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Ted Ginn Jr. could be in danger of being cut.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Laugh all you want but its fact. Anyways keep dodging, your good at it. You come in a post totally false stats, which i debunk, then you only comment on personal opinions, which we are all entitled to, and ignore the facts placed before you. You obviously never watched Ginn in miami.

Im getting used to your posts. They always add sooo much to the discussion.

i don't post any totally false stats Ginn 98 PR's (fact) 223 KR's (fact) Ginn lost 6 fumbles (Fact)
Williams 5 punts (fact) 8 kicks (fact) lost 2 fumbles (fact)


More facts for you that debunk the fact that Ginn was on his way out of the league

2007- 9th in punt returns
2010- the year he was about to be run out of the league he was 3rd
2011- 4th (actually worse than the year you said he was about to be run out of the league)

2007- 3rd in kick/punt return yards
2009- 7th
2011- 6th

Ginn was obviously terrible in Miami I could go on for days

Here's your link which according to you is totally false
http://www.pro-football-reference.com

add enough to the discussion?

wrong. I posted those stats. you came in and posted ginns TOTAL attempt on both kick and punt, then tried to compare those to KW's 12 attempts total. I corrected you and now your are coming back and posting the stats that i already posted. 2010 and 2011 he was on the niners. so i dunno why your even posting those stats. The running out of the league was infering that had we not traded for him he would have been released and chances are he would have had a hard time finding a landing spot. Fact is we were desperate for a return man and took a chance that paid off.

2007 was his rookie year. He had statistically good #'s but still had problems controlling the football, and as mentioned earlier muffs are not part of the statistics.

You also convieniently leave out his 2008 and 2009 seasons, one of which he was benched because he could not hold onto the football...

He ha always been a pretty good KICK returner, but we are not talking about that are we?
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
Yea Ginn was always a good return man. It's just that Miami couldn't justify that being a top ten pick. Niners got exactly what they were wanting out of him with the trade. He is immensely more valuable to this team than KW.

This Ginn was never a top 10 pick but a premier return man is his gig

No. He has always been a good KICK returner, but thats not what we are discussing. we are discussing PUNT returns. He was benched in that regard because he was aweful at holding onto the ball. Some of you may not realize this, but Kick and punt returns are not the same thing.
Ginn started 26/32 games in 2008/2009

comparing Ginn and Williams 1st years as a WR

Ginn 2007 (9 games) 34 catches 420 yards 2 Td's
Williams 2011 (13 games) 20 catches 241 yards 3 td's
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Ginn started 26/32 games in 2008/2009

comparing Ginn and Williams 1st years as a WR

Ginn 2007 (9 games) 34 catches 420 yards 2 Td's
Williams 2011 (13 games) 20 catches 241 yards 3 td's

WTF are you talking about? Did i ever say he was benched as a WR or KR?

Some of you really like to dance around the topic at hand. I have and still am talking about punts.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Ginn started 26/32 games in 2008/2009

comparing Ginn and Williams 1st years as a WR

Ginn 2007 (9 games) 34 catches 420 yards 2 Td's
Williams 2011 (13 games) 20 catches 241 yards 3 td's

WTF are you talking about? Did i ever say he was benched as a WR or KR?

Some of you really like to dance around the topic at hand. I have and still am talking about punts.
Yes and we all saw what Williams can do returning punts. The thread is about Ginn and so we've been comparing him to Williams since he was our #2 returner last year.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Ginn started 26/32 games in 2008/2009

comparing Ginn and Williams 1st years as a WR

Ginn 2007 (9 games) 34 catches 420 yards 2 Td's
Williams 2011 (13 games) 20 catches 241 yards 3 td's

WTF are you talking about? Did i ever say he was benched as a WR or KR?

Some of you really like to dance around the topic at hand. I have and still am talking about punts.

He's been very good at returning both kicks AND punts in red and gold. What are you arguing about here? That you would keep a fifth string wr with absolutely NO return game over a return specialist who was one of the reasons our ST was so deadly last year (Akers, Lee, Ginn). For what? In the hopes that KW will all of a sudden blossom into the next Wes Welker? The guy has had 21 catches in 2 years. Hardly irreplaceable, Ginn had 19 catches for 220 yards as a receiver last year (1 catch and 20 yards less). Watch the NFCC game again and see who is the guy who is extremely more valuable than KW, if Ginn plays the Niners are playing for #6. Since Ginn has come over I have never felt nervous handling kicks OR punts, which is something tht has been lacking for this organization for a long time.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He's been very good at returning both kicks AND punts in red and gold. What are you arguing about here? That you would keep a fifth string wr with absolutely NO return game over a return specialist who was one of the reasons our ST was so deadly last year (Akers, Lee, Ginn). For what? In the hopes that KW will all of a sudden blossom into the next Wes Welker? The guy has had 21 catches in 2 years. Hardly irreplaceable, Ginn had 19 catches for 220 yards as a receiver last year (1 catch and 20 yards less). Watch the NFCC game again and see who is the guy who is extremely more valuable than KW, if Ginn plays the Niners are playing for #6. Since Ginn has come over I have never felt nervous handling kicks OR punts, which is something tht has been lacking for this organization for a long time.
some people want to cut a quarterback that led us to the nfc title game and give the keys to Ck. i am pretty sure ginn stays this year as coach makes an exception to his rule that a player who can multi task stands a better chance of making the team as compared to someone who can only do one thing very well. However next year someone better be ready to take that spot cuz i bet we will not resign him. we may be able to afford such a luxury this year but not next year
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Ginn started 26/32 games in 2008/2009

comparing Ginn and Williams 1st years as a WR

Ginn 2007 (9 games) 34 catches 420 yards 2 Td's
Williams 2011 (13 games) 20 catches 241 yards 3 td's

WTF are you talking about? Did i ever say he was benched as a WR or KR?

Some of you really like to dance around the topic at hand. I have and still am talking about punts.

He's been very good at returning both kicks AND punts in red and gold. What are you arguing about here? That you would keep a fifth string wr with absolutely NO return game over a return specialist who was one of the reasons our ST was so deadly last year (Akers, Lee, Ginn). For what? In the hopes that KW will all of a sudden blossom into the next Wes Welker? The guy has had 21 catches in 2 years. Hardly irreplaceable, Ginn had 19 catches for 220 yards as a receiver last year (1 catch and 20 yards less). Watch the NFCC game again and see who is the guy who is extremely more valuable than KW, if Ginn plays the Niners are playing for #6. Since Ginn has come over I have never felt nervous handling kicks OR punts, which is something tht has been lacking for this organization for a long time.

Yes he has been stellar in red and gold. i have already said that. The point i am and have been making is that people want to Condemn KW for two punt returns he had no buisness returning to begin with. Coaching blunder for sure. They even left him back there after the first one.

The point is people want KW cut because of his performance as PR, not as WR. So i made the point that ginn was not alway the PR he is now and that it is a tough position to learn.

I am in no way argueing that KW is or ever will be a Beter Kick returner, just that it is silly to condemn a man who hadnt returned a punt in over a year and was forced to do so in the biggest game in a decade.

if you dont think that KW has the bigger upside as a WR and think Ginn is a beter WR than i dont know what to say other than we can agree to disagree.
[ Edited by IdahoNiner on Jun 28, 2012 at 9:12 PM ]
After the NFC Championship game, how is this even a discussion

It's like saying that Kilgore could be the longsnapper just because he hikes the ball

Ginn had a few good moments as a WR. The end around is also always an option.

He has a skill that you don't get rid of until you know you have a replacement
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Yes he has been stellar in red and gold. i have already said that. The point i am and have been making is that people want to Condemn KW for two punt returns he had no buisness returning to begin with. Coaching blunder for sure. They even left him back there after the first one.

The point is people want KW cut because of his performance as PR, not as WR. So i made the point that ginn was not alway the PR he is now and that it is a tough position to learn.

I am in no way argueing that KW is or ever will be a Beter Kick returner, just that it is silly to condemn a man who hadnt returned a punt in over a year and was forced to do so in the biggest game in a decade.
idaho is right. the coaches were f**king stupid that game and should share the blame, when he dove for the first punt that was a cry for help for gods sake, he should have put reggie smith or hunter in there. and as i have said many times, if the team was going to cut him for those messups, it would have been done already. the hate for this kid cuz of a couple of mistakes he made in a football game that is now ancient history and means nothing right now is unreal
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by wysiwyg:
After the NFC Championship game, how is this even a discussion

It's like saying that Kilgore could be the longsnapper just because he hikes the ball

Ginn had a few good moments as a WR. The end around is also always an option.

He has a skill that you don't get rid of until you know you have a replacement
agree, ginn is the only person right now that should be allowed to run an end around
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Ginn started 26/32 games in 2008/2009

comparing Ginn and Williams 1st years as a WR

Ginn 2007 (9 games) 34 catches 420 yards 2 Td's
Williams 2011 (13 games) 20 catches 241 yards 3 td's

WTF are you talking about? Did i ever say he was benched as a WR or KR?

Some of you really like to dance around the topic at hand. I have and still am talking about punts.

He's been very good at returning both kicks AND punts in red and gold. What are you arguing about here? That you would keep a fifth string wr with absolutely NO return game over a return specialist who was one of the reasons our ST was so deadly last year (Akers, Lee, Ginn). For what? In the hopes that KW will all of a sudden blossom into the next Wes Welker? The guy has had 21 catches in 2 years. Hardly irreplaceable, Ginn had 19 catches for 220 yards as a receiver last year (1 catch and 20 yards less). Watch the NFCC game again and see who is the guy who is extremely more valuable than KW, if Ginn plays the Niners are playing for #6. Since Ginn has come over I have never felt nervous handling kicks OR punts, which is something tht has been lacking for this organization for a long time.

Yes he has been stellar in red and gold. i have already said that. The point i am and have been making is that people want to Condemn KW for two punt returns he had no buisness returning to begin with. Coaching blunder for sure. They even left him back there after the first one.

The point is people want KW cut because of his performance as PR, not as WR. So i made the point that ginn was not alway the PR he is now and that it is a tough position to learn.

I am in no way argueing that KW is or ever will be a Beter Kick returner, just that it is silly to condemn a man who hadnt returned a punt in over a year and was forced to do so in the biggest game in a decade.

if you dont think that KW has the bigger upside as a WR and think Ginn is a beter WR than i dont know what to say other than we can agree to disagree.

He showed in college that he buckles under the exact same scenario as the NFCC game. It's pretty clear that returning is something that he shouldn't be allowed to do.

And I also think that the upside thst KW supposedly has is very overrated. We can find 21 catches in 2 years in another mid to late rounder, one who doesn't have a history of injuries and bad decision making, and who CAN step in as a return man. As a 4th to 5th string WR you have to bring more to the table than being just a slot WR. He's never going to become a Wes Welker type as he lacks the thing that Welker has, brains.
Originally posted by cciowa:
idaho is right. the coaches were f**king stupid that game and should share the blame, when he dove for the first punt that was a cry for help for gods sake, he should have put reggie smith or hunter in there. and as i have said many times, if the team was going to cut him for those messups, it would have been done already. the hate for this kid cuz of a couple of mistakes he made in a football game that is now ancient history and means nothing right now is unreal

the decision should have been made to just let the punts fall. especially after the first blunder. Thats on harbaugh and seely. I love both but thats on them. They should have just said let it his the floor and forget about it. Instead they put him back out there. They were probally looking for a big play, especially since he had the nice kick return and the offense was stagnant. We needed a big play from anybody. He made a couple really bad mistakes yes, but he didnt singlehandedly lose the game by any means. People always like to bring up the score before the blunder a if the game had ended or something. there was still alot of football. no guarantee we would have won regardless.
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He showed in college that he buckles under the exact same scenario as the NFCC game. It's pretty clear that returning is something that he shouldn't be allowed to do.

And I also think that the upside thst KW supposedly has is very overrated. We can find 21 catches in 2 years in another mid to late rounder, one who doesn't have a history of injuries and bad decision making, and who CAN step in as a return man. As a 4th to 5th string WR you have to bring more to the table than being just a slot WR. He's never going to become a Wes Welker type as he lacks the thing that Welker has, brains.

guess we will have to agree to disagree about his potential as a WR. We will both find out this year though.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He showed in college that he buckles under the exact same scenario as the NFCC game. It's pretty clear that returning is something that he shouldn't be allowed to do.

And I also think that the upside thst KW supposedly has is very overrated. We can find 21 catches in 2 years in another mid to late rounder, one who doesn't have a history of injuries and bad decision making, and who CAN step in as a return man. As a 4th to 5th string WR you have to bring more to the table than being just a slot WR. He's never going to become a Wes Welker type as he lacks the thing that Welker has, brains.
who is to say he is not turning that corner right now. you have seen the reports that he is in great shape and mentally has not let the giants thing linger. he is also practicing kick returns in ota so the theory floated by some that he will not be allowed to return kicks this year has been blown out of the water already.the man makes a couple mistakes and he has no brains. wow. I am glad the zone was not around when roger craig fumbled the ball. I am sorry but there is just a childish mob mentality when it comes to kyle williams around here. if that raises my warning level, so be it