What keeps the offense from begin elite | Page 21

merm49 · 2012-02-27T22:46:01-08:00

When healthy last year, we had one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league. Morgan, Edwards, Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Walker, Gore, Hunter, Miller. That's a deep group of very solid offensive skill players. Obviously, we had major issues with health and the WR corps was reduced to Crabtree and scrubs by the playoffs. Nonetheless, I and a lot of others felt we had the talent to be an elite offense, as we should be next year adding a couple WRs in FA and the draft. Instead, we were average at best. There were some great moments (Philly, Detroit, Saints), but for the most part we plodded along, couldn't score in the RZ, and couldn't convert 3rd downs. Is that due to Alex or play calling? I'm more inclined to fault play calling, and here's why. (Disclaimer: the unique offseason necessitated a conservative offensive approach the first few games; I'm talking about once we got to mid season) Alex Smith demonstrated that he can be a competent, game managing QB who makes the crucial play when he has to have. Look at Philly, DET, NO for proof, along with big-time throws against PIT, at SEA, etc. He did enough to get us to the SB if not for KW's first bout of ineptitude and idiocy. He has his faults, but he made a gigantic leap under Harbaugh in year one and only figures to get better with a full offseason and first-ever year in the same system (I still find it unbelievable that we can't evaluate Alex in year 2 of an O and he's entering his 8th year). If Harbuagh can get Smith to play the entire game with the same urgency as he displayed in his comebacks, he's going to be very dangerous. Given Smith's demonstrated crunch-time ability, I believe more of the fault lies with play calling. Now, Harbuagh's "every possession must end with a kick (KO, FG, or Punt)" philosophy is a great strategy and won us a lot of games. It also cost us the Dallas game, and forced us settle for tons of FGs that should have been TDs. How many times did we reach the RZ only to run 3 consecutive times up the gut from the start of the season up to the AZ loss. For example, I attended the game vs. the Skins where we reached the RZ 3 times but ran on each play. Later in the season, we seemed to become too pass-heavy, eschewing the run when it was working well for us. This was never more glaring than the NFCC, where Gore and Hunter were gashing the Giants, yet Roman/Harbaugh opted to put the game on Alex's shoulders, forcing him to throw in the face of a strong pass rush to a double-covered VD, an off-his-game Crabtree, and scrubs. Over the course of the entire season, we rarely ran screen plays, despite facing a lot of pressure and having Hunter, Davis, and Walker as proven threats on these routes. We called questionable trick plays in crucial games, such as the failed half-back pass vs NO and the KW fumbled reverse vs NYG. We just never seemed to get in to a good rhythm as an O, pounding the rock early in the season and then forgetting about it late; too often we got away from going with what was working in games. I know I'll probably take some heat for criticizing play calling, as every fan imagines him/herself as a better OC than the guys actually doing the job. I still have the utmost faith in Harbuagh and his staff, and the glimpses of greatness (for example, the 2 late TDs vs NO) give me hope that they will adjust the game plan and make better use of our considerable offensive talent going forward.

Mar 2, 2012 at 7:50 PM

#301

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by ninertico:
Know you don't hate to say it. You can't wait to say it. You guys can't wait for him to fail so that you guys can final say "we were right." Otherwise, all this is moot. You guys place this POV of strict importance and rarely swerve from it. I've seen this type of behavior before and nothing comes from it because ultimately, only you guys would get your jollies off of someone failing.

That's the POV I just don't understand, nor want to.

Hope you guys fail. That way, we know that Alex proved you wrong.

Mar 2, 2012 at 7:55 PM

#302

Ronnie49Lott
Veteran
Posts: 8,506

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by ninertico:
Know you don't hate to say it. You can't wait to say it. You guys can't wait for him to fail so that you guys can final say "we were right." Otherwise, all this is moot. You guys place this POV of strict importance and rarely swerve from it. I've seen this type of behavior before and nothing comes from it because ultimately, only you guys would get your jollies off of someone failing.

That's the POV I just don't understand, nor want to.

Hope you guys fail. That way, we know that Alex proved you wrong.

Us and them, isn't that an old Pink Floyd song?

[ Edited by Ronnie49Lott on Mar 2, 2012 at 7:57 PM ]

Mar 2, 2012 at 7:58 PM

#303

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Us and them, isn't that an old Pink Floyd song?

also a Shinedown album

Mar 2, 2012 at 9:30 PM

#304

gavindirishmen
Veteran
Posts: 670

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by ninertico:
Know you don't hate to say it. You can't wait to say it. You guys can't wait for him to fail so that you guys can final say "we were right." Otherwise, all this is moot. You guys place this POV of strict importance and rarely swerve from it. I've seen this type of behavior before and nothing comes from it because ultimately, only you guys would get your jollies off of someone failing.

That's the POV I just don't understand, nor want to.

Hope you guys fail. That way, we know that Alex proved you wrong.

We don't want to see our QB fail. That doesn't make any sense. That said, Alex isn't going to wow you with 4,000 yards next season and a bunch of TD's.
Even this year our offense was near the bottom of the league in 3rd conversion % and red zone td. And you can look at every season he's been here and we're at or near the bottom of the league in important offensive categories. The QB has a lot to do with that. I don't care how coaches he's had. The cream rises to the top.
And this guy aint the cream. I'd be happy to eat some crow if I'm wrong. So again we don't want to see him fail. But he fails so often why would we expect anything else?

Mar 2, 2012 at 9:36 PM

#305

gavindirishmen
Veteran
Posts: 670

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by ninertico:
Know you don't hate to say it. You can't wait to say it. You guys can't wait for him to fail so that you guys can final say "we were right." Otherwise, all this is moot. You guys place this POV of strict importance and rarely swerve from it. I've seen this type of behavior before and nothing comes from it because ultimately, only you guys would get your jollies off of someone failing.

That's the POV I just don't understand, nor want to.

Hope you guys fail. That way, we know that Alex proved you wrong.

Mar 2, 2012 at 9:41 PM

#306

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
We don't want to see our QB fail. That doesn't make any sense. That said, Alex isn't going to wow you with 4,000 yards next season and a bunch of TD's.
Even this year our offense was near the bottom of the league in 3rd conversion % and red zone td. And you can look at every season he's been here and we're at or near the bottom of the league in important offensive categories. The QB has a lot to do with that. I don't care how coaches he's had. The cream rises to the top.
And this guy aint the cream. I'd be happy to eat some crow if I'm wrong. So again we don't want to see him fail. But he fails so often why would we expect anything else?

lol cream rises ti the top?

how many qbs become elite first year in new offense?

i did thid before
time it took qbs to be considered elite:

eli manning: 7 season
tom brady : around 5-6 seasons
aaron rodeers: 2-3 season of playing 4 season of sitting on bench before that
drew brees: around 5 years

out of those qbs tey all had same offensive system for throughout their career and an actual coach

alex had different system every year and first year with a decent coach he arguably had a top 10 year

[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Mar 2, 2012 at 9:43 PM ]

Mar 2, 2012 at 9:53 PM

#307

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,207

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Everybody wants a tall big body WR, but do you guys really see Alex just throwing it up and playing jump ball? I dont.

sorry just a little confused here

why would you throw jump balls to guys who are 6 1 (tallest WR on our team is that height)

i have seen a few to VD though

I just dont see him as that type of QB. He's more cautious than any other QB in the league. And I dont think he's thrown "jump balls" to Davis. There was that one underthrown ball that Davis had to jump over Rolls shoulder pads for, but thats all I can remember.

He threw jump balls to Antonio Bryant 6 years ago and it resulted in 11 INTs because Bryant was not willing to go up and make a play. I recall screaming at the TV or at the field for home games when the guy just made no effort at all despite the fact he usually was taller than the DB who went up to make a play.

That kind of stuff influences a player, particularly a QB who is judged responsible for picks.

Mar 2, 2012 at 9:53 PM

#308

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
lol cream rises ti the top?

how many qbs become elite first year in new offense?

i did thid before
time it took qbs to be considered elite:

eli manning: 7 season
tom brady : around 5-6 seasons
aaron rodeers: 2-3 season of playing 4 season of sitting on bench before that
drew brees: around 5 years

out of those qbs tey all had same offensive system for throughout their career and an actual coach

alex had different system every year and first year with a decent coach he arguably had a top 10 year

Mar 2, 2012 at 9:54 PM

#309

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,207

Originally posted by LoneWolf:

Originally posted by ninertico:
Know you don't hate to say it. You can't wait to say it. You guys can't wait for him to fail so that you guys can final say "we were right." Otherwise, all this is moot. You guys place this POV of strict importance and rarely swerve from it. I've seen this type of behavior before and nothing comes from it because ultimately, only you guys would get your jollies off of someone failing.

That's the POV I just don't understand, nor want to.

Hope you guys fail. That way, we know that Alex proved you wrong.

Mar 2, 2012 at 10:02 PM

#310

SF4EVA
Veteran
Posts: 6,098

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

Originally posted by gavindirishmen:
We don't want to see our QB fail. That doesn't make any sense. That said, Alex isn't going to wow you with 4,000 yards next season and a bunch of TD's.
Even this year our offense was near the bottom of the league in 3rd conversion % and red zone td. And you can look at every season he's been here and we're at or near the bottom of the league in important offensive categories. The QB has a lot to do with that. I don't care how coaches he's had. The cream rises to the top.
And this guy aint the cream. I'd be happy to eat some crow if I'm wrong. So again we don't want to see him fail. But he fails so often why would we expect anything else?

lol cream rises ti the top?

how many qbs become elite first year in new offense?

i did thid before
time it took qbs to be considered elite:

eli manning: 7 season
tom brady : around 5-6 seasons
aaron rodeers: 2-3 season of playing 4 season of sitting on bench before that
drew brees: around 5 years

out of those qbs tey all had same offensive system for throughout their career and an actual coach

alex had different system every year and first year with a decent coach he arguably had a top 10 year

Look man the guy said he wasn't rooting for Alex to fail. But to tell the truth a good Athlete,Player is able to over come that type of adversity atleast 50% of the time. Alex Played very good this season. He still has to be better come next yr. but that is the same for every player in the league. He actually played well enough to where fans no longer need to make excuses for him.

Mar 2, 2012 at 10:11 PM

#311

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by SF4EVA:
Look man the guy said he wasn't rooting for Alex to fail. But to tell the truth a good Athlete,Player is able to over come that type of adversity atleast 50% of the time. Alex Played very good this season. He still has to be better come next yr. but that is the same for every player in the league. He actually played well enough to where fans no longer need to make excuses for him.

But not well enough that he shouldn't be judged with the same blind minded b.s.?

Mar 2, 2012 at 10:14 PM

#312

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

Originally posted by SF4EVA:
Look man the guy said he wasn't rooting for Alex to fail. But to tell the truth a good Athlete,Player is able to over come that type of adversity atleast 50% of the time. Alex Played very good this season. He still has to be better come next yr. but that is the same for every player in the league. He actually played well enough to where fans no longer need to make excuses for him.

this is NFL if athlethicsim was just enough jamarcuss russel would be an all pro

coaching and system matters this year of alex proved it with limited offseason

as did matt flynn who took over and had the best game in packers history

the point i was making is that it usually takes a while for qbs to be considered elite (not saying alex is close to there) and none of them had multiple OC like alex did

Mar 2, 2012 at 10:32 PM

#313

eastie
Veteran
Posts: 2,503

What has kept this offense from being elite, has been a revolving door of offensive coordinators, inept coaching, sub par player performance, crap for game plans, and mis management.

we seem to have righted all of those wrongs this past season, with improved player performance, better coaching, better management, retention of the coaching staff, and now, a full off season to implement parts of the playbook that weren't intergrated into the gameplans last season due to the shortened off season. All this personal crap is just that, personal crap. We were just a couple of plays away from the Superbowl. Quit your friggin whinning, and get on board.

Mar 2, 2012 at 10:57 PM

#314

KEGster
Member
Posts: 512

Compared to the rest of the league:
QB: Good
RB: Very Good
OL: Very Good
TE: Great
WR: Below Average

- Obviously improve the receivers & add depth with another pass catching TE
- Add depth at Oline/RB
- Groom replacement for Smith & Gore

Oline > RB. In terms of importance

Mar 2, 2012 at 11:03 PM

#315

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by KEGster:
Compared to the rest of the league:
QB: Good
RB: Very Good
OL: Very Good
TE: Great
WR: Below Average

- Obviously improve the receivers & add depth with another pass catching TE
- Add depth at Oline/RB
- Groom replacement for Smith & Gore

Oline > RB. In terms of importance

To me the Oline falls in the Good
RB is in between good and very good