Will Crabtree ever be this good?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by walker807:
When you watched him as a rookie and watching him last season do you really see any improvement? If anything I think he dropped off a bit his second year and then returned to rookie form last season. I would like to know what areas people are seeing improvement in? Not saying hes crap or anything like that but I for one don't think he is any better today than he was as a rookie.

Good question. I'd say blocking downfield. Catching he's actually regressed. Don't see much burst off the LOS or top-end speed. You could say he's improved in his versatility - think he's played a couple different positions.

I think you can also add tipping balls, especially over the middle, to that list. He seems to have passed through that phase. Of course, they don't seem to run him on those routes quite as much anymore...

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by walker807:
When you watched him as a rookie and watching him last season do you really see any improvement? If anything I think he dropped off a bit his second year and then returned to rookie form last season. I would like to know what areas people are seeing improvement in? Not saying hes crap or anything like that but I for one don't think he is any better today than he was as a rookie.

Good question. I'd say blocking downfield. Catching he's actually regressed. Don't see much burst off the LOS or top-end speed. You could say he's improved in his versatility - think he's played a couple different positions.

I think you can also add tipping balls, especially over the middle, to that list. He seems to have passed through that phase. Of course, they don't seem to run him on those routes quite as much anymore...

Disagree on your point of him not running the routes over the middle anymore....Crabtree is the guy who does all the dirty work for the WR. Blocking, running the drag routes over the middle, etc.

I still don't understand why we have not used him in the way he should be used. Look at this highlight reel of Crabtree in his last season at Tech.


Short passes, slants, screen passes, intermediate routes. Even the deep routes. He just looks faster in college.

We should have AT LEAST 5 total screen/slant plays to Crabtree a game. Talk about being under utilized.

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Disagree on your point of him not running the routes over the middle anymore....Crabtree is the guy who does all the dirty work for the WR. Blocking, running the drag routes over the middle, etc.

I still don't understand why we have not used him in the way he should be used. Look at this highlight reel of Crabtree in his last season at Tech.


Short passes, slants, screen passes, intermediate routes. Even the deep routes. He just looks faster in college.

We should have AT LEAST 5 total screen/slant plays to Crabtree a game. Talk about being under utilized.

thats cause in those highlights they arent pressing him

in nfl he is seeing press coverage and isnt physically talented enough to break it

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
thats cause in those highlights they arent pressing him

in nfl he is seeing press coverage and isnt physically talented enough to break it

you're probably right. But that doesn't mean that he isn't talented enough to wreak havoc with the football in his hands.

I have seen him and Alex on the same page, a lot. People complain about the lack of chemistry these two have, but I have seen them click for long periods of time. It started in his rookie year, when Crabtree would be Smith's go to guy for the intermediate routes between 10 and 15 yards.

2010 started off really bad for Crabtree with Smith; the tipped balls for INTs still remain fresh in a lot of fans' memories, and him and Smith could never ever really get on track because of Smith's injuries. Troy Smith and Crabtree developed good chemistry in the few games that Troy played.

After about week 5-6 in 2011, Smith began to trust Alex A LOT. This is after the Detroit game, where Smith had some absolutely terrible passes to Crabtree, and I would literally cringe every time he would throw it to Crabs because of the likelihood of it being high.

They really began to click after that point till the end of the regular season ( remember the Seattle game, divisional game..fighting for the 2nd seed, 41 yarder on 3rd and 18 with 4 minutes to go. CLUTCH. )

s**t went down the drain during the playoffs, but I am not going to give up on the guy just because of 2 bad games. I will also not forget how many times Smith threw it at his feet in the NFCCG.

Expecting bigger and better things from Smith. Crabtree, Moss, Manningham, VD and the rest of our offense in 2012.

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Disagree on your point of him not running the routes over the middle anymore....Crabtree is the guy who does all the dirty work for the WR. Blocking, running the drag routes over the middle, etc.

Yeah, you're right he still spends a lot of time in the middle, but they seem to have him running crossing routes now rather than those sharp square-ins/digs that Raye liked so much. That seemed to be the route that produced the tips.

No. I don't think so. First off his competition both in terms of ability and scheme far surpasses what he faced in college. Second, in order to be AS good as he was in college, he'd have to be near Rice-esque in the NFL. His career already is guaranteed to never sniff Rice's jock strap (Rice already had a couple 1,000 yard seasons and pro bowls at this point).

I think it's a somewhat closer call as to whether he can be a dominant #1. A late bloomer, perhaps (like a Llyod). I'd guess he has about a 20% of becoming a dominant #1, but he needs to live at the team facility. Game tape. Route running (with a coach). Catch passes all offseason from Alex. Generally, approach his job with a maniacle obsession. It's a big committment, and I don't think he'll make it.

Basically I've always felt he was going to definitely be a good possession receiver. I was never sold he could be much more though. He's not really that fast. Never was (college is different). The injury concerned me too. And it's been an issue. He could be more, but I never really was sold on him as a true #1 and that hasn't changed.

I don't think he looks faster on that video. He's just playing college level players and it shows.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Im sick of hearing how he needs more weapons around him. He has had a top 5 receiving TE and a top 5 RB on the offense since he was drafted. What more does a supposed #1 WR need to succeed? A good WR doesnt need another WR of equal or better talent opposite of him to show his skills.

Crabtree has improved each year, including last year after foot surgery. Due to his draft position many think he should be an elite WR and I am actually surprised and disappointed myself that he is not. But that does not mean he is worthless or incapable of becoming a good receiver.

There were good reasons for Crabtree's struggles last year but if you want to think it is all his fault and that he is a bad guy, so be it. I look forward to watching him this year to see if he can regain his form from college or if his game just doesn't translate when the DBs are faster, bigger and stronger. My greatest concern regarding Crabtree, stated above, is his disappearance during crunch time. That does not speak well of his competitive spirit.

As far as a WR not needing another good WR opposite, I would say that is only marginally true. The niners were able to limit many teams best threat because they did not have a secondary threat to worry about. VD is a threat, but not when he spends most of his time blocking...as he admitted--he did not get the offense until midyear. Morgan out, Edwards doing little, the whole offense being put on training wheels due to the condensed camp...yet Crabtree was still the top receiver.

Who beside Crabtree was gonna be the top WR? Swain? Of course he was the top WR. He was the only option.

Elite WR's dont care who is opposite them. They are gonna put up their numbers regardless...

Originally posted by Robert:
No. I don't think so. First off his competition both in terms of ability and scheme far surpasses what he faced in college. Second, in order to be AS good as he was in college, he'd have to be near Rice-esque in the NFL. His career already is guaranteed to never sniff Rice's jock strap (Rice already had a couple 1,000 yard seasons and pro bowls at this point).

I think it's a somewhat closer call as to whether he can be a dominant #1. A late bloomer, perhaps (like a Llyod). I'd guess he has about a 20% of becoming a dominant #1, but he needs to live at the team facility. Game tape. Route running (with a coach). Catch passes all offseason from Alex. Generally, approach his job with a maniacle obsession. It's a big committment, and I don't think he'll make it.

Bingo!! This has been and still is his problem, and it shows on the field.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Who beside Crabtree was gonna be the top WR? Swain? Of course he was the top WR. He was the only option.

Elite WR's dont care who is opposite them. They are gonna put up their numbers regardless...

He won't be going into the 2012 season I can guarantee you that. You are right about elite WR's, something he'll never be one.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Who beside Crabtree was gonna be the top WR? Swain? Of course he was the top WR. He was the only option.

Elite WR's dont care who is opposite them. They are gonna put up their numbers regardless...

My comment was "top receiver" not WR...so how about Vernon Davis, who had the advantage of being Smith's go to guy, has been for years, and was healthy all year? But Crabtree had more catches, yards, ypc, and longest. After all, Harbaugh likes to use TEs and Crabtree was coming back from injury the first few games, and had to compete with Morgan and Edwards.

Once again, I have no idea if Crabtree will have a boon or bust year next year, but I am looking forward to seeing how it all turns out without projecting my personal bias.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

He won't be going into the 2012 season I can guarantee you that. You are right about elite WR's, something he'll never be one.

U can readz da futurez?

If Crabtree can stay healthy, and that's a big if, he'll be a hell of a player and definitely a #1. He's got great hands and can get open enough. Smith didn't trust him enough last season to force it to him like he did with VD. Having a full camp and pre-season will make all the difference.

He better get better because there is competition for receiver this yr.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Who beside Crabtree was gonna be the top WR? Swain? Of course he was the top WR. He was the only option.

Elite WR's dont care who is opposite them. They are gonna put up their numbers regardless...

My comment was "top receiver" not WR...so how about Vernon Davis, who had the advantage of being Smith's go to guy, has been for years, and was healthy all year? But Crabtree had more catches, yards, ypc, and longest. After all, Harbaugh likes to use TEs and Crabtree was coming back from injury the first few games, and had to compete with Morgan and Edwards.

Once again, I have no idea if Crabtree will have a boon or bust year next year, but I am looking forward to seeing how it all turns out without projecting my personal bias.

The numbers speak for themselves, and they're firmly on your side. But I think you're over-selling it a bit. Remember, there was some awkwardness regarding Davis' integration into the offense last year. In fact, once the play book was cracked open in October and early November there were rumors coming out of the locker room that Davis was frustrated by the paucity of balls thrown his way. That's not the sort of complaint you'd expect from a stud TE in a supposedly TE-friendly system. At any rate, I think it's fair to say they both got off to slower starts than we would have liked. I never found a satisfactory answer for what the issue with Davis was, it just sorta blew over.

The data is clearly on your side, I'm simply suggesting that you shouldn't push the "TE friendly" mantra too hard. There were a lot of assumptions made about last year's team and the Coach, but the progression of the season put to rest a lot of those assumptions. Unfortunately, I didn't keep a record of passing attempts to TE's last season so I can't argue this point very aggressively. Nevertheless, I was left with a strong impression that the "TE friendly" assumption didn't bear fruit, either.