Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:
Originally posted by flow:
Nope.
Just four examples:
- DerekJeterForGG exaggerates: my exact words were I can't wait for Crabtree to be "traded/released." His immediate response was "oh Crabtree needs to be given the death penalty, huh?"
Nope, your exact words were, "he's a hyper-sensitive, overrated, pompous, spoiled, sack of gar-BAGE."
- His facts are wrong: he states that Anquan Boldin only does well with great QBs, but Boldin still put up huge numbers with McCown and Leinart! He stated a similar thing about Andre Johnson, but Johnson still did well (1142 yards in 2004, 1147 yards in 2006) with David Carr! He tried the same thing with Santana Moss, but Moss still did well (1044 yards in 2008) with Jason Campbell!
And yet Boldin hasn't even managed to reach 1,000 yards the past two years in Baltimore with Flacco. Andre Johnson merely managed 688 yards in 13 games with David Carr in 2005. Santana Moss, in 2006, totaled just 790 yards in 14 games. In 2007, he totaled just 808 yards in 14 games. In 2009, just 902 yards. Last year, just 584 in 14 games.
If Crabtree had played several full seasons and didn't manage to scrape together the "way under their talent level, but still respectable" numbers, you could attempt this comparison (still wouldn't be fair, as Troy Smith is worse than the quarterbacks the aforementioned receivers played with). But he hasn't. You used a 5 game sample with Troy Smith to attempt to prove your point.
Marvin Harrison's first 3 seasons:
836 yards, 8 touchdowns
866 yards, 6 touchdowns
776 yards, 7 touchdowns (12 games)
Michael Crabtree's first 3 seasons:
625 yards, 2 touchdowns (11 games)
741 yards, 6 touchdowns
874 yards, 4 touchdowns
- He lacks common sense: he tries to argue that it was okay for Crabtree to disrespect Smith at Camp Alex because player-run camps are useless/dangerous. If that's the case, then why did Crabtree show up to the camp in the first place? He was not obligated to do so. Don't come if it's so "useless."
Maybe Crabtree showed up to support his teammates, but he didn't participate because of his foot problems. Oh crap...that almost sounds like a positive thing.
- He compared the 49ers' initial contract offer to Crabtree to minimum wage. It was only an offer of approximately five years and $20 million, with a reported $16 million guaranteed... WITHOUT EVER PLAYING A DOWN IN THE NFL. But yeah, it's the same as minimum wage.
The specific monetary figures have nothing to do with the point I'm making. You were arguing under the premise that a player shouldn't have the right to hold out because "he hasn't even played a down in the NFL." Well, if that's the case, then the player has no right to make any demands whatsoever, right? If the team wants him to play for insultingly little money, he should have no objections, because he hasn't done anything, right?
I'm sure if he held out, he and his agent had a very good reason.
I could go on and on for each of DerekJeterForGG's asinine "arguments," but it would be a fruitless exercise. You can't fix stupid. I made my points clear in my earlier posts and I'm not wasting any more time with a guy who defends Deion Sanders over Jerry Rice.
I wonder if the mods warned this poster about insults. I'm guessing the answer is, "no."
So now you're whining to the mods? It's your own fault you got slaughtered in this argument, don't ask them for help.
You brought up Anquan Boldin, Andre Johnson, and Santana Moss as examples of WRs who only do well with great QBs. I showed stats that completely disproved your argument. I dare you to prove to me that any of the following is false:
Originally posted by flow:
Boldin still put up huge numbers with McCown and Leinart! ... Johnson still did well (1142 yards in 2004, 1147 yards in 2006) with David Carr! ... Moss still did well (1044 yards in 2008) with Jason Campbell!
^ If you don't want those stats brought up, don't bring up their names in the first place.
Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:
Maybe Crabtree showed up to support his teammates, but he didn't participate because of his foot problems. Oh crap...that almost sounds like a positive thing.
Ugh. Again, how does showing up, not participating, and acting like you don't know who the QB is supporting your teammates? You and I have very different ideas of support. I suppose when I dismantle everything you post on this message board, I'm supporting you, huh?
Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:
The specific monetary figures have nothing to do with the point I'm making.
Actually it does, since "minimum wage" was the hyperbole you tried to use in your pathetic argument. You literally compared the 49ers' initial contract offer to "minimum wage." In fact, if you bothered to do any research at all, you would realize that the 49ers offer was incredibly fair and appropriate for the slot at which Crabdouche was drafted.
Crabdouche's argument was that he
should have been drafted higher, so he
should have been paid more. That makes sense, right? I mean, the 1998 Minnesota Vikings
should have went to the Super Bowl, right? Heck, let's say they would have beaten the Broncos, too, right? Let's fit them for Super Bowl rings! Field trip to Tiffany's everyone!
Originally posted by DerekJeterForGG:
You were arguing under the premise that a player shouldn't have the right to hold out because "he hasn't even played a down in the NFL." Well, if that's the case, then the player has no right to make any demands whatsoever, right? If the team wants him to play for insultingly little money, he should have no objections, because he hasn't done anything, right?
There was nothing "insulting" about the 49ers' initial offer to Crabtree. The facts are:
- The old rookie payment system was massively inflated to begin with; so much so that both the league and the union agreed that it needed to be scaled down. That was actually the only major issue the two sides immediately agreed upon.
- Michael Crabtree's argument was based on where he thought he should have been drafted. Again, like I mentioned above, that's an irrational and nonsensical argument... the kind you routinely make.
- Crabtree didn't participate in the combine or any exhibition game EVER because of a "foot issue." This pathetic excuse has been going on for YEARS. That adds further fuel to his reputation of being a DIVA. Other players have been through much worse and continue to work. But Crabdouchediva doesn't.
- Vernon Davis even had to call this m*thaf*cka out, because he's such an unprofessional little b*tch. Vernon had to be separated from Crabtree, that's how much he pissed him--and many members of the team--off. But you don't even care about what Jerry Rice thinks, so you definitely don't care about what Vernon thinks. He's only, like, a really good player, dude.
Crabtree was seen laughing at the Raiders' selection of Heyward-Bey on draft day, which is really a douchy thing to do when you had yet to do squat in the NFL yourself. But that's why I call him Crabdouche. And that's why you defend him incessantly.
You still haven't shown me where I said I wanted Crabtree to die. Show me. Show me a quote. C'mon. "He's a hyper-sensitive, overrated, pompous, spoiled, sack of gar-BAGE" does not mention death anywhere in it.
In short, you haven't disproved anything I said, you bring up "facts" that I easily use against you, and you whine to the mods. You're trolling. Check yoself.
[ Edited by flow on Mar 25, 2012 at 2:39 AM ]