Do you believe the 49er will sign a true #1 WR AND a high draft pick as #2 WR?

Originally posted by Furlow:
Call me crazy, but I still think Crabs has the potential to be a #1. He'll never be a Randy Moss type deep threat, but his skill set is elite. He needs work in the offense the same as everyone else. The WCO is very difficult for every position (ie Vernon Davis) so it is understandable that all of the skill positions took a hit in production.

That said, I hope we draft a WR or two in the top three rounds. I'd also like to see a RG or center taken, and a safety or corner (depending on whether we sign Rogers or Goldson). If we do all of that, and re-sign Josh Morgan, we'll have a lot to work with on offense.

Yup that's crazy..... No his skill set is not elite.....

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
dtg, one of the things noticeably missing is the simple art of learning how to fake, and then actually using it. One thing craps did not do this yr was fake, juke, make crisp cuts. All those things are tiny but in the big picture, they have to do with getting open or not. I think it interesting that Coach let only 1 asst walk and he was....our WRs coach. Things like fakes, crisp routes are to a WR, as learning how to pick up blitzes is to OLs, learning how to read blitzes is to Qbs, and learning how to block with proper footwork and upper body moves are for OLs. If craps can learn the essentials of running perfect routes, his catches and yrds go up...way up. He apparently has the talent, but it seemingly comes and goes. Is there a mental part of this? I don't know but it is peculiar that he can make circus catches, snag balls out of the air way over his head, and then come up dry near end of season and then in the postseason. His most obvious deficiency is not getting open. He should either read the Jerry Rice book on "how to" or get some actual hands on from Jerry. I have wondered how it was that he never asked for help in the area that keeps him from getting open...fakes and crisp routes, sometimes comebackers if Qb in trouble.

who knows, maybe Coach H is going to hire a guy who CAN teach those things to not just craps but other WRs as well. The one thing on the field i hate to see is a WR just running a deep route, hoping he can run faster than the DB or CB. That doesn't work. As anxious as i am to see who we FA and draft at WR, I am equally interested in our WR coach. Also, i will be amazed if Coach H doesn't oversee this aspect of WRs, at least initially. He knows how to coach perfect, crisp routes with fakes.

Lastly, as we both have noted, some of this is on Roman for not calling quick slants and outs. Instead of calling those plays routinely, he calls them infrequently. His one bugaboo has been NOT calling slants and outs when the D is standing there and just overtly giving them to us...and Roman responds with a deep fly route or a 24 dive. That aspect of his playcalling HAS to improve this yr.

Great post and I agree with all of it. Crabtree has to work on his route running, and the detailed nuances are critical. It's not just breaking on the right foot and being crisp, it's knowing when and how to change his footwork just enough to give him an edge. The problem is that requires him to know what EVERYONE on the field is doing. That takes a lot of time. Once the offense is working together, once they all know what the other is doing, it will be much easier to make adjustments during the play. What we basically saw all season was a series of practice sessions. It was simply unprecedented for a team with a first year coach and brand new system to have that much success. I am very excited to see what Crabtree and every other skill position player is capable of next year and the years that follow.

One thing is for sure, Crabtree is a BEAST when the ball is at it's high point. He is excellent at plucking the ball and being able to time his jump perfectly. Those are not coachable skills. Once he's able to blend that talent with knowledge of the system and chemistry with Alex (or whoever the QB is), he will be a force.

Agree with both of you and wonder if the foot problem is more significant than Crabtree is letting on. He did do an excellent job on a few routes mid-year and certainly in college, but he hasn't done so much or consistently. If VD had a hard time picking up the offense, guess it is understandable that MC had a more difficult time.

I don't know how much he works in the off-season, or with who, so don't want to criticize him unduly. He is said to be in good shape every year so he does some work during down times.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
dtg, one of the things noticeably missing is the simple art of learning how to fake, and then actually using it. One thing craps did not do this yr was fake, juke, make crisp cuts. All those things are tiny but in the big picture, they have to do with getting open or not. I think it interesting that Coach let only 1 asst walk and he was....our WRs coach. Things like fakes, crisp routes are to a WR, as learning how to pick up blitzes is to OLs, learning how to read blitzes is to Qbs, and learning how to block with proper footwork and upper body moves are for OLs. If craps can learn the essentials of running perfect routes, his catches and yrds go up...way up. He apparently has the talent, but it seemingly comes and goes. Is there a mental part of this? I don't know but it is peculiar that he can make circus catches, snag balls out of the air way over his head, and then come up dry near end of season and then in the postseason. His most obvious deficiency is not getting open. He should either read the Jerry Rice book on "how to" or get some actual hands on from Jerry. I have wondered how it was that he never asked for help in the area that keeps him from getting open...fakes and crisp routes, sometimes comebackers if Qb in trouble.

who knows, maybe Coach H is going to hire a guy who CAN teach those things to not just craps but other WRs as well. The one thing on the field i hate to see is a WR just running a deep route, hoping he can run faster than the DB or CB. That doesn't work. As anxious as i am to see who we FA and draft at WR, I am equally interested in our WR coach. Also, i will be amazed if Coach H doesn't oversee this aspect of WRs, at least initially. He knows how to coach perfect, crisp routes with fakes.

Lastly, as we both have noted, some of this is on Roman for not calling quick slants and outs. Instead of calling those plays routinely, he calls them infrequently. His one bugaboo has been NOT calling slants and outs when the D is standing there and just overtly giving them to us...and Roman responds with a deep fly route or a 24 dive. That aspect of his playcalling HAS to improve this yr.

Great post and I agree with all of it. Crabtree has to work on his route running, and the detailed nuances are critical. It's not just breaking on the right foot and being crisp, it's knowing when and how to change his footwork just enough to give him an edge. The problem is that requires him to know what EVERYONE on the field is doing. That takes a lot of time. Once the offense is working together, once they all know what the other is doing, it will be much easier to make adjustments during the play. What we basically saw all season was a series of practice sessions. It was simply unprecedented for a team with a first year coach and brand new system to have that much success. I am very excited to see what Crabtree and every other skill position player is capable of next year and the years that follow.

One thing is for sure, Crabtree is a BEAST when the ball is at it's high point. He is excellent at plucking the ball and being able to time his jump perfectly. Those are not coachable skills. Once he's able to blend that talent with knowledge of the system and chemistry with Alex (or whoever the QB is), he will be a force.

Agree with both of you and wonder if the foot problem is more significant than Crabtree is letting on. He did do an excellent job on a few routes mid-year and certainly in college, but he hasn't done so much or consistently. If VD had a hard time picking up the offense, guess it is understandable that MC had a more difficult time.

I don't know how much he works in the off-season, or with who, so don't want to criticize him unduly. He is said to be in good shape every year so he does some work during down times.

This is where he can definitely improve. It's well documented that he has not had a lot of enthusiasm in working with Smith. Hopefully Smith's success this year will entice Crabtree to reach out and put in extra work with him. There are so many layers that go into a successful offensive system, and certainly the personal chemistry between a QB and WR is one of them. I hope he starts to feed off of the team first attitude that guys like Smith and Davis have.

I think we should go after Colston and move crabs to # 2 which i feel he would be a very good # 2 and thats about his ceiling from what he's shown so far... draft another WR in round 1 or 2 and resign Morgan ... Do not trade up for Blackmon not sold on this guy at all already reading alot of knocks on him ... I would be real nice to get D Jack but the eagles are gonna franchise him

I think crabtree is developing well. He has s lot of work to do but he's shown he can do it on this level. He's not going anywhere imo

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
crabtree is a slid #2 WR

we just need 1 #1 WR and our WR corps suddenly becomes good (assuming we resign morgan)

I agree Crabs can and will probably always be a solid #2 wr in the NFL.

Problem is gonna be that he thinks he is a solid #1 wr in the NFL and wants the attention and money that that comands.

We cannot pay him that type of money if we are going to go out and get a true #1 wr.

Plus, will he be happy with being the #2 guy? I really don't think he will and I just hope problems with chemistry don't become and issue.

Originally posted by rk1642:
I agree Crabs can and will probably always be a solid #2 wr in the NFL.

Problem is gonna be that he thinks he is a solid #1 wr in the NFL and wants the attention and money that that comands.

We cannot pay him that type of money if we are going to go out and get a true #1 wr.

Plus, will he be happy with being the #2 guy? I really don't think he will and I just hope problems with chemistry don't become and issue.

i agree on money think but i dont think the pride thing will be a problem

his numbers will increase being #2 WR he just has problem against the better corners in nfl and he had extra attention which he was unable to gain seperation from

as a #2 not much extra attention would follow him (#1 WR and VD would have that covered) and should dominate the #2 CB relativly easily

rk, that thot crossed my mind, but i don't think it will be an issue until his last contract yr. Then....hmmm

We will not spend the money needed to grab one of the #1s like VJackson or Bowe. To do so would turn the carefully manicured salary structure upside down. WILL. NOT. HAPPEN.

My conviction is that Baalke will look for value in a WR in FA. If he finds what he likes he will grab it. There are a lot of FA receivers coming up plus a lot of good ones coming in the draft. Those facts may keep the market value down for FAs. Time will tell.

The top four WRs coming out this year will all be gone before #30. Therefore it is a crapshoot whether or not any WR available at that spot will be worth the value of the slot. I suspect Baalke will sign a tall FA and then look for a speedy guy in rounds 2-4, leaving the #30 spot for a guard or an OLB.

NOTE: I expect Baalke to re-sign all the FAs currently on the team unless someone like Brooks gets a market busting offer from someone. Hence I do not factor something like Brooks leaving into my analysis. However, we need depth at OLB and a quality RG. Cordy Glenn or Kevin Zeitler would be nice.

Originally posted by boomer49er:

I think crabtree is developing well. He has s lot of work to do but he's shown he can do it on this level. He's not going anywhere imo

King Crab is a boss !

There is nothing wrong with having three quality starters

Originally posted by boomer49er:
I think crabtree is developing well. He has s lot of work to do but he's shown he can do it on this level. He's not going anywhere imo

This, people exaggerate how poorly he plays. The guy would put up much better numbers if he had the ball fed to him as much as Bowe does for example. He's not a great #1, but he can be a very good #2, plus it would help if he had someone on the opposite to draw the defense, which is why I'm all for a guy like Garcon. Having Garcon on one side, Crabtree on the other and VD up the middle instantly makes life harder for any defense.

Originally posted by dj43:
We will not spend the money needed to grab one of the #1s like VJackson or Bowe. To do so would turn the carefully manicured salary structure upside down. WILL. NOT. HAPPEN.

My conviction is that Baalke will look for value in a WR in FA. If he finds what he likes he will grab it. There are a lot of FA receivers coming up plus a lot of good ones coming in the draft. Those facts may keep the market value down for FAs. Time will tell.

The top four WRs coming out this year will all be gone before #30. Therefore it is a crapshoot whether or not any WR available at that spot will be worth the value of the slot. I suspect Baalke will sign a tall FA and then look for a speedy guy in rounds 2-4, leaving the #30 spot for a guard or an OLB.

NOTE: I expect Baalke to re-sign all the FAs currently on the team unless someone like Brooks gets a market busting offer from someone. Hence I do not factor something like Brooks leaving into my analysis. However, we need depth at OLB and a quality RG. Cordy Glenn or Kevin Zeitler would be nice.

I agree.

49ers will approach the WR's the same way they did CB's last season. They will bid on a guy based on what they deem his value to be, if another team goes above that, oh well, see you later. There not going to get caught up in any bidding wars, they'll remain patient until they find the best possible bargain.

I don't think we'll ever see another Nate Clements/Justin Smith type free agent contract with this current front office. They are going to give their own players big contract and supplement with bargain or mid level free agent signings.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
My guess all along has been that we bundle craps up with maybe a 2nd pick for a much higher pick in the draft. Another thot has been to package craps AND Kap for a run at the #2 or #3 pick in draft, Blackmon. I know there is a lot of sentiment for Kap, but i think Tolzien has #2 nailed down...tight. Hence, offer both for a blackmon.
What i don't see is getting a real bona fide #1 WR in FA and Baalke/Harbaugh keeping a #4 or #5 WR who is making #1 WR money. I guess they could offer craps less money for a #4 WR, but don't see that going over well. Also, drafting high will mean giving up something, and craps did have a run of circus catches at midseason before disappearing. Maybe he would be of interest along with another of our picks or as noted above bundled with Kap for a shot at Blackmon. I am curious how many think we keep craps and his #1 salary if we FA a #1 WR and move up for a high #2 WR pick.

It does seem that Crabs is not totally there. Often I wonder if he ever really got over not being drafted by Dallas or a team with as the #1 in a wide open passing attack. I don't think we can be assured what JH is really thinking about him. Clearly there was no option but to play him, especially when Braylon didn't work out. But the point you make about cost versus value is a good one. My sense is that when we look at the options it won't make sense to try to trade him. The value just won't be there unless Jerry Jones shares Crab's love affair. What I am hoping is that JH sits down with him during the offseason and really gets in his head and make him see there is no really sane choice for him but to fully commit himself to giving 110% right here in SF. If he dogs it, who will want him with that kind of an attitude. Think what the league learned about TO and Randy M. If he drops the unresolved crap he's carrying in his head from clear back to his hold out, and commits himself to being here it all could change. Obviously, he's not playing his best, and possibly because of his attitude. It's a negative self-reinforcing loop. If JH can help him see the issue is between his ears and that no one is going to suffer more than him if he doesn't deal with it, things could change dramatically.

high pick WR, maybe not the top WR in FA but one of the top tier in the FA market and Crabs will still be here. we need major changes to the WR group and i think everyone knows it. that being said if an awesome DL or OLB fall to us Id take that over a WR. our defense is one or two players away from being legendary