Get rid of Kyle Williams or keep him?

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He's not going to become a good player, period. If the dude isnt hurt, he's making bone headed decisions.

How do you know that? Jeez....where do you guys come up with this stuff?

He's had 21 catches in two years. WTF are you waiting for him to do? Hes not gonna be setting the league on fire. The dude is a 5 spot at best, theres plenty of recievers out there who could do his job on the bench. He's not gonna wake up one day and have it all click for him. The game obviously moves too fast for him.


If it came down between him and a rookie WR in camp next year i would take the rookie who didnt cost us a trip to the Super Bowl.

1) He was hurt for most of the year last year (someting you really should already know)
2) He started deep on the depth chart and steadily climbed it due both to injuries ahead of him and his performance.

ROTFLMAO!!! "Game obviously moves to fast for him". You guys are funny. I swear I doubt any of you have ever done anything remotely athletic in your life. The guy flat screwed up. It happens. He was trying to make a play.

As for the rookie comment......well, if the rookie is better, I got no prob. If it's for the reason you describe, that why bad teams stay bad.

Before Sunday, no one was complaining about his performances. If anything, lots of us were on his jock. Now, after one bad game, you guys wanna ship him away.


Alex gave you 6 years of s**t. 6 YEARS! and some of you still have/had his nuts glued to your chin.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Um...dunno how to tell you this, but he was down in the Seahawks game. So...if that's your best attempt at creating a "pattern of verifiable malfeasance" you'd better try another angle.

Do you think Williams knew he was "technically" down? Hell no he didn't. The whistle HAD NOT blown. Players get up and run all the time after going down untouched. He started to get up and his actions could easily have been interpreted as he was trying to advance. There was NO whistle. He either needs to get up and run, or cover up on the ball and wait for a whistle. He did neither. Just because I'm not an apologist for him doesn't mean I hate the dude. I'm just stating the fact that he has a low football IQ.

Wait....are you suggesting that he didn't think he was down in Seattle!?!

Until we get a valid replacement, dropping him would be extremely short sighted and damaging to the locker room

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
Before Sunday, no one was complaining about his performances. If anything, lots of us were on his jock. Now, after one bad game, you guys wanna ship him away.


Alex gave you 6 years of s**t. 6 YEARS! and some of you still have/had his nuts glued to your chin.

I need an applause Icon....

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He's had 21 catches in two years. WTF are you waiting for him to do? Hes not gonna be setting the league on fire.

He didn't really play his rookie season due to injury and when he did play his handful of plays it was on Special Teams. Don't count two years because he didn't play two years, look at what he did this year (in limited action even). It was essentially his rookie season. 20 catches, 14 of them for first downs, and 3 TDs isn't all that bad for a rookie, 5th on the depth chart, that didn't get in the game much.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He's not going to become a good player, period. If the dude isnt hurt, he's making bone headed decisions.

How do you know that? Jeez....where do you guys come up with this stuff?

He's had 21 catches in two years. WTF are you waiting for him to do? Hes not gonna be setting the league on fire. The dude is a 5 spot at best, theres plenty of recievers out there who could do his job on the bench. He's not gonna wake up one day and have it all click for him. The game obviously moves too fast for him.


If it came down between him and a rookie WR in camp next year i would take the rookie who didnt cost us a trip to the Super Bowl.

1) He was hurt for most of the year last year (someting you really should already know)
2) He started deep on the depth chart and steadily climbed it due both to injuries ahead of him and his performance.

ROTFLMAO!!! "Game obviously moves to fast for him". You guys are funny. I swear I doubt any of you have ever done anything remotely athletic in your life. The guy flat screwed up. It happens. He was trying to make a play.

As for the rookie comment......well, if the rookie is better, I got no prob. If it's for the reason you describe, that why bad teams stay bad.

um in my original post i said that hes often injured. And yes the game does move too fast for him, he has no game awareness. I dont see why you guys are so hung up on him. The only reason he was seeing the field was because our WR were dropping like flies.

Yupp, he flat screwed up. Twice, in the biggest game for the franchise since 1998 arguably before that. Like i said, if hes gonna be a bench warmer he needs to bring other tools to the table, he obviously cant return. I would rather get a backup who can do both.

ridiculous thread is ridiculous

Originally posted by Marvin49:
He was OWNED?

Where the hell do you get that? He didn't even PLAY in most of the year and when he did he played well.

Seriously....do you guys just make this stuff up as you go?

Yes, that is exactly what they do. Him being owned by average CBs got this team 14 first downs and exactly one less TD than Crabtree, in less than 1/4 of the time on the field and even less passes going his way.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
If this would have happened on a regular season Sunday, Williams would have been CUT on Monday. For all you who keep whining/rationalizing that "it takes a team," "1-for-13 on 3rd down," blah blah blah, that's just LAME. Yes the offense was struggling, and of course you can deconstruct every game to say "well if this guy did this, then that would or wouldn't have happened." Stop it. The facts are that, as much as Smith/Offense were struggling, at the beginning of the 4th qtr they had enough points to win. The Niner D was KILLING Manning and the Giants...I don't think they even made it past midfield in 2nd half / OT, EXCEPT for the two gifts from Williams.

Sorry, the dude is a bubble player to begin with, easily replaceable...his modest WR skills are not even close to offsetting the liability of his PROVEN low football IQ. Don't forget, besides his spotty history in college, he almost cost the Niners the #2 seed in that Dec. 24th game against the Seahawks...Niners were very lucky a questionable personal foul was called on the 'Hawks on the KO return where Williams slipped and didn't realize he was NOT down, and then fumbled on the hit.

yeah, I remember when we cut Delanie Walker, David Baas, and Philip Adams after their mistakes against the Saints last year.

Please. None of those players made 6, count 'em, SIX egregious errors in a single game. Of those six, 3 cost the 49ers yardage in a field-position game. One, the diving catch of the punt, was just risky and stupid given circumstances and conditions. Another one, the muff, inexcusable...you yell "poison" and get the hell away from the ball. And finally, the fumble. In case you didn't notice, those last two effectively gave the Giants 10 points and a trip to Indy for the SB.

6? come on man.

1) drop/fumble on the attempted reverse, loss of 10 yards...this was on 1st/10, RIGHT AFTER holding Giants on 4th down.

2) dive to catch the punt

3 & 4) fair catches with no one within 10 yards...the second one I don't think there was a Giant within 15 yards.

5) muff

6) fumble

you fault him risky plays and also fault him for making the safe plays?

i count one "egregious error" in that list. The muff.

Not just that, but everyone is crucifying him over that last fumble....

....had any of you watched what had happened BEFORE that play. The O did NOTHING. NOTHING!!

The only points in the second half were scored after....wait for it....LONG KYLE WILLIAMS KICKOFF RETURNS!!!

As for the list above

1) bad play, but I actually blame the play call more then anything. You don;t call a play that puts the ball at risk that many times in those conditions. He also made a good play to get it back.

2) Bad play....but if you know anything about Candlestick, it's pretty common. On a windy, rainy day the ball will do some weird things in the air. He should have just let it go, but they guy is very young and will make those kinds of mistakes.

3 +4) No clue what you are talking about. Dunno those specific plays...but it's one or the other. He should either be conservative or try to make a play. Make up your mind.

5) BAD, BAD play. Total brainfart. Not excusing it.

6) He was trying to give the O good field position because they had shown ZERO ability to move the ball. None. He knew all they needed was a field goal and he tried to go out and win the game. I won't fault a guy for it.

1) That reverse was actually a good play call when you consider that it would have gained some good yardage. The Giants left DE did not hold contain, the (49er) right side was open. But regardless if you consider it a good or bad play call, the fact is: Williams dropped it and set up a 2nd/20.

2) No need to trot out excuses about youth, Candlestick, etc. Bad play. Period.

3-4) Oh please, as if one can only "root" for one extreme or the other. I root for the smart play. And in the context of punt returns, when there is no one within a couple yards of making the hit, let alone 10+, the smart play is to return the ball.

6) Agreed, he was trying to make a play. But again, HE fumbled it. Not the struggling offense.

I'll reiterate, I don't hate Kyle Williams, I don't want his planted on a spit outside the Stick. I'm just saying he made of host of bad plays, and I don't think it will be detrimental in any way if he is not on the 49ers next season.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
He's not going to become a good player, period. If the dude isnt hurt, he's making bone headed decisions.

How do you know that? Jeez....where do you guys come up with this stuff?

He's had 21 catches in two years. WTF are you waiting for him to do? Hes not gonna be setting the league on fire. The dude is a 5 spot at best, theres plenty of recievers out there who could do his job on the bench. He's not gonna wake up one day and have it all click for him. The game obviously moves too fast for him.


If it came down between him and a rookie WR in camp next year i would take the rookie who didnt cost us a trip to the Super Bowl.

1) He was hurt for most of the year last year (someting you really should already know)
2) He started deep on the depth chart and steadily climbed it due both to injuries ahead of him and his performance.

ROTFLMAO!!! "Game obviously moves to fast for him". You guys are funny. I swear I doubt any of you have ever done anything remotely athletic in your life. The guy flat screwed up. It happens. He was trying to make a play.

As for the rookie comment......well, if the rookie is better, I got no prob. If it's for the reason you describe, that why bad teams stay bad.

um in my original post i said that hes often injured. And yes the game does move too fast for him, he has no game awareness. I dont see why you guys are so hung up on him. The only reason he was seeing the field was because our WR were dropping like flies.

Yupp, he flat screwed up. Twice, in the biggest game for the franchise since 1998 arguably before that. Like i said, if hes gonna be a bench warmer he needs to bring other tools to the table, he obviously cant return. I would rather get a backup who can do both.

"Often injured"....as in ONCE? Lame.

We aren't "hung up" on him. Its a larger issue. You don't simply cut a guy because he made a mistake. Yes, it was a big game, but it's the SAME game. The size of the consequences don't change the fact that you need to throw, catch and receive. He could have screwed up at any time. Any player could have.

He shouldn't simply be released because it happened to be the NFC Championship game. He was trying to make a play. If you punish guys for trying to make a play, they won't try anymore.

That is, in a nutshell, the Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary era.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:
The Niners were winning 14-10 and the only points the Giants scored in the 2nd half and OT were off his crucial mistakes. As a 4 or 5th spot reciever, he needs to have skill sets that help the team in other areas ie special teams. And hes proven that he cant do that, so lets find one that can.

He helped his team plenty on special teams. You think the only time he played special teams was when he was returning punts/kicks? Nope, he was on the coverage team when the 9ers kicked it away and blocking for Gin when he was returning, part of the best ST unit in football (not to mention he actually had a few really good returns himself to set up 49ers points). The idea that he's proven that "he can't do that" on special teams is short sighted at best.

Originally posted by 49er4america:

.

Not my post, but speaking my language. But Honk if you see me in the streets with this on the back of the Car.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
If this would have happened on a regular season Sunday, Williams would have been CUT on Monday. For all you who keep whining/rationalizing that "it takes a team," "1-for-13 on 3rd down," blah blah blah, that's just LAME. Yes the offense was struggling, and of course you can deconstruct every game to say "well if this guy did this, then that would or wouldn't have happened." Stop it. The facts are that, as much as Smith/Offense were struggling, at the beginning of the 4th qtr they had enough points to win. The Niner D was KILLING Manning and the Giants...I don't think they even made it past midfield in 2nd half / OT, EXCEPT for the two gifts from Williams.

Sorry, the dude is a bubble player to begin with, easily replaceable...his modest WR skills are not even close to offsetting the liability of his PROVEN low football IQ. Don't forget, besides his spotty history in college, he almost cost the Niners the #2 seed in that Dec. 24th game against the Seahawks...Niners were very lucky a questionable personal foul was called on the 'Hawks on the KO return where Williams slipped and didn't realize he was NOT down, and then fumbled on the hit.

yeah, I remember when we cut Delanie Walker, David Baas, and Philip Adams after their mistakes against the Saints last year.

Please. None of those players made 6, count 'em, SIX egregious errors in a single game. Of those six, 3 cost the 49ers yardage in a field-position game. One, the diving catch of the punt, was just risky and stupid given circumstances and conditions. Another one, the muff, inexcusable...you yell "poison" and get the hell away from the ball. And finally, the fumble. In case you didn't notice, those last two effectively gave the Giants 10 points and a trip to Indy for the SB.

6? come on man.

1) drop/fumble on the attempted reverse, loss of 10 yards...this was on 1st/10, RIGHT AFTER holding Giants on 4th down.

2) dive to catch the punt

3 & 4) fair catches with no one within 10 yards...the second one I don't think there was a Giant within 15 yards.

5) muff

6) fumble

you fault him risky plays and also fault him for making the safe plays?

i count one "egregious error" in that list. The muff.

Not just that, but everyone is crucifying him over that last fumble....

....had any of you watched what had happened BEFORE that play. The O did NOTHING. NOTHING!!

The only points in the second half were scored after....wait for it....LONG KYLE WILLIAMS KICKOFF RETURNS!!!

As for the list above

1) bad play, but I actually blame the play call more then anything. You don;t call a play that puts the ball at risk that many times in those conditions. He also made a good play to get it back.

2) Bad play....but if you know anything about Candlestick, it's pretty common. On a windy, rainy day the ball will do some weird things in the air. He should have just let it go, but they guy is very young and will make those kinds of mistakes.

3 +4) No clue what you are talking about. Dunno those specific plays...but it's one or the other. He should either be conservative or try to make a play. Make up your mind.

5) BAD, BAD play. Total brainfart. Not excusing it.

6) He was trying to give the O good field position because they had shown ZERO ability to move the ball. None. He knew all they needed was a field goal and he tried to go out and win the game. I won't fault a guy for it.

1) That reverse was actually a good play call when you consider that it would have gained some good yardage. The Giants left DE did not hold contain, the (49er) right side was open. But regardless if you consider it a good or bad play call, the fact is: Williams dropped it and set up a 2nd/20.

2) No need to trot out excuses about youth, Candlestick, etc. Bad play. Period.

3-4) Oh please, as if one can only "root" for one extreme or the other. I root for the smart play. And in the context of punt returns, when there is no one within a couple yards of making the hit, let alone 10+, the smart play is to return the ball.

6) Agreed, he was trying to make a play. But again, HE fumbled it. Not the struggling offense.

I'll reiterate, I don't hate Kyle Williams, I don't want his planted on a spit outside the Stick. I'm just saying he made of host of bad plays, and I don't think it will be detrimental in any way if he is not on the 49ers next season.

1) It's not a good play call if it doesn't work (well...that may be too simplistic, but you get my point). You have to factor in the playing conditions when you call a play like that.

2) You not wanting me to trot them out doesn't make them any less true.

3+4) Just calling out hypocracy.

6) I didn't say the offense fumbled it. I was saying that he was trying to help his team win. He didn't hand the ball to the Giants on purpose. He was trying to win the game. The other guys get paid too. They defender made an outstanding play and Williams WAS trying to protect the ball by switching it to his outside arm (something you learn in the most masic levels of football....I mean like in Pop Warner). The defender dove and hit the ball as it was being switched to the other hand. Bad Luck. Good play by defender.