Should we trade Vernon Davis?

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Whitten was left in to block on one play and did so. Romo scrambled to the right and Whitten then simply took 2 steps forward and turned around to be that SAFE for Romo. As Romo scrambled further, he threw a quick dart to Whitten for an 8 yard gain.

Vernon does not have these instincts to see the open spot and settle there.

Here's how that play actually breaks down. Alex sees his primary receiver is covered, he checks down for a 4 yard gain.

Your scenario requires 2 parties, and that's not Alex either.

I agree Vernon's insticts aren't spectacular, but 1,800 yards 20 touchdowns in 2 years doesn't lie. What he does well, he does better than any tight end in the league, and cannot be taken away from him. He's an absolute terror going across the stream and if you don't think that Delanie Walker wheel route touchdown pass had anything to do with Vernon going across the seam you're crazy.

I am not going to try and avoid his numbers. They are above average and top TE numbers. I'm pointing out where those numbers are accumulated for the most part. His strengths are not what a QB completely needs. His weakness is what Alex needs him to do more than anything. If we had a TE or slot WR who can break a defense down under the 10 yard range, THAT alone opens up the deep routes.

We have 0 threat player who can hurt a defense from the 0-10 middle range. This allows teams to run-blitz and get to the QB before he has time to get to the 10+ yard routes. Delanie and maybe Crabtree would probably be our best weapons in the 0-10 short middle and even Crabtree is a question on this one.

IDDIOT!! That's all i can say

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Whitten was left in to block on one play and did so. Romo scrambled to the right and Whitten then simply took 2 steps forward and turned around to be that SAFE for Romo. As Romo scrambled further, he threw a quick dart to Whitten for an 8 yard gain.

Vernon does not have these instincts to see the open spot and settle there.

Here's how that play actually breaks down. Alex sees his primary receiver is covered, he checks down for a 4 yard gain.

Your scenario requires 2 parties, and that's not Alex either.

I agree Vernon's insticts aren't spectacular, but 1,800 yards 20 touchdowns in 2 years doesn't lie. What he does well, he does better than any tight end in the league, and cannot be taken away from him. He's an absolute terror going across the stream and if you don't think that Delanie Walker wheel route touchdown pass had anything to do with Vernon going across the seam you're crazy.

I am not going to try and avoid his numbers. They are above average and top TE numbers. I'm pointing out where those numbers are accumulated for the most part. His strengths are not what a QB completely needs. His weakness is what Alex needs him to do more than anything. If we had a TE or slot WR who can break a defense down under the 10 yard range, THAT alone opens up the deep routes.

We have 0 threat player who can hurt a defense from the 0-10 middle range. This allows teams to run-blitz and get to the QB before he has time to get to the 10+ yard routes. Delanie and maybe Crabtree would probably be our best weapons in the 0-10 short middle and even Crabtree is a question on this one.

Crabtree's arms get shorter and he hears footsteps when he runs in the middle of the field. Plus on occasion he likes to play tip drill with the opposing defense.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I am not going to try and avoid his numbers. They are above average and top TE numbers. I'm pointing out where those numbers are accumulated for the most part. His strengths are not what a QB completely needs. His weakness is what Alex needs him to do more than anything. If we had a TE or slot WR who can break a defense down under the 10 yard range, THAT alone opens up the deep routes.

We have 0 threat player who can hurt a defense from the 0-10 middle range. This allows teams to run-blitz and get to the QB before he has time to get to the 10+ yard routes. Delanie and maybe Crabtree would probably be our best weapons in the 0-10 short middle and even Crabtree is a question on this one.

I don't agree with that. I think we have no speed at receiver so teams don't respect us going deep. Ted Ginn has speed, but it's straight line so teams know how to play him too. The spacing just isn't there for us to hit those slants, or work the middle of the field etc, etc.

You go back to last year and Alex wasn't blitzed that often. 32% of the time. They send 4, get pressure, and the receivers can't get separation. For most part we face coverage scenarios, and our talent just isn't good enough to break it. Say what you want about Vernon but if he's drawing double coverage across the seams that in itself will open up other opportunities. See the wheel route to Delanie.

Why trade him? Isn't he learning a new offense again? Are teams game planning against him?

We talk about Alex Smith's limitations but how he is a hard worker. The same can be said for Vernon.

Someone said after that season he had in 09 he hasn't been the same. What do you expect you don't think the rest of the league took notice?

The bottom line teams look at the 49ers and say take away their RB and TE and make the QB beat you! That's a problem and unless we overcome it there will be far more loses than wins.

Originally posted by Jakemall:
Can we trade some of our fans?

This thread makes me

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I am not going to try and avoid his numbers. They are above average and top TE numbers. I'm pointing out where those numbers are accumulated for the most part. His strengths are not what a QB completely needs. His weakness is what Alex needs him to do more than anything. If we had a TE or slot WR who can break a defense down under the 10 yard range, THAT alone opens up the deep routes.

We have 0 threat player who can hurt a defense from the 0-10 middle range. This allows teams to run-blitz and get to the QB before he has time to get to the 10+ yard routes. Delanie and maybe Crabtree would probably be our best weapons in the 0-10 short middle and even Crabtree is a question on this one.

I don't agree with that. I think we have no speed at receiver so teams don't respect us going deep. Ted Ginn has speed, but it's straight line so teams know how to play him too. The spacing just isn't there for us to hit those slants, or work the middle of the field etc, etc.

You go back to last year and Alex wasn't blitzed that often. 32% of the time. They send 4, get pressure, and the receivers can't get separation. For most part we face coverage scenarios, and our talent just isn't good enough to break it. Say what you want about Vernon but if he's drawing double coverage across the seams that in itself will open up other opportunities. See the wheel route to Delanie.

Our receivers are as fast as any team in the league. I don't see where Niners fans get our receivers being slow from.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by susweel:
Man just imagine VD playing on a team with a real QB and good system he would put up some crazy numbers.

I know right. He'd probably tie the NFL record for TDs by a TE

Originally posted by Joecool:
Our receivers are as fast as any team in the league. I don't see where Niners fans get our receivers being slow from.

Everyone assumes they are slow because they aren't very productive (yards wise), just like Davis sucks because we dont throw him the ball. Also, I know Davis doesn't have great lateral movement, but his speed alone gets him open as DBs have to worry about the deep pass so he is able to break right or left with ease. Sure the deep post was the bread and butter play, but he also made a ton of other plays all over the field. We just need to throw him the dam ball. I do agree he isn't going to get you any YAC on a 5 yard dump off though.

Draft numbers:

Josh Morgan : 4.47 forty
Crabtree: unknown
Ginn: let's just say he's fast enough

People wonder why we're called "Whiner fans" its not because Niner and Whiner rhymes.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Our receivers are as fast as any team in the league. I don't see where Niners fans get our receivers being slow from.

It's another one of those oft-repeated things that eventually becomes fact.

As of right now, New England is the top passing team in the league. Who in their receiving corps not named Welker is a burner? That's right -- no one. They're successful passing the ball because their coach is the best strategist in the game (and arguably in the history of the NFL). Same deal in Green Bay. None of their receivers are particularly known for torching anyone. Yet they remain a threat because of excellent route-running, great hands, and (again) solid scheming.

Our passing woes come from the fact that our QB is inconsistent, playing behind an even more inconsistent line that can't give him three seconds to throw. Until those two issues are addressed, we can have four DeSean Jackson's running down field every play and it won't make a bit of difference.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Draft numbers:

Josh Morgan : 4.47 forty
Crabtree: unknown
Ginn: let's just say he's fast enough

Ive never seen Josh Morgan use his speed EVER

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Draft numbers:

Josh Morgan : 4.47 forty
Crabtree: unknown
Ginn: let's just say he's fast enough

Ive never seen Josh Morgan use his speed EVER

He's gotten a few deep balls in the years. He has been behind the DB on numerous routes that weren't thrown to or over thrown or there was miscommunication.

FYI: it doesn't take speed to get open deep.

Brandon Lloyd: 4.61

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Our receivers are as fast as any team in the league. I don't see where Niners fans get our receivers being slow from.

It's another one of those oft-repeated things that eventually becomes fact.

As of right now, New England is the top passing team in the league. Who in their receiving corps not named Welker is a burner? That's right -- no one. They're successful passing the ball because they're coach is the best strategist in the game (arguably in the history of the NFL). Same deal in Green Bay. I would say none of their receivers are known for torching anyone. Yet they remain a threat because of excellent route-running, great hands, and (again) solid scheming.

Our passing woes come from the fact that our QB is inconsistent, playing behind an even more inconsistent line that can't even give him three seconds to throw. Until those two issues are addressed, we could have four DeSean Jackson's running down field every play and it won't make a bit of difference.

This is why Alex Smith is always on the hot seat. We are seeing a lot of cover threes where the CB's and one Safety play deep third. Teams blitz off of it and force Alex to make the quick read and dare him to trust the receiver and throw it deep.

Who knows the reason why it's not happening.