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Replacing Delanie Walker... Yes or No?

Replacing Delanie Walker... Yes or No?

Originally posted by Wodwo:
One thing to keep in mind:

All three of those TEs can line up at WR.

Hell, Walker was a WR in college.

I'm on the, "Let's wait and see what happens next season if we do draft Fleener before we start this discussion." bandwagon.

You guys like to jump the gun.

Newsflash: There is a reason Walker "was" a WR in college, but is not in the pros.
sfout summed it all up.

I was perplexed by how he disappeared in the second half of the season. Although mkmasn is right that our struggling OL required a lot of extra blocking help, so when he was in, he blocked a lot, and there were a lot of heavy personnel groups that put him on the sideline.

He is the "swiss army knife" guy. At 6' and 250 its mentioned that he can line up as a TE, H-back, WR, FB. But has he ever lined up at FB? With his size, it would be interesting to see if he could run the ball. He did return kick-offs for a while.
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by sfout:
if people are advocating for us to cut or trade him because we draft Fleener then they are just plain crazy, Walker will be on this team in 2012, its 2013 that is up in the air. Here is my take....

Reasons why Walker should be replaced as TE:
Size
Not the best hands
Inability to over power most safeties in a smilar manner a larger TE can

Reasons why we would draft Fleener a year before Walker's deal expires
We did the same thing with Aldon, one year before Brooks' deal was done, it just worked out that were phasing out Haralson instead of replacing Brooks
Walker is not a real TE, he is an H-back if not actually a FB or WR. He is a tweener in every sense of the word, 6 feet even, 250 pounds(a lot of the newer look RB/FBs are this size), he isn't fast enough to be a WR but he was fast enough to be converted to a TE instead of a FB/RB(pretty much the definition of a H-Back)

Will we make an effort to re-sign Walker if we draft Fleener? Of course we will, having 3 starting caliber TEs is better then having 2. Just like having 3 starting caliber OLBs is better then having 2 had we let Brooks walk.

Will Walker test the market next year regardless of the possibility of us drafting Fleener? Of course he will, he has shown flashes that he can be the #1 TE for any team in the NFL, at the very least he could go be the #2 of not #1b to a team like Chicago whose primary TE Kellen Davis is a bit on the slow side and not able to take advantage of playing slower OLBs and Safeties.

What all this boils down to? If Fleener is there at 30 you can bet your a** we will draft him, will we trade up for him? I'd say no, but if he is there he is the best possible pick for us due to his knowledge of the system, his physical size and leaping ability and great hands instantly upgrade our passing attack in all areas of the field and gameplay. It also provides us with insurance against DWalk leaving in FA just as Aldon did with Brooks potentially leaving.

I reiterate, his versatility as a TE, WR, RB, FB, OL, KR makes him nearly irreplaceable so the FO will likely value him fairly high and he'll likely be retained, but to stubbornly insist we shouldn't draft Fleener simply because DWalk is on the roster is just plain dumb, that is comparable to saying we have a serviceable if not pro bowl caliber Center so we shouldn't draft a backup or plan B even though he is old and on short term deal.

As JH says you never stay the same, you are either getting worse or getting better. If we dont add Fleener we'd effectively get worse, if we add him we get better, if we retain DWalk after the year then we will be better then we were going into the 2013 off season. Make sense?

GREAT POST! I agree on all fronts, to sum up my thoughts. We def have VD for the long haul as long as we have either Walker or Fleener I'm good w/the TE position. Now if we didn't draft Fleener and lost Walker then that would suck. Would love to see what Harbaugh could do with all 3 on the team.

+1 Nice analysis.
Originally posted by HearstFan:
sfout summed it all up.

I was perplexed by how he disappeared in the second half of the season. Although mkmasn is right that our struggling OL required a lot of extra blocking help, so when he was in, he blocked a lot, and there were a lot of heavy personnel groups that put him on the sideline.

He is the "swiss army knife" guy. At 6' and 250 its mentioned that he can line up as a TE, H-back, WR, FB. But has he ever lined up at FB? With his size, it would be interesting to see if he could run the ball. He did return kick-offs for a while.

I don't know how well he would do as a power runner, I just don't see him really keeping his feet moving enough to plow through a DLineman... although getting him into the backfield as a FB might be good for passing downs with some screens or swings or something where he could get some open field in the flat...
Keep Delanie, won't be tough to retain after 2012. Give him a 4yr extension. He can, like said, play TE, FB and WR. I would rather keep a guy we know can play at this level, then take a shot at a 1st rd TE, who is a good player, but no one knows if he is the second GRONK.

And If you take Fleener in rd 1, and say trade up for him, what does that say to Vernon? Because Vernon isn't being benched for a rookie. Just take a WR or OG and build those areas.
Originally posted by HearstFan:
sfout summed it all up.

I was perplexed by how he disappeared in the second half of the season. Although mkmasn is right that our struggling OL required a lot of extra blocking help, so when he was in, he blocked a lot, and there were a lot of heavy personnel groups that put him on the sideline.

He is the "swiss army knife" guy. At 6' and 250 its mentioned that he can line up as a TE, H-back, WR, FB. But has he ever lined up at FB? With his size, it would be interesting to see if he could run the ball. He did return kick-offs for a while.

I think I saw him line up at FB on a few occasions this year and previous years. And yeah Delanie returned Kicks, and wasn't bad at it either. Also Delanie loves playing Special Teams, like Bowman and Goldson do. It does annoy me seeing these 3 play STs, but I guess if they are great at it, better to have them do more out there.
I think walker is a perfect compliment to Vernon Davis. I think he is your ultimate utility guy. He can do all the little things that most players are no longer willing to do. However if we get Fleener I think that he will be the odd man out because they can Groom Byham to be the grunt tight end for blocking and short yardage situations while using VD and Fleener to give the passing game even more options sort of like the system New England has been using with great success. (yes I know we don't have Brady)
Originally posted by adrenaline:
He's incredibly inconsistent, which means, bottom line, he's a liability

This. People always refer to him as a "swiss army knife", that means you do a lot of s**t but aren't particularly great at any one of them. This team ran out of the 2 TE set more than 50% of the time and the guy went half the season without a single catch. If you're going to line up 2 TE's consistently, it'd be nice if both of them were actual threats that the defense has to account for, when Delanie's not bobbling passes in the endzone, he's getting shutdown by a single safety because he's 6 f**king feet tall. If you don't think a guy with substantially better size and hands than Walker is going to make this team more dangerous in the red-zone, you're out of your mind.


There's a reason why TE's like Fleener and Allen are expected to be drafted in the first 2 rounds and why an H-back like Evan Rodriguez is expected to go in Round 4 or 5. A true TE gives you much more EFFECTIVE versatility, teams have to account for that threat and if he's got tremendous size like Fleener does, the matchup becomes a tremendous problem, he's too big for any single defensive back and quicker than the vast majority of linebackers out there, additionally you also have a mismatch with Vernon Davis, as well as the potential of Crabtree and Moss/Manningham that you have to worry about.........pick your poison really.


Teams expect Delanie Walker to block, and that's fine and dandy but with an offense that plays the 2 TE formation as much as the 49ers do, with a team that struggled on 3rd down and in the red-zone as much as the 49ers did, they've got to have an actual threat at that 2nd TE position.



I've gone back through games from this past season and when Walker wasn't in to block, he was having trouble getting separation, getting shutdown by a safety or bobbling passes that should have simply been caught. There were a few times where he broke free and Alex missed him, but for the most part, the guy really doesn't create a mismatch nor does he demand special attention from a defense the way a big, towering guy like Fleener would.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Apr 14, 2012 at 9:36 PM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think the coaches like what Delanie can do and what he has to offer to the offense. Not sure why the hate in the Zone. He did a great job in the offense with a short off season. Quick learner it seems. He gives the offense the ability to blend the running game with the passing game to make defense guessing. He goes in motion, he may be crack blocking anyone of the defender upfront on a running play. And just when you think he's doing enough of that for them to figure it out, he's sprinting downfield cutting through the defense for a zinger pass from Smith. Or he can lineup out wide on goal line and short yardage situation to get that needed 2-3 yards. Had he been healthier in the NFCCG, he would have been another weapon the Giants had to be concern for. Wasn't there another opportunity to Delanie in that game that Smith missed also...

I actually think we will get a bigger dose of Delanie next year in the offense. Stop hate'n before it gets too embarassing.



You do realize he went like 8 games without a catch right???? When he's in the game, teams basically accept that he's in there to block period...the dual threat just isn't there.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think the coaches like what Delanie can do and what he has to offer to the offense. Not sure why the hate in the Zone. He did a great job in the offense with a short off season. Quick learner it seems. He gives the offense the ability to blend the running game with the passing game to make defense guessing. He goes in motion, he may be crack blocking anyone of the defender upfront on a running play. And just when you think he's doing enough of that for them to figure it out, he's sprinting downfield cutting through the defense for a zinger pass from Smith. Or he can lineup out wide on goal line and short yardage situation to get that needed 2-3 yards. Had he been healthier in the NFCCG, he would have been another weapon the Giants had to be concern for. Wasn't there another opportunity to Delanie in that game that Smith missed also...

I actually think we will get a bigger dose of Delanie next year in the offense. Stop hate'n before it gets too embarassing.



You do realize he went like 8 games without a catch right???? When he's in the game, teams basically accept that he's in there to block period...the dual threat just isn't there.
Teams game planned to take him out of the game because was a big part of our success early on. If you check the game grades by the writers he still received praise every week. We need extra blocking help to keep Alex alive
  • Wodwo
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Originally posted by RDB4216:
Originally posted by Wodwo:
One thing to keep in mind:

All three of those TEs can line up at WR.

Hell, Walker was a WR in college.

I'm on the, "Let's wait and see what happens next season if we do draft Fleener before we start this discussion." bandwagon.

You guys like to jump the gun.

Newsflash: There is a reason Walker "was" a WR in college, but is not in the pros.

Yeah... I get that. Do you know what the reason is? Are you 100% certain you know? Could it be that you're making an assumption?

Could the reason really be that he was drafted because somebody felt he could be a multidimensional threat? You do realize that he lines up at WR right? Just because he isn't listed as a WR and doesn't play WR exclusively does not mean that he can't.

Suggestion for you before future posts: Do a self-check in your head to see if you actually know what you're talking about before you type it.

BTW, no hard feelings, I'm just yankin' yer chain.
Originally posted by Squidp:
Teams game planned to take him out of the game because was a big part of our success early on. If you check the game grades by the writers he still received praise every week. We need extra blocking help to keep Alex alive

So you think that with Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, and Michael Crabtree on offense - it was Delanie Walker that teams gameplanned to shut down?
  • Wodwo
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Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You do realize he went like 8 games without a catch right???? When he's in the game, teams basically accept that he's in there to block period...the dual threat just isn't there.

You're wrong. Wrong wrongity wrongelson noway.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by RDB4216:
So you think that with Vernon Davis, Frank Gore, and Michael Crabtree on offense - it was Delanie Walker that teams gameplanned to shut down?

Yes?