The Total Inability of 49er Fans to Understand Receiver Performance | Page 20

nickbradley · 2012-03-21T10:52:53-07:00

So, here's the narrative we hear on webzone incessantly: - Crabtree will never be a #1 - Manningham is overrated - Moss is Washed up - Williams needs to be cut (for some reason) - Delanie Walker is Awesome! No reason to draft Coby Fleener Well, I'm here to tell you that all of those are untrue with the exception of the Moss one - because I have no idea how much he has left in the tank. I will rely on Footballoutsiders.com to assess the performance of our receivers. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr Crabtree - Crabtree improved dramatically from 2010 to 2011, after an even bigger improvement from 2009 to 2010. Extrapolating the trend, he should be a top 15 WR in 2012. On par with a Dez Bryant or something like that. method: I did a curve fit for 2009/10/11 stats and extrapolated the trend. Now, we can all throw stones at this extrapolation, but it is clear that Crabtree has the stuff to be a #1 and has improved a ton every year. Manningham - Is everyone aware that Manningham was the 16th Best WR in 2010? And that he caught 65% of passes thrown his direction that year? And that he only caught 51% of targeted passes in 2011? He was hurt all year, and Cruz got the better routes to run. Manningham may end up being the steal of Free Agency. Williams - On a per-play basis, Williams performed as well as Myles Austin and Torrey Smith. That's borderline #1 performance, for a little guy out of the slot that's 23 years old! Moss - total wild card in 2012 Walker - Everyone thinks Walker is dominant, but it is a *Myth*. DVOA of -7% in 2011, 0.3% in 2010, and a horrid -20% in 2009. Totally replaceable, and not on par with other teams that run 2 TEs. You replace him with Coby Fleener (bump walker to 3rd TE), and productivity shoots up! ** With the exception of Moss, Manningham is the "old man" of the receiver corps at the ripe old age of 25! Thoughts?

Mar 25, 2012 at 5:24 AM

#286

1swift
Veteran
Posts: 486

Originally posted by flow:

Originally posted by 1swift:

Originally posted by flow:

Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:

You did not refute a single point I made, troll, you just repeated what I said in a sarcastic tone. You lost this argument so badly it's pathetic.

Have fun staring at these pictures of Alex hitting Vernon between two defenders in the playoffs while I ride Jerry Rice's jock (which I'm proud to do, by the way):

not a single one?

Nope.

Just four examples:

DerekJeterForGG exaggerates: my exact words were I can't wait for Crabtree to be "traded/released." His immediate response was "oh Crabtree needs to be given the death penalty, huh?"

His facts are wrong: he states that Anquan Boldin only does well with great QBs, but Boldin still put up huge numbers with McCown and Leinart! He stated a similar thing about Andre Johnson, but Johnson still did well (1142 yards in 2004, 1147 yards in 2006) with David Carr! He tried the same thing with Santana Moss, but Moss still did well (1044 yards in 2008) with Jason Campbell!

He lacks common sense: he tries to argue that it was okay for Crabtree to disrespect Smith at Camp Alex because player-run camps are useless/dangerous. If that's the case, then why did Crabtree show up to the camp in the first place? He was not obligated to do so. Don't come if it's so "useless."

He compared the 49ers' initial contract offer to Crabtree to minimum wage. It was only an offer of approximately five years and $20 million, with a reported $16 million guaranteed... WITHOUT EVER PLAYING A DOWN IN THE NFL. But yeah, it's the same as minimum wage.

I could go on and on for each of DerekJeterForGG's asinine "arguments," but it would be a fruitless exercise. You can't fix stupid. I made my points clear in my earlier posts and I'm not wasting any more time with a guy who defends Deion Sanders over Jerry Rice.

He pointed out pretty clearly why some might think Jerry Rice is headcase too at the very least.

Perhaps a purely sarcastic argument isnt the most effective but you sit here and call him stupid, you call a player a b***h, p***y, and garbage because you dont like that he held out. No Rookie has played an NFL game before their first contract yet somehow every year back then each pick had to make more money than the guy picked in the same spot the year before. It was completely ridiculous but crabtree's argument was no more ridiculous than the system as it existed at that time.

Facts show he's a player who has improved every year, If you actually look at stats with respect to our offense which has a pretty low number of pass attempts, low amount of pass yards you see Crabtree's production relative to our offense is not far off many #1 WR's production relative to their offenses. You have a lot of emotion in your argument because you dont like things he's said or how he behaved but somehow none of the people in the locker room with the guy have anything negative to say about if he's in shape or not, about his work ethic...In fact you hear the opposite and teammates are sticking up for the guy. Fans hate a holdout but dont blink when a guy is cut because the team believes he's not worth his cap hit. I, for one, can never hold it against a guy to hold out because of the nature of the NFL, the average career length, and how guaranteed money works. Rice and Mangini are paid to speak their opinion which is fine but they're not in the locker room with the guy. No matter how great a player or how, I dont know....experienced a coach is they can, and have been flat out wrong

This regime has been shown to be pretty cold, calculating no-nonsense type. If Crabtree wasn't doing his behind the scenes work up to par it'd probably be pretty obvious by someone talking about it, or the fact he wouldn't see the field and may even end up on the trading block or cut (i.e. B. Edwards)...

Mar 25, 2012 at 7:35 AM

#287

Rubberneck36
HOF
Posts: 141,822

Hey , either discuss it or I will lock and start warning. No need to get personal or start insulting. Be civil, it's a discussion.

Mar 25, 2012 at 11:18 AM

#288

flow
Veteran
Posts: 2,395

Originally posted by English:
Flow and DerekJeter

OK regardless of who is to blame the tone of this exchange has reached too high a temperature. The team will just have to make their decisions themselves.

This exchange is now finished. Please do not try to continue your argument in other threads.

Thank you.

Yes, sir!

Mar 25, 2012 at 11:38 AM

#289

flow
Veteran
Posts: 2,395

Originally posted by 1swift:
He pointed out pretty clearly why some might think Jerry Rice is headcase too at the very least.

Perhaps a purely sarcastic argument isnt the most effective but you sit here and call him stupid, you call a player a b***h, p***y, and garbage because you dont like that he held out. No Rookie has played an NFL game before their first contract yet somehow every year back then each pick had to make more money than the guy picked in the same spot the year before. It was completely ridiculous but crabtree's argument was no more ridiculous than the system as it existed at that time.

Facts show he's a player who has improved every year, If you actually look at stats with respect to our offense which has a pretty low number of pass attempts, low amount of pass yards you see Crabtree's production relative to our offense is not far off many #1 WR's production relative to their offenses. You have a lot of emotion in your argument because you dont like things he's said or how he behaved but somehow none of the people in the locker room with the guy have anything negative to say about if he's in shape or not, about his work ethic...In fact you hear the opposite and teammates are sticking up for the guy. Fans hate a holdout but dont blink when a guy is cut because the team believes he's not worth his cap hit. I, for one, can never hold it against a guy to hold out because of the nature of the NFL, the average career length, and how guaranteed money works. Rice and Mangini are paid to speak their opinion which is fine but they're not in the locker room with the guy. No matter how great a player or how, I dont know....experienced a coach is they can, and have been flat out wrong

This regime has been shown to be pretty cold, calculating no-nonsense type. If Crabtree wasn't doing his behind the scenes work up to par it'd probably be pretty obvious by someone talking about it, or the fact he wouldn't see the field and may even end up on the trading block or cut (i.e. B. Edwards)...

I understand what you're saying, 1swift. I'm sure everyone has a different opinion on Crabtree.

Mine is this: I actually do think Crabtree's extremely talented, but his attitude overshadows his ability. We've seen this many times with other players. Ryan Leaf and Lawrence Phillips were actually very talented, but their off-field issues were so severe that it affected their careers. I'm not saying Crabtree is as bad as those guys, but in my opinion he has displayed a pattern of childish behavior which won't cut it in the NFL. Even Vernon Davis got into a scuffle with Crabtree over his practice habits.

Side note: when Crabtree was drafted 10th overall in 2009, it wasn't that he wanted more money than the 10th slot in 2008; he wanted more money than the 7th slot in 2009. That's an absurd argument. He has a right to do that, but he has to accept the consequences; he should first look to himself for his subpar performance.

As a 49ers fan I obviously want Crabtree to do well, I just don't think he will and would rather cut our losses now. That's also why I am happy we acquired Moss and Manningham. (I actually preferred Meachem and Royal--DAMN CHARGERS

--but I am still happy with these guys.)

I completely agree with you on our front office's cold, calculating nature. Here's hoping we draft a good receiver.

Mar 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM

#290

buck
Veteran
Posts: 13,137

Originally posted by English:
Flow and DerekJeter

OK regardless of who is to blame the tone of this exchange has reached too high a temperature. The team will just have to make their decisions themselves.

This exchange is now finished. Please do not try to continue your argument in other threads.

Thank you.

Good call Mr. English

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:20 PM

#291

backfieldpenetration
Member
Posts: 8

I must say, I'm very impressed with the lack of bias on these forums. It's perfectly acceptable for posters to call MC a "p*ssy", a "douche", a "sack of garbage". You know why it's perfectly acceptable? Because we all know that if any poster said the same things about Alex Smith in the Alex Smith thread.....It would be perfectly acceptable too....Am I right? Of course I am. Not ONE person on this forum has a problem with anybody calling our QB names. Great job Mods. Way to stay unbiased.

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:25 PM

#292

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:28 PM

#293

backfieldpenetration
Member
Posts: 8

I agree LoneWolf....it's rather troubling that posters are allowed to call MC a "p*ssy" a "douche" and other unpleasant names. These same people can say the same things about alex smith and get punished. There is CLEARLY no bias here on the WZ. There is CLEARLY no fairytales getting made up in an attempt to build on the current 49er fan narrative that MC is worthless, renegade scum, and that poor Alex has no help. Clearly none at all.

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:37 PM

#294

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:39 PM

#295

backfieldpenetration
Member
Posts: 8

LoneWolf, I guess we are in agreement. It's fine to call MC these names but not #11. It makes perfect sense to me.

[ Edited by backfieldpenetration on Mar 25, 2012 at 3:40 PM ]

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:40 PM

#296

fropwns
The Last Fronin
Posts: 27,971

Originally posted by backfieldpenetration:
I agree LoneWolf....it's rather troubling that posters are allowed to call MC a "p*ssy" a "douche" and other unpleasant names. These same people can say the same things about alex smith and get punished. There is CLEARLY no bias here on the WZ. There is CLEARLY no fairytales getting made up in an attempt to build on the current 49er fan narrative that MC is worthless, renegade scum, and that poor Alex has no help. Clearly none at all.

I usually take my ban with cream and sugar. Oh excuse me, where was I? Ladies and Gentlemen, the PBM: RayshawnJackson. A big hand folks!

HE GONE!

Mar 25, 2012 at 3:45 PM

#297

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

I will actually respond this time, being that with all your useless comments its pretty much a given you will be banned in the near future. No we are not in agreement. I don't think insults of any player on the 49ers is acceptable. We root for the 49ers and want better for them. Some people get so emotionally involved in the game that the way they let our frustrations out with players. I'm guessing your a former member and this is your way of outbursting against the mods but it is a childish attempt of having your voice heard. On internet forums there a differences of opinion, but there is also a fine line when a member takes it too far with there release of frustrations for a player. Anyways enjoy the rest of your stay in the webzone.