Will Crabtree ever be this good?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Who beside Crabtree was gonna be the top WR? Swain? Of course he was the top WR. He was the only option.

Elite WR's dont care who is opposite them. They are gonna put up their numbers regardless...

My comment was "top receiver" not WR...so how about Vernon Davis, who had the advantage of being Smith's go to guy, has been for years, and was healthy all year? But Crabtree had more catches, yards, ypc, and longest. After all, Harbaugh likes to use TEs and Crabtree was coming back from injury the first few games, and had to compete with Morgan and Edwards.

Once again, I have no idea if Crabtree will have a boon or bust year next year, but I am looking forward to seeing how it all turns out without projecting my personal bias.

You expect a TE to have more receptions than the only WR on the roster? really? Even a WR like Crabtree who is supposed to be some great possesion WR??......VD had 4 TD's in the postseason. Not to mention Crabtree Barely beat VD in those categories. VD had 67 Receptions....Crabs 72. VD averaged 11.8 to Crabtrees 12.1. As mentioned both started out slow. Crabtree had a couple good games against weak NFC west opponents at the end....then did nothing in the playoffs. VD had 4 TD's in the post season, and averaged 29.2. Not to mention his Long in the postseason destroyed Crabtrees regular season long.....

crabtree is what crabtree is. a tough over the middle quality reciever in the hines ward mold. generally really good hands and is improving with his blocking skills. If he has an injury free foot and a good training camp we can expect more production for sure . but he aint never gonna b a burner. that would be manningham and moss duty

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
The numbers speak for themselves, and they're firmly on your side. But I think you're over-selling it a bit. Remember, there was some awkwardness regarding Davis' integration into the offense last year. In fact, once the play book was cracked open in October and early November there were rumors coming out of the locker room that Davis was frustrated by the paucity of balls thrown his way. That's not the sort of complaint you'd expect from a stud TE in a supposedly TE-friendly system. At any rate, I think it's fair to say they both got off to slower starts than we would have liked. I never found a satisfactory answer for what the issue with Davis was, it just sorta blew over.

The data is clearly on your side, I'm simply suggesting that you shouldn't push the "TE friendly" mantra too hard. There were a lot of assumptions made about last year's team and the Coach, but the progression of the season put to rest a lot of those assumptions. Unfortunately, I didn't keep a record of passing attempts to TE's last season so I can't argue this point very aggressively. Nevertheless, I was left with a strong impression that the "TE friendly" assumption didn't bear fruit, either.

Agree, however both VD and Crabtree had to learn the offense and the latter has had no rapport with Smith in past years. So I give Crabtree the same benefit of the doubt that I give the line and others--they played well above my expectations for the amount of practice time in the new offense. We saw the TE friendly offense in the playoffs, with VD being the only viable threat.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
You expect a TE to have more receptions than the only WR on the roster? really? Even a WR like Crabtree who is supposed to be some great possesion WR??......VD had 4 TD's in the postseason. Not to mention Crabtree Barely beat VD in those categories. VD had 67 Receptions....Crabs 72. VD averaged 11.8 to Crabtrees 12.1. As mentioned both started out slow. Crabtree had a couple good games against weak NFC west opponents at the end....then did nothing in the playoffs. VD had 4 TD's in the post season, and averaged 29.2. Not to mention his Long in the postseason destroyed Crabtrees regular season long.....

Crabtree was not the only WR on the roster...he was just the best. VD has a long standing rapport with Smith while Crabtree has not. So my point is that Crabtree has played above my expectations given the new offense and learning on the fly. We do not know how serious Crabtree's foot injury is or how hard he works...those are unknown at this point but I have never heard that Crabtree is in less than tip top shape. Never have seen an accusation of lack of work ethic except by people with no personal knowledge...conjecture.

I have been disappointed in Crabtree because he hasn't lived up to my expectations but I believe he does have talent and that it may be developed by Harbaugh and crew. If they can't get the most out of him I'll be surprised.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
The numbers speak for themselves, and they're firmly on your side. But I think you're over-selling it a bit. Remember, there was some awkwardness regarding Davis' integration into the offense last year. In fact, once the play book was cracked open in October and early November there were rumors coming out of the locker room that Davis was frustrated by the paucity of balls thrown his way. That's not the sort of complaint you'd expect from a stud TE in a supposedly TE-friendly system. At any rate, I think it's fair to say they both got off to slower starts than we would have liked. I never found a satisfactory answer for what the issue with Davis was, it just sorta blew over.

The data is clearly on your side, I'm simply suggesting that you shouldn't push the "TE friendly" mantra too hard. There were a lot of assumptions made about last year's team and the Coach, but the progression of the season put to rest a lot of those assumptions. Unfortunately, I didn't keep a record of passing attempts to TE's last season so I can't argue this point very aggressively. Nevertheless, I was left with a strong impression that the "TE friendly" assumption didn't bear fruit, either.

Agree, however both VD and Crabtree had to learn the offense and the latter has had no rapport with Smith in past years. So I give Crabtree the same benefit of the doubt that I give the line and others--they played well above my expectations for the amount of practice time in the new offense. We saw the TE friendly offense in the playoffs, with VD being the only viable threat.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
You expect a TE to have more receptions than the only WR on the roster? really? Even a WR like Crabtree who is supposed to be some great possesion WR??......VD had 4 TD's in the postseason. Not to mention Crabtree Barely beat VD in those categories. VD had 67 Receptions....Crabs 72. VD averaged 11.8 to Crabtrees 12.1. As mentioned both started out slow. Crabtree had a couple good games against weak NFC west opponents at the end....then did nothing in the playoffs. VD had 4 TD's in the post season, and averaged 29.2. Not to mention his Long in the postseason destroyed Crabtrees regular season long.....

Crabtree was not the only WR on the roster...he was just the best. VD has a long standing rapport with Smith while Crabtree has not. So my point is that Crabtree has played above my expectations given the new offense and learning on the fly. We do not know how serious Crabtree's foot injury is or how hard he works...those are unknown at this point but I have never heard that Crabtree is in less than tip top shape. Never have seen an accusation of lack of work ethic except by people with no personal knowledge...conjecture.

I have been disappointed in Crabtree because he hasn't lived up to my expectations but I believe he does have talent and that it may be developed by Harbaugh and crew. If they can't get the most out of him I'll be surprised.

LOL. If Crabtree had half the dedication and work ethic his supporters say he does he would be working with the GOAT in the offseason when he offered his services. He would be in SF right now catching passes and running routes with Smith throwing him balls. Crabtree simply doesnt have the passion for the position it takes to succeed even as a #2 in this league. If he had half the season work ethic as Morgan or hell even Zeigler, he could be a good WR. He simply doesnt care enough to want to be the best.

Originally posted by matthewabbit:
crabtree is what crabtree is. a tough over the middle quality reciever in the hines ward mold. generally really good hands and is improving with his blocking skills. If he has an injury free foot and a good training camp we can expect more production for sure . but he aint never gonna b a burner. that would be manningham and moss duty

Really Crabtree is in the mold of one of the hardest working, most passionate, overacheiving, WR's? He is the antithesis of Ward. I understand he has stepped up his blocking game, But that's a part of being a WR in todays NFL. If he didnt block he would be worthless.

Ward put together a 14 year career by overacheiving, working hard, doing anything and everything asked of him, and trying to be the best he could possibly be. He has over 12000 yards receiving and 85 TD's. I'll be surprised if Crabtrees career even lasts half as long as Wards.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
LOL. If Crabtree had half the dedication and work ethic his supporters say he does he would be working with the GOAT in the offseason when he offered his services. He would be in SF right now catching passes and running routes with Smith throwing him balls. Crabtree simply doesnt have the passion for the position it takes to succeed even as a #2 in this league. If he had half the season work ethic as Morgan or hell even Zeigler, he could be a good WR. He simply doesnt care enough to want to be the best.

Assumptions much? He can only prove he is a hard worker if he works out with Rice? Hmm...that means there are receivers all over the league shirking their duties. Fire them all! LOL!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
LOL. If Crabtree had half the dedication and work ethic his supporters say he does he would be working with the GOAT in the offseason when he offered his services. He would be in SF right now catching passes and running routes with Smith throwing him balls. Crabtree simply doesnt have the passion for the position it takes to succeed even as a #2 in this league. If he had half the season work ethic as Morgan or hell even Zeigler, he could be a good WR. He simply doesnt care enough to want to be the best.

Assumptions much? He can only prove he is a hard worker if he works out with Rice? Hmm...that means there are receivers all over the league shirking their duties. Fire them all! LOL!

The GOAT isaint offering workouts to every WR in the league. Missing training camps, not working on his personal off the field and on the field relationship with Alex. Not staying in SF in the offseason. These are all on Crabtree and noone else is to blame but him.

s**t if he wanted to succeed and be the best on the roster next season he would have been looking for that Kid with Smith and Catching Passes before and after.

He has some stiff competition this year, and probally more to be added in the draft, we will see if his backers are correct.

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The GOAT isaint offering workouts to every WR in the league. Missing training camps, not working on his personal off the field and on the field relationship with Alex. Not staying in SF in the offseason. These are all on Crabtree and noone else is to blame but him.

s**t if he wanted to succeed and be the best on the roster next season he would have been looking for that Kid with Smith and Catching Passes before and after.

He has some stiff competition this year, and probally more to be added in the draft, we will see if his backers are correct.

And you sit at the 9ers headquarters all day every day to check Crabtree in and out? I doubt you know how hard Crabtree is working or if he has worked out with Smith. Come on now, just admit that most of what you are saying is assumption.

...or don't...

I wanna see what this coaching staff is going to do with all the WR's

Originally posted by father49er:
If Crabtree can stay healthy, and that's a big if, he'll be a hell of a player and definitely a #1. He's got great hands and can get open enough. Smith didn't trust him enough last season to force it to him like he did with VD. Having a full camp and pre-season will make all the difference.

you lie more than the maloofs.

If Crabtree had half the QB Rice had, he would have 1200 in 2011.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
The GOAT isaint offering workouts to every WR in the league. Missing training camps, not working on his personal off the field and on the field relationship with Alex. Not staying in SF in the offseason. These are all on Crabtree and noone else is to blame but him.

s**t if he wanted to succeed and be the best on the roster next season he would have been looking for that Kid with Smith and Catching Passes before and after.

He has some stiff competition this year, and probally more to be added in the draft, we will see if his backers are correct.

And you sit at the 9ers headquarters all day every day to check Crabtree in and out? I doubt you know how hard Crabtree is working or if he has worked out with Smith. Come on now, just admit that most of what you are saying is assumption.

...or don't...

Its no more assumption than the stuff you have stated in this thread. Atleast my assumptions are based on historical fact, and not blind optimism.

Who's Will Crabtree?

make or break season, #fact

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Agree, however both VD and Crabtree had to learn the offense and the latter has had no rapport with Smith in past years. So I give Crabtree the same benefit of the doubt that I give the line and others--they played well above my expectations for the amount of practice time in the new offense. We saw the TE friendly offense in the playoffs, with VD being the only viable threat.

Reasonable gentlemen can reasonably disagree.

Thanks for the bull session, it was fun.