Will Crabtree ever be this good?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
null post

I placed a duplicate post.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Its no more assumption than the stuff you have stated in this thread. Atleast my assumptions are based on historical fact, and not blind optimism.

The difference is that you are making a negative judgement about a player with absolutist statements, while I realize he may be either good or bad next year depending on many variables that we have no knowledge of. If Moss and Manningham start over Crabtree and he is eventually cut? Won't bother me. But if he lights it up next year it seems you will be very surprised and saddened...seems like you have a personal stake in his being bad! We are both 9er fans and I hope we can agree that whatever happens, it should be for the good of the 9ers.

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Reasonable gentlemen can reasonably disagree.

Thanks for the bull session, it was fun.

Always enjoy your posts and respect your point of view.

Originally posted by father49er:
If Crabtree can stay healthy, and that's a big if, he'll be a hell of a player and definitely a #1. He's got great hands and can get open enough. Smith didn't trust him enough last season to force it to him like he did with VD. Having a full camp and pre-season will make all the difference.

- If "if" was a fifth we'd all be drunk. If a bullfrog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass all the time. Crabs has been nothing to this team but a big juicy potential gift wrapped in a bunch of "if's".
- It's never the QB's fault when the QB looses faith in a WR. There is no bigger indicator that a WR has major issues than when his own QB looses faith in his ability. Alex Smith cannot force anything out of Crabs that Crabs won't/can't force out of himself first. Alex Smith had nothing to do with Vernon Davis getting his head right and his sh_t together. Vernon Davis did that on his own, albeit with a reality check from one Mike Singletary. But this team is at the precipice of another long run of greatness, so JH & Co. don't have time to pamper players with reality checks. I doubt this coaching staff is gonna coddle Crabs.

Understand that Crabs is a failed regimes pick. So, for lack of a better term, this regime won't long suffer fools (just an expression, so don't freak out). And last season this team suffered a ton via the WR position. So at this point it's really simple: Either he's on board, or he's not. Either he's gonna do what he can for this team to be successful or he's not. Either he's gonna work hard or he's not. It's up to Crabs and nobody else. So talent and potential be damned. It's Crabs head that needs forced, and only Crabs himself can do that.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by walker807:
When you watched him as a rookie and watching him last season do you really see any improvement? If anything I think he dropped off a bit his second year and then returned to rookie form last season. I would like to know what areas people are seeing improvement in? Not saying hes crap or anything like that but I for one don't think he is any better today than he was as a rookie.

Good question. I'd say blocking downfield. Catching he's actually regressed. Don't see much burst off the LOS or top-end speed. You could say he's improved in his versatility - think he's played a couple different positions.

I think you can also add tipping balls, especially over the middle, to that list. He seems to have passed through that phase. Of course, they don't seem to run him on those routes quite as much anymore...

Disagree on your point of him not running the routes over the middle anymore....Crabtree is the guy who does all the dirty work for the WR. Blocking, running the drag routes over the middle, etc.

I still don't understand why we have not used him in the way he should be used. Look at this highlight reel of Crabtree in his last season at Tech.


Short passes, slants, screen passes, intermediate routes. Even the deep routes. He just looks faster in college.

We should have AT LEAST 5 total screen/slant plays to Crabtree a game. Talk about being under utilized.

Good point but like I alluded to earlier, Crabtree is playing a constant 4 WR set with quick underneath passes to him and the 3 other WR's clearing out room for RAC. I think this is EXACTLY why the Niners got speed and deep threats in Moss, Manningham and even Ginn. I think we will run Crabtree underneath all day long and take shots deep.

Originally posted by Leathaface:
He'd be a 1000 yard 8 TD WR on a passing offense with a better QB. That's not a shot at AS...it's just the truth.

It's funny people forget last year Crabtree had a fantastic season and came on really strong at the end. He had a bad game vs the Saints, no doubt. But against the Giants, that was more AS's inability to get the ball to the WRs.

How is a hypothetical the truth? And of course it's a shot at Smith. Get real.
Also, it's our offense that wasn't passing oriented last year. Overall, Smith's completion percentage was decent. Next year we should be better across the board. Let's hope for the best.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good point but like I alluded to earlier, Crabtree is playing a constant 4 WR set with quick underneath passes to him and the 3 other WR's clearing out room for RAC. I think this is EXACTLY why the Niners got speed and deep threats in Moss, Manningham and even Ginn. I think we will run Crabtree underneath all day long and take shots deep.

Totally agree that speed should open up the middle. Looking at situational stats--Crabtree had 7 receptions in the middle and 40 on the far sides. That does not indicate a guy doing all the dirty work, but there were so few receptions in the middle it seemed the 9ers were ignoring that area. Will be fun to watch Moss and Manningham able to get to all those overthrows that Swain and Crabtree missed.

Just a thought--Williams may benefit more from the two new receivers than Crabtree. The two might be deadly in the role of possession receivers. Sometimes one new peice improves every player. Same with the OLine...I hope!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good point but like I alluded to earlier, Crabtree is playing a constant 4 WR set with quick underneath passes to him and the 3 other WR's clearing out room for RAC. I think this is EXACTLY why the Niners got speed and deep threats in Moss, Manningham and even Ginn. I think we will run Crabtree underneath all day long and take shots deep.

Totally agree that speed should open up the middle. Looking at situational stats--Crabtree had 7 receptions in the middle and 40 on the far sides. That does not indicate a guy doing all the dirty work, but there were so few receptions in the middle it seemed the 9ers were ignoring that area. Will be fun to watch Moss and Manningham able to get to all those overthrows that Swain and Crabtree missed.

Just a thought--Williams may benefit more from the two new receivers than Crabtree. The two might be deadly in the role of possession receivers. Sometimes one new peice improves every player. Same with the OLine...I hope!

This! And I'm glad you brought this up. There is an article on the Home page re: Kyle Williams has some serious competition this year to make a roster spot but the article also talks about his great chemistry with Alex and he's a very smart and effective slot WR. He even met with Baalke and has a great attitude and work ethic. So again, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we used Crabtree as trade bait or he ends up not being one of the top 3 WR's, even behind Williams/Ginn. We don't use many 3+ WR sets anyhow and if we pick up Fleener, you'll see 2 TE sets all day long which means the #3 and #4 WR will be on the bench. The real battle this offseason will be for #1 and #2 WR positions.

Originally posted by NCommand:
This! And I'm glad you brought this up. There is an article on the Home page re: Kyle Williams has some serious competition this year to make a roster spot but the article also talks about his great chemistry with Alex and he's a very smart and effective slot WR. He even met with Baalke and has a great attitude and work ethic. So again, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we used Crabtree as trade bait or he ends up not being one of the top 3 WR's, even behind Williams/Ginn. We don't use many 3+ WR sets anyhow and if we pick up Fleener, you'll see 2 TE sets all day long which means the #3 and #4 WR will be on the bench. The real battle this offseason will be for #1 and #2 WR positions.

I totally agree with drafting Fleener even if we have to trade up to get him.The assumption that he will be availiable at the 30th pick was reasonable until his pro day which blew that out of the water so if you have to,trade up,the kid is special.In the case of Crabtree and no one is saying it but he needs to re-dedicate his body to football.Every year since he was drafted I've been noticing him get heavier and heavier which is taking away all the up's he had in all those youtube clips.I think he is listed at 204 which needs to come down 15 pounds which also is something Walker needs to consider.Walker is well muscled so he could lose the weight and be even more effective in the up and coming multiple TE sets that we're going to throw at teams next year (Davis,Walker,Fleener...........wow,GO NINERS).

I asked the question:

How is Hakeem Nicks a top 5 or 10 WR, and Crabtree is not?

"Would you have drafted Nicks over Crabtree?"

"Based on college play, you would not have."

Very frustrating. And no need to bring AS into this mix. His 4 comeback drives this year, and that Saints game are way more than anything Crabs has shown us his entire NFL career.

I counted 3, maybe 4 100 yard games his career.

I like to give people chances, but divadom makes me very impatient. Whatever you think of AS, he does have the right attitude.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
I asked the question:

How is Hakeem Nicks a top 5 or 10 WR, and Crabtree is not?

"Would you have drafted Nicks over Crabtree?"

"Based on college play, you would not have."

Very frustrating. And no need to bring AS into this mix. His 4 comeback drives this year, and that Saints game are way more than anything Crabs has shown us his entire NFL career.

I counted 3, maybe 4 100 yard games his career.

I like to give people chances, but divadom makes me very impatient. Whatever you think of AS, he does have the right attitude.

I agree,last year it was time so its now or never.But in hindsight,what do the Niners do if they draft a receiver in the third round(like we did with T.O)and he's outplaying Crabtree in camp?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Its no more assumption than the stuff you have stated in this thread. Atleast my assumptions are based on historical fact, and not blind optimism.

The difference is that you are making a negative judgement about a player with absolutist statements, while I realize he may be either good or bad next year depending on many variables that we have no knowledge of. If Moss and Manningham start over Crabtree and he is eventually cut? Won't bother me. But if he lights it up next year it seems you will be very surprised and saddened...seems like you have a personal stake in his being bad! We are both 9er fans and I hope we can agree that whatever happens, it should be for the good of the 9ers.

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
Reasonable gentlemen can reasonably disagree.

Thanks for the bull session, it was fun.

Always enjoy your posts and respect your point of view.

Cool story....

So now anyone critical of Crabtree wants him to fail. Gotcha. True fans turn a blind eye to mediocrity.

This fanbase is so starved for a #1 WR that they forgot what one looks like.

In college hakeem was always injured in NFL crabs has been injured (every off-season at that)

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Cool story....

So now anyone critical of Crabtree wants him to fail. Gotcha. True fans turn a blind eye to mediocrity.

This fanbase is so starved for a #1 WR that they forgot what one looks like.

You seem to be saying in your earlier posts that Crabtree is a bust, complete failure. If I am misreading you then you have my apologies.

I'm seeing some quality minutes on the field but have not seen a dominant player that I expected. So, if he can be a good WR with Manningham, Moss and Williams helping round out the position that is fine for now. I tend to be slow to give up on players unless a better player replaces them...which would be great. Perhaps Moss will resurrect his career and be the guy this year.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Cool story....

So now anyone critical of Crabtree wants him to fail. Gotcha. True fans turn a blind eye to mediocrity.

This fanbase is so starved for a #1 WR that they forgot what one looks like.

You seem to be saying in your earlier posts that Crabtree is a bust, complete failure. If I am misreading you then you have my apologies.

I'm seeing some quality minutes on the field but have not seen a dominant player that I expected. So, if he can be a good WR with Manningham, Moss and Williams helping round out the position that is fine for now. I tend to be slow to give up on players unless a better player replaces them...which would be great. Perhaps Moss will resurrect his career and be the guy this year.

I have said several times in other WR/Crabtree threads that Crabtree becoming a good WR would be the best thing for this team, and that i would gladly eat crow if i am wrong. Honstly i have seen nothing from Crabtree that tells me he is anything more than a mediocre #2 WR. I dont think he will be a starter next season, and i also dont beleive he will even be on the roster much longer. Of course its all personal opinion.

Crabtree has a breakout year this year.

The problem is it won't be earth shattering because that football is going to be tossed around more than last year to the full compliment of receivers/backs.