Stock Up or Down? Updated through all 4 games

Originally posted by VA49er:
I know how you feel about Jennings. We brought in some competition this year. He is getting older though. BUt that probably isn't happening. I'm still not sure we only keep two TEs. Maybe. It's real risky though.

Yeah, IMO no way we get rid of Jennings but I think once they find his replacement after he retires the guy will probably have to be the LS and 3rd TE. I know how much they like to see guys be able to do multiple things. I don't think they will let the next guy just be a LS.

Ist team D. backfield, has some rust to clear. Rogers was expecting help form Dashon over the top on the first drive, plus some other plays they seemed to not be communicating with one another and the Viks O took advantage.

Cartwright surprised me, but the OL played well, still the RB has to see it and take advantage and he did, it only adds to his specialty of ST. So look for Dixon to be cut. LMJ showed he is behind and needs to get more familiar with the game as a RB and ST player. Bradon Jacobs, wasn't sure when we signed, but he looked good in his first game, hopefully he will look better as he gets more familiar with the OL. Hunter in mid-form. As a whole, won't have to worry about the run game. Bruce Miller looks even better now that he is more familiar and comfortable with his position.

WR-all the young kids looked good. Which you like, but downside is if they keep doing what they do, will be hard to hide them for ps. Including TE garbage man Reuland.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Well.. Kendall Hunter got thrown down just as Kyle was deciding where to cut. I think the presence of Hunter's "carcass" made Kyle decide to jump to avoid stumbling over Hunter. Hunter's helmet was basically touching the left foot of Kyle's. So had Hunter not been there at his feet? I'd say Kyle should certainly not have jumped and simply cut right or stay straight left of the LB # 51. Kyle's a wild child, to be sure... but I have a hard time blaming him for doing what he did there.

FWIW I think that was McBath not Hunter. They both wore #32 last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eofs1DlQWkU&feature=youtu.be

at about 43:30... looks like mcbath was on the far side (as williams caught the ball) and hunter was the one who fell in front of Kyle. So both were out there on the return. Yeah, seeing it with better quality Hunter was right at his feet but I don't think he was jumping over him as much as the defender who was on his knees but he sprung back up. I don't think Kyle had to leap and if he didn't and just cut right he could have had a lot more yards. He might have stumbled a bit before he leaps which he does stumble a lot out there. That kind of threw him off. He is a bit wreckless though... not sure if it is a good thing or bad.

Originally posted by Thorhawk:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Any assessments on Boone? I know Davis was mauling people but couldn't get a read on Boone. Good assessments!

from Mike Sando "New right guard Alex Boone caught my attention with aggressive blocking in the run game."

Like to hear this for sure.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by VA49er:
AFTER GAME 1:

Anthony Dixon - Stock Down - Totally agree. His playing fullback is showing he's desperate to make this team some how some way. Dixon just continues to play below his potential. He plays hard, which is why he does well on special teams, but not smart. He just doesn't make good reads with the ball.

Rock Cartwright - Stock the same/slight uptick. He is taking Dixon's job for sure. Hard to imagine us carrying Cartwright, Gore, Jacobs, James, and Hunter. Five backs? To be honest the temptation for me would be to cut James. Too bad James can't be hidden on the practice squad. Cartwright might become a luxury.

Eric Bakhtiari - Stock Up - Stock was way up. He wasn't playing top tier guys but he sure got to the passer very well and had a high motor at OLB. Can he cover?

Demarcus Dobbs - Stock Up - Wearing#40 tells me this guys roster spot is a lock. I think we have plans for him on offense.

Perrish Cox - Stock the same -He stood out because he picked the ball off and he made some good hits. Looks like he'll make the team.

WRs -
Owusu -Stock up. This guys is making a case not to be cut. It's hard to imagine him making the team though. Who do you cut? Moss Crabs Williams Ginn and Jenkins should make the team. I think Owusu is probably 6 right now. You can probably hide others on the PS.

AJ Jenkins - I was impressed enough and will be patient with a 1st round pick. He ran good routes. Had a late ball from Kaep. Made a nice catch. He'll settle down. I actually like Owusu better right now though.

All other wideouts=stock down. Somebody has to be cut and though they looked nice but nobody made a case to bump Jenkins. Which is what you have to do based on what I saw from Owusu. I think we keep 6 May the best 6 win. Hopefully we have some depth on the PS.

Scott Tolzien - Stock Up - I trust this guy to run the O. He deserves to be on the team. He flashes some serious potential. No way we keep Kaep and Johnson. People forget that Smith ain't bad on his feet either. Johnson is probably on the outs right now.

Colin Kaepernick - Stock the same. -Great run but he has not shown he deserves to be the #1. I'm also not convinced he's the #2. But I'd rather sharpen his skills than Johnson at this point.

LaMichael James - Stock down. -Does he really do anything that Hunter Can't?

.Konrad Reuland - Stock Up - Mostly because Byham didn't play because of his injury. We have lots of extra blockers but Reuland provides a pass catching threat. Can he play FB? We go with three TEs.

Brandon Jacobs - Stock Up - Old self? He has never looked like he was in this kind of shape. He is complicating the backfield more than anyone. Can we keep 5 RBs?

Alex Boone - Stock Up - Love this guy. Totally biased. I'm only seeing good.

Leonard Davis.-Stock up. ?? Can this guy play tackle? I mean if he can play two positions he's great depth.

KENDALL HUNTER!! STOCK UP!! Great game. Looks good. Looked like a starter.

ALEX SMITH-stock up. Looked great on the opening drive. Was sharp, made a great decision and read in the redzone which made the throw secondary.

KYLE WILLIAMS-STOCK UP. Loved that he started at PR. He looked good back there and confident. He also played well at wideout. I know he had a bad day @ the NFC-C but he is going to make this team.

Couple comments.

1. I think you're forgetting about Manningham. Don't really see a spot for any of the UDFA WR's on the 53. Hopefully 2 of Palmer, Tynes, and Owusu can make it onto the practice squad.

2. Keeping 5 backs isn't unheard of. Last year we kept 5. No way we cut James. There is just no way. Given how much we run the ball, I don't think it's unreasonable. I think it comes down to Dixon and Cartwright for the final RB spot. Both are great special teams players but it comes down to how well they can run the ball. Based on where they entered the game, I think Cartwright has the clear edge at this point.

Agree. I believe we keep Cartwright and cut Dixon. I really hope we can get Tyms to the practice squad too develop. Love his combination of size and speed so far. Would like to see more of him this preseason for sure. Think he would fit in really well in our WCO.

Originally posted by Gore_21:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eofs1DlQWkU&feature=youtu.be

at about 43:30... looks like mcbath was on the far side (as williams caught the ball) and hunter was the one who fell in front of Kyle. So both were out there on the return. Yeah, seeing it with better quality Hunter was right at his feet but I don't think he was jumping over him as much as the defender who was on his knees but he sprung back up. I don't think Kyle had to leap and if he didn't and just cut right he could have had a lot more yards. He might have stumbled a bit before he leaps which he does stumble a lot out there. That kind of threw him off. He is a bit wreckless though... not sure if it is a good thing or bad.

Thanks for your take here. We should all remember that in the moment, these guys have to make split-second decisions. It is easy for us to look back in hindsight and assess, but these guys are moving quick out there and often make decisions on pure instinct. I'm okay with what Kyle did... because he gained yards, held on to the ball, and didn't get injured.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Thanks for your take here. We should all remember that in the moment, these guys have to make split-second decisions. It is easy for us to look back in hindsight and assess, but these guys are moving quick out there and often make decisions on pure instinct. I'm okay with what Kyle did... because he gained yards, held on to the ball, and didn't get injured.

Yeah, I hear ya. Not knocking him. If we didn't have Ginn I would be lobbying for him to start. I just hope as the season goes on he stays in control because he is running crazy hellbent out there and that might be a good thing but some times when you push too hard you make big mistakes.

Originally posted by Gore_21:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Thanks for your take here. We should all remember that in the moment, these guys have to make split-second decisions. It is easy for us to look back in hindsight and assess, but these guys are moving quick out there and often make decisions on pure instinct. I'm okay with what Kyle did... because he gained yards, held on to the ball, and didn't get injured.

Yeah, I hear ya. Not knocking him. If we didn't have Ginn I would be lobbying for him to start. I just hope as the season goes on he stays in control because he is running crazy hellbent out there and that might be a good thing but some times when you push to hard to make big mistakes.

No doubt.. point taken, and I can only hope that Kyle keeps this in mind.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Is Cartwright really captain of special teams? I thought the captains weren't announced yet.

Keeping 6 RBs is a tough call.

he will be trust me. he is given little credit by most but to me i think he is in the top three of new people we brought on board this year

Originally posted by VA49er:
It does seem crazy. I don't think anyone suggested cutting James. I sure didn't. If 6 backs are kept it's down to cartwright/dixon. But the numbers are going to be tight. How does dobbs free up a wideout? You are right about the challenge. But really it is about 6 backs/6wideouts. Because that costs you depth at big man positions. I think we will keep three actual tight ends. Dobbs can get out and block but he won't be a receiving threat if Davis or Walker get hurt.

No need to carry that huge post into the next page lol. Its buried in there somewhere or possibly another post in this thread but it made me LOL. Using Dobbs as a DE and a #3 TE frees up a roster spot(cutting Byham and using Dobbs as #3 TE behind VD and DW) which can be used to carry the #6 WR that we obviously need after last year clearly showed us.

Yes it really is 6 RB/FBs so its 5 RBs 1 FB. A typical NFL roster carries 3 RBs and 2 FBs occasionally teams only use 1 FB but that is a normal about 5 RB/FBs so by adding 1 RB we only need to free up one spot, based off of last years 53 man roster we carried 5 ILBS, Costanzo was ST only, just like Cartwright is supposed to be for us. If we only carry 4 ILBs then we can just transplant that spot that Costanzo took up over to RBs and have nothing change.

Last year I believe we also carried 5 safeties and it looks like we might carry 4 this year plus Michael Thomas on PS hopefully.

Originally posted by Gore_21:
I was just going through based off memory and the players that stood out to me but that's a good idea. I'll organize it and then do that for the rest of the games.

The layout looks much better. Nice job friend

I will enjoy checking back and reading your input.

Lemichael James and AJ Jenkins where drafted how Walsh drafts players. Baalke and Harbaugh are drafting for the future. No draft picks will be counted on to be starters on offense or defense, they will be key back ups, specialists, or play on special teams.

AJ Jenkins will be in top 2 or 3 WR's by 2013/2014
LeMichael James might even be inactive game day in 2012, and have a break out year when he shares the load when Gore is gone.

Originally posted by 9erred:
Lemichael James and AJ Jenkins where drafted how Walsh drafts players. Baalke and Harbaugh are drafting for the future. No draft picks will be counted on to be starters on offense or defense, they will be key back ups, specialists, or play on special teams.

AJ Jenkins will be in top 2 or 3 WR's by 2013/2014
LeMichael James might even be inactive game day in 2012, and have a break out year when he shares the load when Gore is gone.

I have mentioned this before in other threads that we drafted Jenkins and James for the future so I fully agree. Don't be surprised to see Jenkins inactive for games this year... maybe even some for James. I think James can contribute more this year than Jenkins but they are for the future. For all we know Jacobs could be gone next year, Gore maybe 2 years from now... Moss and Ginn are free agents... Manningham we only have for 2 years. So fully agree... I expect James to take over the load with Hunter in 2-3 years and Jenkins to be a 1, 2 or at worst slot within 1-2 years while contributing as role players in the mean time.

Originally posted by Gore_21:

Originally posted by 9erred:
Lemichael James and AJ Jenkins where drafted how Walsh drafts players. Baalke and Harbaugh are drafting for the future. No draft picks will be counted on to be starters on offense or defense, they will be key back ups, specialists, or play on special teams.

AJ Jenkins will be in top 2 or 3 WR's by 2013/2014
LeMichael James might even be inactive game day in 2012, and have a break out year when he shares the load when Gore is gone.

I have mentioned this before in other threads that we drafted Jenkins and James for the future so I fully agree. Don't be surprised to see Jenkins inactive for games this year... maybe even some for James. I think James can contribute more this year than Jenkins but they are for the future. For all we know Jacobs could be gone next year, Gore maybe 2 years from now... Moss and Ginn are free agents... Manningham we only have for 2 years. So fully agree... I expect James to take over the load with Hunter in 2-3 years and Jenkins to be a 1, 2 or at worst slot within 1-2 years while contributing as role players in the mean time.

Right now I don't see Jenkins and James active for games. Clearly Gore, Jacobs, Hunter and Rock will and should play ahead of James, and Mario, Moss, Crabtree, Ginn and Williams should/will play ahead of Jenkins.

I think we probably go 4 WR active on game days, so thats Moss, Mario, Crabtree and Ginn, with 4 RBs, Gore, Jacobs, Hunter and Rock, 1 FB, Miller, 2 QBs, Alex and Kaep, with 7 OL, Boone, L.Davis, A.Davis, Iupati, Staley, Goodwin and Kilgore or Person, 2 TEs, Delanie and Vernon

On defense, its 6 DL, Justin, McDonald, Isaac, RJF, Tukuafu and Dobbs, 8 LBs, would be Willis, Bowman, Grant, Gooden, Brooks, Aldon, Haralson and whoever is 4th OLB, if there is one. Then 4 CBs for sure, Rogers, Brown, Cully and Cox, Safeties would be Goldson, Whitner, Spillman, Robinson and Jones, STs would be Akers, Lee and Jennings.

Thats a total of 46, so we can keep a 5th WR, if James isn't active, so Kyle could be active, or if they feel need for CB, whoever is 5th CB. Obvious inactive, 3rd QB, Looney, Person or Kilgore, Jenkins, James, potentially Williams(Ian) if we keep him, and either the CB or Williams(Kyle).

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Right now I don't see Jenkins and James active for games. Clearly Gore, Jacobs, Hunter and Rock will and should play ahead of James, and Mario, Moss, Crabtree, Ginn and Williams should/will play ahead of Jenkins.

I think we probably go 4 WR active on game days, so thats Moss, Mario, Crabtree and Ginn, with 4 RBs, Gore, Jacobs, Hunter and Rock, 1 FB, Miller, 2 QBs, Alex and Kaep, with 7 OL, Boone, L.Davis, A.Davis, Iupati, Staley, Goodwin and Kilgore or Person, 2 TEs, Delanie and Vernon

On defense, its 6 DL, Justin, McDonald, Isaac, RJF, Tukuafu and Dobbs, 8 LBs, would be Willis, Bowman, Grant, Gooden, Brooks, Aldon, Haralson and whoever is 4th OLB, if there is one. Then 4 CBs for sure, Rogers, Brown, Cully and Cox, Safeties would be Goldson, Whitner, Spillman, Robinson and Jones, STs would be Akers, Lee and Jennings.

Thats a total of 46, so we can keep a 5th WR, if James isn't active, so Kyle could be active, or if they feel need for CB, whoever is 5th CB. Obvious inactive, 3rd QB, Looney, Person or Kilgore, Jenkins, James, potentially Williams(Ian) if we keep him, and either the CB or Williams(Kyle).

I agree with most of that AB but I could see us rotating inactives depending on the game. Maybe Jones or Robinson sit... don't think we need all 5 S although of course there is special teams to think about. I'm not so sure Jones is even a lock. Maybe against weaker run defenses or weaker teams we give James some playing time. Maybe Williams is active most of the games but then a few they give Jenkins a shot. I'm not saying they will be active often (at least not Jenkins) but I see them finding a way to get them active. I think they will rotate the WRs a lot. Like I said maybe it's an easier team, maybe the last game as well if we have nothing to gain. I don't see how they can go all 16 games of the season without activating each a few times. Like I said they are for the future but to me that would do neither of them any good to not play 1 down. Also, if Dobbs ends up being the 3rd TE no way he is inactive but if not maybe they have him or Tukuafa backing up both DE spots and one of them sits.

Side note though... why in the heck do they have to limit it to 46 of the 53 players? Why does it matter if the last 7 guys suit up and stand on the sidelines. If every team does 53 how is it an advantage? I don't see any point in it and it can punish teams/players. The 3rd QB is instantly on it correct so it's 8 total but 7 other than the 3rd QB.

edit: found this for others interested... just not sure it's needed

15 minutes before a regulation NFL game, both teams must present an "Inactive" list of 8 players to the officials. That means of a team's 53 man roster, only 45 may participate in the game itself. The lone exception is if the team has a 3rd string quarterback on the inactive list. There are separate rules for the 3rd string QB and how he may participate in a game, if at all. The question then is, why have an inactive list? It's an attempt by the NFL to create a competitive balance on game day. Due to the brutal nature of the sport, a team can carry players on its 53 man roster that may be too injured to play in that game, but not so injured that they need to be put on Injured Reserve and miss the rest of the season.

Having an inactive list that removes 8 players on game day, basically guarantees that both teams will have the same number of healthy players available on game day, whether or not the 8 inactive players are truly injured. I do not know why 8 was chosen.

Quite naturally, the reasoning for an inactive list is controversial. Teams still must pay the inactive player their entire game day salary, and must pay to transport, feed, and lodge their inactive players on road trips. Also, limiting the amount of active players puts more players at risk of injury as it is more difficult to rest starters in blowouts, and regular players must also contribute more on special teams.