joe Buck and Troy Aikman werent lying on the broadcast this weekend, Peyton is adapting the the Broncos system, not the other way around. To assume that Peyton wouldnt adapt to our system is nothing more than that. An assumption.

Actually, Peyton is running the Broncos system but it's more of a hybrid with stuff that he's implemented from his old system. The Broncos are being smart by being flexible with their system in regards to Mannings strengths.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/08/28/broncos-offense-peyton-manning-lance-ball/
  • Oscar
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Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
The one thing that I strongly disagree with you on, is that Manning's ability to read a defense would go to waste in Harbaugh's offense. The Alex crowd said over and over again last year that Alex was able to change the play presnap if his presnap read told him to do so. So either they are flat out wrong, or your write up about Mannings reads would go to waste is flat out wrong.

Just assuming that the Alex camp is the side that is wrong, and Manning wouldnt be allowed to change plays at his leisure, his presnap reads of defenses are still a HUGE asset that would have helped our team. His ability to identify where blitzers are coming from would do wonders for our offensive line (something Alex hasnt shown the ability to do).

And also, assuming that Joe Buck and Troy Aikman werent lying on the broadcast this weekend, Peyton is adapting the the Broncos system, not the other way around. To assume that Peyton wouldnt adapt to our system is nothing more than that. An assumption.

Actually, Peyton is running the Broncos system but it's more of a hybrid with stuff that he's implemented from his old system. The Broncos are being smart by being flexible with their system in regards to Mannings strengths.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/08/28/broncos-offense-peyton-manning-lance-ball/

Preeeeeeecisely.
Manning would have been better. We wouldn't be saying our o line looks bad when the guy back there is reading defenses pre snap and reading defenses while droppin back then getting the ball to the appropriate wr in roughly 2 seconds.

Coaching - check
Weapons - check
Continuity - check

Now its still the pass protection? QB has little to do with all that huh.....

Eventually Alex will run out if excuses. He better put up this year or the debate is pretty much over.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
My only worry would have been:

Denver O-line > 49ers O-line

I still worry about pass protection.

Other than that... Peyton is just a better QB than Alex. I think that's something we can all agree on.

I guess there's the money issue, too. Lulz.

This pretty much sums it up.

It doesnt sum up anything. Why does everyone see Peyton as a guy who has to play behind some elite offensive line rather than a QB who makes his OL better (which is the clearly the case....look at the last two seasons sack numers in INDY as evidence). Peyton identifies blitzes presnap better than maybe anyone who has ever played the game. He would make out OL look way better than Alex makes it look.

Alex has been pretty good against the blitz. So spotting the blitz probably isn't the issue. The line has had issue with straight pressure. This is where mobility > pre-read IMO. A healty 100% Manning certainly would be fine...but the guy out there right now would worry me. I could be wrong and freely admit it...but with our line I am concerned. A little noticed fact, Denver's line wasn't made better this year by Manning. It was amazing last year as well. Maybe another reason Manning chose Denver?

Mobility can be one of two things. One, it could be being able to scramble out of the pocket and avoid the rushers by running away. This is what Alex is pretty good at. The second would be being able to sidestep rushers and move around in the pocket. This is another thing Manning is good at.

So while I agree, Alex is mobile enough to outrun rushers, Manning simply sidesteps them and completes passes down field. Add this skill to his presnap reads, he makes his offensive lines look much better than they are. So I dont think our OL would be the reason Manning wouldnt fit here. At all.
Delightful rehashing... thanks so much Oscar and (presumably) Cowboys fan Richard.
Not with his salary demands.
  • Garcia
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Peyton is a runningback so no .
Originally posted by Oscar:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
The one thing that I strongly disagree with you on, is that Manning's ability to read a defense would go to waste in Harbaugh's offense. The Alex crowd said over and over again last year that Alex was able to change the play presnap if his presnap read told him to do so. So either they are flat out wrong, or your write up about Mannings reads would go to waste is flat out wrong.

Just assuming that the Alex camp is the side that is wrong, and Manning wouldnt be allowed to change plays at his leisure, his presnap reads of defenses are still a HUGE asset that would have helped our team. His ability to identify where blitzers are coming from would do wonders for our offensive line (something Alex hasnt shown the ability to do).

And also, assuming that Joe Buck and Troy Aikman werent lying on the broadcast this weekend, Peyton is adapting the the Broncos system, not the other way around. To assume that Peyton wouldnt adapt to our system is nothing more than that. An assumption.

Actually, Peyton is running the Broncos system but it's more of a hybrid with stuff that he's implemented from his old system. The Broncos are being smart by being flexible with their system in regards to Mannings strengths.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/08/28/broncos-offense-peyton-manning-lance-ball/

Preeeeeeecisely.

What would you call what Harbaugh is doing with Kaepernick? Is he running the same system with Kaep as he is with Alex? I think the answer should be obvious that its a no. Harbaugh is playing to Kaepernicks strength. Much like he would do with Manning. To assume otherwise is ridiculous. Harbaugh has his own set way to do things, but to say he wouldnt be willing to adapt a little while coaching one of the best QBs in NFL history is a really dumb assumption. Hes already showing you how he can change things to help his QB with the guys we have on our own team.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Makes perfect sense to me. See the answers above. To summarize: When taking into account cost, value, team structure, team members, coaching philosophy, and offensive philosophy (among other things), I believe that Smith is the better fit for THIS TEAM TODAY. Would I take Smith over Manning in a vacuum? Hell no.


I get what you are saying, but with that logic you could also say that Trent Dilfer was a better fit for the Ravens in 2001 than Peyton Manning would have been. It just doesn't sound right to me.


You're referring to the year that the Ravens won the Super Bowl? They won the Super Bowl. That's the pinnacle, the highest achievement. I know Dilfer was never great (or good), but it's hard to argue that he wasn't a good fit for the team that accomplished that.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
My only worry would have been:

Denver O-line > 49ers O-line

I still worry about pass protection.

Other than that... Peyton is just a better QB than Alex. I think that's something we can all agree on.

I guess there's the money issue, too. Lulz.

This pretty much sums it up.

It doesnt sum up anything. Why does everyone see Peyton as a guy who has to play behind some elite offensive line rather than a QB who makes his OL better (which is the clearly the case....look at the last two seasons sack numers in INDY as evidence). Peyton identifies blitzes presnap better than maybe anyone who has ever played the game. He would make out OL look way better than Alex makes it look.

Alex has been pretty good against the blitz. So spotting the blitz probably isn't the issue. The line has had issue with straight pressure. This is where mobility > pre-read IMO. A healty 100% Manning certainly would be fine...but the guy out there right now would worry me. I could be wrong and freely admit it...but with our line I am concerned. A little noticed fact, Denver's line wasn't made better this year by Manning. It was amazing last year as well. Maybe another reason Manning chose Denver?

Mobility can be one of two things. One, it could be being able to scramble out of the pocket and avoid the rushers by running away. This is what Alex is pretty good at. The second would be being able to sidestep rushers and move around in the pocket. This is another thing Manning is good at.

So while I agree, Alex is mobile enough to outrun rushers, Manning simply sidesteps them and completes passes down field. Add this skill to his presnap reads, he makes his offensive lines look much better than they are. So I dont think our OL would be the reason Manning wouldnt fit here. At all.

I have not seen Manning do much of that this preseason. Granted, I have not watched more than a little of his seahawks game and the 9er game. What I've noticed is him releasing the ball before taking a hit for the most part.

I think Manning would do well with our offense. In fact, I suspect that he'd do better than Alex even if I am absolutely right about the mobility issue. With that said, what I am concerned about is that he would take more hits with our line than he does with Denvers despite any strength your argument may have. Even if Manning had an edge over Alex in avoiding the rush, our line was one of the most pourous lines of a winning team last season. Meanwhile, Denver was one of the best at pass blocking.One of those hits could end his season or career. I don't think it is worth the risk.
Originally posted by ninermedic:
You're referring to the year that the Ravens won the Super Bowl? They won the Super Bowl. That's the pinnacle, the highest achievement. I know Dilfer was never great (or good), but it's hard to argue that he wasn't a good fit for the team that accomplished that.

I could argue that if the Ravens had a better QB they would have won more than one superbowl
  • Oscar
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Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by Oscar:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
The one thing that I strongly disagree with you on, is that Manning's ability to read a defense would go to waste in Harbaugh's offense. The Alex crowd said over and over again last year that Alex was able to change the play presnap if his presnap read told him to do so. So either they are flat out wrong, or your write up about Mannings reads would go to waste is flat out wrong.

Just assuming that the Alex camp is the side that is wrong, and Manning wouldnt be allowed to change plays at his leisure, his presnap reads of defenses are still a HUGE asset that would have helped our team. His ability to identify where blitzers are coming from would do wonders for our offensive line (something Alex hasnt shown the ability to do).

And also, assuming that Joe Buck and Troy Aikman werent lying on the broadcast this weekend, Peyton is adapting the the Broncos system, not the other way around. To assume that Peyton wouldnt adapt to our system is nothing more than that. An assumption.

Actually, Peyton is running the Broncos system but it's more of a hybrid with stuff that he's implemented from his old system. The Broncos are being smart by being flexible with their system in regards to Mannings strengths.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/08/28/broncos-offense-peyton-manning-lance-ball/

Preeeeeeecisely.

What would you call what Harbaugh is doing with Kaepernick? Is he running the same system with Kaep as he is with Alex? I think the answer should be obvious that its a no. Harbaugh is playing to Kaepernicks strength. Much like he would do with Manning. To assume otherwise is ridiculous. Harbaugh has his own set way to do things, but to say he wouldnt be willing to adapt a little while coaching one of the best QBs in NFL history is a really dumb assumption. Hes already showing you how he can change things to help his QB with the guys we have on our own team.

A couple of plays doesn't make an offensive system. I think that the system a coach prefers is a reflection of his personality. Harbaugh is controlled, measured, and prefers to work hard and grind it out. That's why his team sports blue work shirts on game days.

I'm not saying Peyton would be a bad fit. I'm saying that Alex Smith is a better fit. They can both be good, but I think that the ways in which Alex meshes with Harbaugh is better than the ways Manning would have.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
You're referring to the year that the Ravens won the Super Bowl? They won the Super Bowl. That's the pinnacle, the highest achievement. I know Dilfer was never great (or good), but it's hard to argue that he wasn't a good fit for the team that accomplished that.

I could argue that if the Ravens had a better QB they would have won more than one superbowl
Dilfer started 8 games during the SB year...he was cut before the next season began. The opportunity never arose.
Alex's contract-We lose basically nothing if he doesn't work out
Peytons contract- Who can we really resign? How is this good for the entire "team"? Do we even really need Peyton (1 SB in 14years), or is Alex/Kaep sufficient?
keep beating that horse.
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