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Should we trade Vernon Davis?

Should we trade Vernon Davis?

  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I think we all know Vernon sucks at change in direction.

Vernon = the DHB of TE's

Wouldn't that make him the taylor mays of TE's? workout champ, the body, the size, but fails at teh basics?

  • fly15
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,225
Originally posted by susweel:
Man just imagine VD playing on a team with a real QB and good system he would put up some crazy numbers.

we have a real QB according to Harbaugh.....
I dont think we should trade VD
Originally posted by Joecool:
Are you a coach? Can you explain to me why Vernon is not very effective on shorter routes? We can go in circles about this. I'm only pointing out what I haven't seen him do on a consistent basis vs the other top TE's in the league.

No but I am a coachs assistant for a division 1 college football team. I am around football year round. I also know you cant evaluate player strickly from watching a game from a fans perspective on sundays. Hell I cant evaluate him because Im not there at practice. Im not in there meetings. Im not there to see what there asking him to do. What doesnt lie is that VD Tied the NFL record for touchdowns by a TE with Alex Smith and Shawn Hill as his QB. I wonder how good of a year Gates and all these other TE would do with there so perfectly ran short routes. And He hasnt done that because we dont have any other weponds on the outside. Hes the main threat in the recieving game. Of course there going to take away the short under routes. Thats not hard to do when we dont push the ball down field. When we have a QB that can get him the ball on a consistent basis youll start to notice why hes one of the best in the game.
  • krizay
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Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Ohio49ersfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Ohio49ersfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Ohio49ersfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Its not his fault we kept him in to block against Dallas. If anythign we need to ket him the f**king ball more

No, that doesn't help but the main reason he's only an average TE to me is this:

He can't beat a defense when the defense is focused on him. The top tier TE's in the league get open no matter what for the most part. Whitten did it. Gonzales did it against us last year and does it vs most teams. Gates does also.

These tight ends have success when opponents focus on them.

Vernon, doesn't do much until the defense makes a mistake or the play is well designed.

OK I think this is simple if you open you mind alittle bit here. Lets name the top TEs Witten, Gates, Clark, Gonzales, VD
Lets now name there QBs Romo, Rivers, Manning, Ryan, Smith Do you see something that sticks out. We need a qb that can push a ball down the field. Only then will we see the full potental of Vernon.

And yes I know Mannings injured.

I would say the QB but Alex Smith has shown he can get the ball to a check down and there has also been many times when he's thrown the ball to Vernon who wasn't looking or there's been post game quotes saying they weren't on the same page on hot routes and stuff.

Vernon is not a shifty TE and he does not have great start/stop quickness. He is a deep threat that hasn't shown much else...no different than Ginn or DHB. A QB doesn't need a TE like this. The only routes he's been successful on has been the 7 route, deep seam route and the back side slant behind the LB's on rollouts.

That's 3 types of routes he's successful with. Teams shut those off and he's just a big body that takes up space or he's a perpetual "decoy" that we must send deep which leave Alex without his safety valve.

So all these TE playing with ProBowl QBs has nothing to do with it. Everything in this league is directly connected to the QB possition. If VD played for New England we would be saying hes the best TE in the League.

No. NE had one of the fastest players in the league with Ben Watson as their TE. He didn't really do much.

The TE position, it is extremely important to be able to be quick and aware than it is to be fast. Vernon is anything but quick and has rarely shown to be aware when running routes.

Watson broke free of one tackle to earn the first down; in all, Watson broke three tackles and outran five defenders, taking the ball 63 yards to score the touchdown. Even more notable, though, was his pursuit and tackle of Champ Bailey during the Patriots' 2005 AFC Divisional Playoff game against Denver on January 14, 2006. Bailey intercepted a Tom Brady pass in Denver's endzone, and proceeded to run it down the full length of the (near) side-line, towards New England's endzone. At the time of the interception, Watson was on the opposite side of the field from Bailey (on the far side-line), and so he had to take a diagonal pursuit the full (diagonal) length of the field in order to have a chance of catching him. Watson caught up with Bailey at New England's 2-yard lin

None of that has anything to do with VD. Your just trying to say that there similer players and there not lol. Not even close. Comparing Watson to Davis nonsence. Name me the great TE in the league right now without a ProBowl QB. Theres a reason why VD is a top 100 player. Hey where did they have Watson ranked im sure his tackle on Bailey put him over the edge. LOL

He was a first round draft pick and, similar to Vernon, he had some off the charts measurables. So, to say Vernon would do great in NE is false. He wouldn't even be able to keep up with his route assignments there.

Tell me, which part of the field has VD had the majority of his success? What do defense try to stop in terms of Vernon more than anything? Why is he THE only top TE who cannot beat double teams? Why is he the ONLY top TE who cannot effectively/consistently get the ball on the shorter routes?

So you are saying Alex is stunting Vernon? What about when Shaun Hill played effectively and Vernon was nowhere around in the shorter routes?

Just like it is fair to put two and two together when we don't see Alex make certain throws, I'm sure there's a reason why we don't see Vernon in certain routes.

Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by susweel:
Man just imagine VD playing on a team with a real QB and good system he would put up some crazy numbers.

I know right. He'd probably tie the NFL record for TDs by a TE

LOL.
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by 5280High:
This thread seperates the men from the boys in terms of football knowledge.

So true! So true! No matter how hard I try to break it down for them..................... Oh wait! This isn't my fight!

Gates-Rivers-Jackson
Clark-Manning-Wayne
Witten-Romo-Austin
Davis-Smith- ? ( who can step up)


So many things are still missing from this team. We need a QB and a WR to step up and help Vernon.
Does anyone really think that teams double Gates, Clark, Witten as much as VD gets doubled. Whats surrounding these guys thats not around Vernon? Probowl Players that demand the same Respect that Vernon gets. We need players that demand double teams besides Davis. When we have that well have more one on one chances to take advantage of.
[ Edited by Ohio49ersfan on Sep 23, 2011 at 3:19 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by unst4bl3:
How is it that dallas can design an offense where whitten can torch any defense, or the pats and gronkowski destroy any defense. We have VD who is faster than both (which should make match up problems even more apparent) yet he disappears every game?

I think we all know Vernon sucks at change in direction.

Vernon = the DHB of TE's

I'd have to agree with some of this..... Those great tight ends know how to read a defense. And I've said it before. Vernon's game is all speed and power. Like you say, change of direction isn't that good, hands aren't terrible, but not that great either and I don't think he is very good at reading a defense and finding the open areas in the zones. Those are all traits required by the WCO and I just don't see Vernon being very successful in it...

But I hope he proves me wrong.... I hope most of the players on this current team prove me wrong..
  • krizay
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 14,924
Originally posted by Ohio49ersfan:
Gates-Rivers-Jackson
Clark-Manning-Wayne
Witten-Romo-Austin
Davis-Smith- ? ( who can step up)


So many things are still missing from this team. We need a QB and a WR to step up and help Vernon.
Does anyone really think that teams double Gates, Clark, Witten. Whats surrounding these guys thats not around Vernon? Probowl Players that demand the same Respect that Vernon gets. We need players that demand double teams besides Davis. When we have that well have more one on one chances to take advantage of.

Gonzo did it with just a running game in KC
Gates did it with just LT in SD


Not just a general post not directed to anyone inparticular...

Here's the part that gets me! his 2 best years was '09 & '10 when EVERYONE on this board said we didn't have an OC. He didn't do anything with Norv! Nothing with Martz! Now Harbaugh! All these offensive "genius" all seem to use him the same way. Yet the one guy who had no clue as an OC used him... hmm!

Not too mention ALOT of his yardage and TD's seems to come when we're getting blown out. Why does he very rarely have BIG GAMES when we win?
Originally posted by krizay:
Gonzo did it with just a running game in KC
Gates did it with just LT in SD


Not just a general post not directed to anyone inparticular...

Here's the part that gets me! his 2 best years was '09 & '10 when EVERYONE on this board said we didn't have an OC. He didn't do anything with Norv! Nothing with Martz! Now Harbaugh! All these offensive "genius" all seem to use him the same way. Yet the one guy who had no clue as an OC used him... hmm!

Not too mention ALOT of his yardage and TD's seems to come when we're getting blown out. Why does he very rarely have BIG GAMES when we win?

Gonzo had Trent Green (2 Probowls) 4000 yard passer
Gates had Bress and Rivers (Two of the best QBs in the league)
.

For a Pro Bowl Caliber QB
For an elite pass rusher
For an elite NT
For a shutdown corner
possibly even for an elite WR
for A probowl Offensive Tackle

for any of these positions i would trade VD in a heart beat, then lock up Walker until someone beter can be had through the draft. I love VD, but he is overrated by niners fans. He may have tied the records for TD's by tightends but he is rarely a game changing TE. He is a good asset in the blocking game, and can stretch the field on occasions, but i dont see him being the type of TE that we need to run the WCO effectively.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Ohio49ersfan:
Gates-Rivers-Jackson
Clark-Manning-Wayne
Witten-Romo-Austin
Davis-Smith- ? ( who can step up)


So many things are still missing from this team. We need a QB and a WR to step up and help Vernon.
Does anyone really think that teams double Gates, Clark, Witten. Whats surrounding these guys thats not around Vernon? Probowl Players that demand the same Respect that Vernon gets. We need players that demand double teams besides Davis. When we have that well have more one on one chances to take advantage of.

Gonzo did it with just a running game in KC
Gates did it with just LT in SD


Not just a general post not directed to anyone inparticular...

Here's the part that gets me! his 2 best years was '09 & '10 when EVERYONE on this board said we didn't have an OC. He didn't do anything with Norv! Nothing with Martz! Now Harbaugh! All these offensive "genius" all seem to use him the same way. Yet the one guy who had no clue as an OC used him... hmm!

Not too mention ALOT of his yardage and TD's seems to come when we're getting blown out. Why does he very rarely have BIG GAMES when we win?

That's simply untrue


This should work.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I think we all know Vernon sucks at change in direction.

Vernon = the DHB of TE's

I had to login just to tell u sir that u are a moron!
Originally posted by QBguru:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I think we all know Vernon sucks at change in direction.

Vernon = the DHB of TE's

I had to login just to tell u sir that u are a moron!