Originally posted by midrdan:Well said, sir!
This.
The bottom line is people want the 49ers to add talent in free agency and sign their own players and there are tons of threads and posts about how this signing or that effects the salary cap. The 49ers make an offer to Smith that NO TEAM IN THE NFL MATCHED and Smith doesn't sign. So the 49ers should offer him more than his fair market value as a "thank you" for last year? Did Smith give back the guaranteed money he made on his rookie deal that far exceeded his production?
I don't understand how somebody could accuse the FO of not having class because they took a look at other options. When they interviewed Eric Wright, that showed no class to Carlos Rogers? Smith could have ended this by signing before FA started. Thought he was worth more, found out he isn't, and signed. Class has nothing to do with it.
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Baalke and Harbaugh proved they are great coach and GM
Mar 21, 2012 at 12:30 AM
- classyfan49
- Veteran
- Posts: 147
Mar 21, 2012 at 12:34 AM
- classyfan49
- Veteran
- Posts: 147
Smith got fair market value. That Flynn or Fitzpatrick are paid more reflects that they are being overpaid by their respective organizations. Good for the Niners FO that they stuck to their guns, just as they have with EVERY free agent.
Mar 21, 2012 at 12:35 AM
- classyfan49
- Veteran
- Posts: 147
no position is anointed, right?
Mar 21, 2012 at 4:14 AM
- BayArea
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,664
Being classy is overrated anyway. lol
I would rather win 10+ and a superbowl than be classy any day.
As long as the teams doesn't lose because of it then its a good move.
I would rather win 10+ and a superbowl than be classy any day.
As long as the teams doesn't lose because of it then its a good move.
Mar 21, 2012 at 4:36 AM
- cNiner
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,440
Originally posted by MadDog49er:They proved that they have no class. This was handled horribly
Expline ? They put a contract on table , Alex did not take it , they looked @the market what's wrong with that ?!!!!
Mar 21, 2012 at 7:42 AM
- banntirr
- Veteran
- Posts: 171
After reading the gazillion posts regarding the Manning / Smith situation, it seems that there are 3 reasons why many fans are disgruntled with how the FO handled this situation:
1. The offer to Smith was insulting in money and years
2. They pursued Manning in secret and delayed Smith's entry in FA, essentially squashing his marketability and value
3. Harbaugh's 2011 sentiments ("elite", "clutch") and his close relationship (Smith caddying for him and accepting his COY award) run counter to the offer and treatment he received during this process.
1. Heck, we all speculated how much Smith should/would get on his new contract. The consensus was $8-$10 M per year. It certainly seems that everyone also felt the length should be in the 3-4 year time frame. Shockingly, our FO (who I think does a pretty good job of assigning value to their players) offered what everyone should have expected. I believe it was Lombardi who said on NFL Network that around the league that our offer was considered fair. Does it run counter to what Harbaugh said about Smith being elite? Yeah, but we all knew that when Harbaugh was saying these things it was to boost Alex's confidence.
Back to the contract - it was given to him before FA - at least the parameters. Why wasn't it signed? Alex (perhaps because of his agent) thought he should be offered more. It is the only explanation. Hit FA, drum up his market value and revisit the contract. That is gamble on Smith's part and he lost. While we can quibble over the semantics of perfect markets, the fair market value is determined essentially by what a reasonable buyer is willing to pay. If Smith were in demand, he would have commanded a higher salary. He wasn't, thus the offer is fair. It is skewed, certainly. I definitely prefer Smith over Sanchez, Kolb or Fitzpatrick, but the rest of the NFL doesn't appear to have the same belief.
2. Just because the media wasn't aware of us pursuing Manning doesn't mean Smith was clueless. According to Manning, he even visited our facility. I know Manning was dealing directly with the clubs, but Condon is a damn good agent and he must've known about our interest. Which means, since he works for Alex, Alex should have known as well. If there is any blame to be assigned, Alex should direct it towards his agent (whom he was reportedly considering firing). We don't know if Alex was made aware whether by us or his agent or not at all. Even if he was in the dark about our interest, the onus and blame falls on his agent, not us. I prefer our FO to be worried about the future of the players currently under contract.
By the way, keeping our interest out of the media is the exact opposite of classless. Keeping is secret is what classy, professional organizations do.
3. Harbaugh said some great things about Alex, and they obviously have a good relationship (in spite of this recent hoopla). However, and I can't stress this enough, Baalke and Marathe do the contracts. Certainly Harbaugh and Baalke work together, but Baalke manages the roster, assigns values to players, determines which FA to pursue. So any indictment against Harbaugh for his actions prior to this situation are unfair and irrelevant. Harbaugh also said - after Morgan's injury - that he would be a priority in FA - he signed elsewhere, because another team was willing to pay him more. I'll bet Morgan's replacemnet - Manningham - will make less than Morgan. Costanzo was a Seely guy, and I am sure Seely wanted him back, we all did. Baalke went a different direction with Cartwright - essentially replacing both Norris and Costanzo. That is a pretty savvy move.
Finally, to counter the sentiment that we treat our players poorly or unfairly, remember, before FA began both Barrows and Maiocco reported that all the significant pending FA wanted to come back (the only exception I believe is R Smith who wanted to go to a club where he had a chance to start).
1. The offer to Smith was insulting in money and years
2. They pursued Manning in secret and delayed Smith's entry in FA, essentially squashing his marketability and value
3. Harbaugh's 2011 sentiments ("elite", "clutch") and his close relationship (Smith caddying for him and accepting his COY award) run counter to the offer and treatment he received during this process.
1. Heck, we all speculated how much Smith should/would get on his new contract. The consensus was $8-$10 M per year. It certainly seems that everyone also felt the length should be in the 3-4 year time frame. Shockingly, our FO (who I think does a pretty good job of assigning value to their players) offered what everyone should have expected. I believe it was Lombardi who said on NFL Network that around the league that our offer was considered fair. Does it run counter to what Harbaugh said about Smith being elite? Yeah, but we all knew that when Harbaugh was saying these things it was to boost Alex's confidence.
Back to the contract - it was given to him before FA - at least the parameters. Why wasn't it signed? Alex (perhaps because of his agent) thought he should be offered more. It is the only explanation. Hit FA, drum up his market value and revisit the contract. That is gamble on Smith's part and he lost. While we can quibble over the semantics of perfect markets, the fair market value is determined essentially by what a reasonable buyer is willing to pay. If Smith were in demand, he would have commanded a higher salary. He wasn't, thus the offer is fair. It is skewed, certainly. I definitely prefer Smith over Sanchez, Kolb or Fitzpatrick, but the rest of the NFL doesn't appear to have the same belief.
2. Just because the media wasn't aware of us pursuing Manning doesn't mean Smith was clueless. According to Manning, he even visited our facility. I know Manning was dealing directly with the clubs, but Condon is a damn good agent and he must've known about our interest. Which means, since he works for Alex, Alex should have known as well. If there is any blame to be assigned, Alex should direct it towards his agent (whom he was reportedly considering firing). We don't know if Alex was made aware whether by us or his agent or not at all. Even if he was in the dark about our interest, the onus and blame falls on his agent, not us. I prefer our FO to be worried about the future of the players currently under contract.
By the way, keeping our interest out of the media is the exact opposite of classless. Keeping is secret is what classy, professional organizations do.
3. Harbaugh said some great things about Alex, and they obviously have a good relationship (in spite of this recent hoopla). However, and I can't stress this enough, Baalke and Marathe do the contracts. Certainly Harbaugh and Baalke work together, but Baalke manages the roster, assigns values to players, determines which FA to pursue. So any indictment against Harbaugh for his actions prior to this situation are unfair and irrelevant. Harbaugh also said - after Morgan's injury - that he would be a priority in FA - he signed elsewhere, because another team was willing to pay him more. I'll bet Morgan's replacemnet - Manningham - will make less than Morgan. Costanzo was a Seely guy, and I am sure Seely wanted him back, we all did. Baalke went a different direction with Cartwright - essentially replacing both Norris and Costanzo. That is a pretty savvy move.
Finally, to counter the sentiment that we treat our players poorly or unfairly, remember, before FA began both Barrows and Maiocco reported that all the significant pending FA wanted to come back (the only exception I believe is R Smith who wanted to go to a club where he had a chance to start).
Mar 21, 2012 at 7:46 AM
- NeeJ49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 9,580
The NFL is a business ...you cant blame Baalke and Harbaugh for trying to lure a 4 time NFL MVP to come play for us
It didnt pan out ,so alex needs to put it behind him and focus on the new weapons he has in Moss and Manningham, and the new weapons we will grab in the draft
It didnt pan out ,so alex needs to put it behind him and focus on the new weapons he has in Moss and Manningham, and the new weapons we will grab in the draft
Mar 21, 2012 at 7:52 AM
- KknighthawkK_9er
- Veteran
- Posts: 523
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
The NFL is a business ...you cant blame Baalke and Harbaugh for trying to lure a 4 time NFL MVP to come play for us
It didnt pan out ,so alex needs to put it behind him and focus on the new weapons he has in Moss and Manningham, and the new weapons we will grab in the draft
This
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:13 AM
- English
- Moderator
- Posts: 40,210
I can't believe I am having to make this point yet again.
Do not attack other posters. People have a right to a different opinion. Argue the case for your opinion. Remember that they are fellow 49ers fans. If they get irritating, stop posting in that thread until it settles down.
I think this point has been made quite often enough. Don't complain if you get warned or banned.
Do not attack other posters. People have a right to a different opinion. Argue the case for your opinion. Remember that they are fellow 49ers fans. If they get irritating, stop posting in that thread until it settles down.
I think this point has been made quite often enough. Don't complain if you get warned or banned.
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:19 AM
- Rollininers
- Veteran
- Posts: 540
Originally posted by guillotine31:This is not a true statement at all. This has been their MO since their arrival. They have done this with every single free agent they've had. They offer a contract before they get to free agency. If the player wants it, he takes it (Ahmad Brooks). If he doesn't want it, he tests the waters and the 49ers get moving on to a Plan B. It's happened at all positions on the roster. If Alex was bothered by this, he shouldn't have been surprised (Goldson 2011, Clements 2011, Rogers this year, Ginn this year, Morgan this year, Costanzo this year). They have their core and they will not overspend or coddle. It works for every other marquee franchise.
Purely speculation, but I would not be surprised if it comes out that Alex was made fully aware that they were going to talk to other FA QBs. Even Condon knows that a team is not going to sit around and wait for a slightly above average player. The FO did their jobs, doing everything in their power to try and improve the team.
I agree, the best example was Goldson last year. It went to the point that he tweeted he's not going to be back but no kne gave him a better offer so he went back. It wasnt a big deal because it didnt include a 4 time mvp in the news
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:20 AM
- natrone06
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,143
I imagine there are probably some Tim Tebow fans on the broncos forum that sound similar to Maddog right now. Class has nothing to do with either scenario. Fans get emotionally attached to certain players when front offices don't have the luxury.
I dont think the 49er heads could have handled it better. I also think Alex handled it properly as well.
I dont think the 49er heads could have handled it better. I also think Alex handled it properly as well.
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:24 AM
- Rollininers
- Veteran
- Posts: 540
Originally posted by banntirr:After reading the gazillion posts regarding the Manning / Smith situation, it seems that there are 3 reasons why many fans are disgruntled with how the FO handled this situation:
1. The offer to Smith was insulting in money and years
2. They pursued Manning in secret and delayed Smith's entry in FA, essentially squashing his marketability and value
3. Harbaugh's 2011 sentiments ("elite", "clutch") and his close relationship (Smith caddying for him and accepting his COY award) run counter to the offer and treatment he received during this process.
1. Heck, we all speculated how much Smith should/would get on his new contract. The consensus was $8-$10 M per year. It certainly seems that everyone also felt the length should be in the 3-4 year time frame. Shockingly, our FO (who I think does a pretty good job of assigning value to their players) offered what everyone should have expected. I believe it was Lombardi who said on NFL Network that around the league that our offer was considered fair. Does it run counter to what Harbaugh said about Smith being elite? Yeah, but we all knew that when Harbaugh was saying these things it was to boost Alex's confidence.
Back to the contract - it was given to him before FA - at least the parameters. Why wasn't it signed? Alex (perhaps because of his agent) thought he should be offered more. It is the only explanation. Hit FA, drum up his market value and revisit the contract. That is gamble on Smith's part and he lost. While we can quibble over the semantics of perfect markets, the fair market value is determined essentially by what a reasonable buyer is willing to pay. If Smith were in demand, he would have commanded a higher salary. He wasn't, thus the offer is fair. It is skewed, certainly. I definitely prefer Smith over Sanchez, Kolb or Fitzpatrick, but the rest of the NFL doesn't appear to have the same belief.
2. Just because the media wasn't aware of us pursuing Manning doesn't mean Smith was clueless. According to Manning, he even visited our facility. I know Manning was dealing directly with the clubs, but Condon is a damn good agent and he must've known about our interest. Which means, since he works for Alex, Alex should have known as well. If there is any blame to be assigned, Alex should direct it towards his agent (whom he was reportedly considering firing). We don't know if Alex was made aware whether by us or his agent or not at all. Even if he was in the dark about our interest, the onus and blame falls on his agent, not us. I prefer our FO to be worried about the future of the players currently under contract.
By the way, keeping our interest out of the media is the exact opposite of classless. Keeping is secret is what classy, professional organizations do.
3. Harbaugh said some great things about Alex, and they obviously have a good relationship (in spite of this recent hoopla). However, and I can't stress this enough, Baalke and Marathe do the contracts. Certainly Harbaugh and Baalke work together, but Baalke manages the roster, assigns values to players, determines which FA to pursue. So any indictment against Harbaugh for his actions prior to this situation are unfair and irrelevant. Harbaugh also said - after Morgan's injury - that he would be a priority in FA - he signed elsewhere, because another team was willing to pay him more. I'll bet Morgan's replacemnet - Manningham - will make less than Morgan. Costanzo was a Seely guy, and I am sure Seely wanted him back, we all did. Baalke went a different direction with Cartwright - essentially replacing both Norris and Costanzo. That is a pretty savvy move.
Finally, to counter the sentiment that we treat our players poorly or unfairly, remember, before FA began both Barrows and Maiocco reported that all the significant pending FA wanted to come back (the only exception I believe is R Smith who wanted to go to a club where he had a chance to start).
Great points
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:29 AM
- Eli_23
- Veteran
- Posts: 5,564
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:Originally posted by MadDog49er:They proved that they have no class. This was handled horribly
As always....
f**k off MadDog
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:30 AM
- HessianDud
- Veteran
- Posts: 22,995
i can't believe people are willing to get warnings for someone who just drops trolling comments and disappears. come on guys, don't feed the ego, save your warnings for important things like nipples.
Mar 21, 2012 at 8:55 AM
- banntirr
- Veteran
- Posts: 171
Originally posted by NinerGM:
You won't hear a word about being disgruntled as the wins roll in. Totally fleeting. Steeler and Patriot fans are used to dealings of this type and their fans aren't complaining because their teams are perennial contenders.
I whole heartedly agree. I just remember this board last off season...the general sentiment was that we failed in the offseason, the FO was in over their heads and our season was doomed. I thought that would've given the FO the benefit of the doubt this year, but it seems the more things change, the more they stay the same.