"Developing the offense" my a$$

ummm we are running the WCO..which means timing patters and ball control(just look at Alex's competion %)...I think what your looking for is the spread or the run and shoot...

Originally posted by Hitman49:
ummm we are running the WCO..which means timing patters and ball control(just look at Alex's competion %)...I think what your looking for is the spread or the run and shoot...

All we have really ran are routes outside the hashes. Last time I remember, the WCO had many routes inside the hash marks. In 7 years, Alex has not thrown short middle often and he still has not thrown them often.

Why do you think?

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Hitman49:
ummm we are running the WCO..which means timing patters and ball control(just look at Alex's competion %)...I think what your looking for is the spread or the run and shoot...

All we have really ran are routes outside the hashes. Last time I remember, the WCO had many routes inside the hash marks. In 7 years, Alex has not thrown short middle often and he still has not thrown them often.

Why do you think?

Pressure up the middle? WRs running routes behind defenders instead of in front?

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Alex Smith and the offensive line will struggle if Harbaugh opened up this offense, and that would lead to the home crowd booing Smith. Why would you want that?

It is up to Alex Smith to stop the booing. That would just confirm he isn't the guy and help us move forward with or without him much faster.

Originally posted by gold49digger:

they only practiced the playbook for a month. Let them get the timing down. Besides, if harbaugh opened it up to the plays where they are not comfortable with yet, alex will make more WTF throws and NT will complain about giving alex smith too much s**t to handle.

You missed the point. Other teams in the league are in the same situation but aren't stunting themselves.

Joe, you keep missing the point, we are the only team switching to the WCO, none of the teams with new coaches changed their offensive systems. Go look it up man, we are the only team installing the WCO. I want the playcalling to be more aggressive, but the offensive line isn't allowing it yet. The real Joe Cool said to have patience, you gonna ignore the guy you respect enough to name yourself after?

Originally posted by gamechanger:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by verb1der:
I understand that, but maybe Alex should change some plays at the line and improvise a little bit, he clearly can see a defense blitzing why don't he change the play and make them pay? It's what "great" quarterbacks do but Alex will never be great like that, he's definitely playing good, but he's not great...yet.

In Harbaugh I trust.

No fear of Alex = 8 men in box = Alex doesn't make them pay = more blitzes..... etc, etc.

Alex made the Cowboys pay twice, the TD to Williams and the TD to Walker! Watch the games.

There are four quarters in a game and I watched them all.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by verb1der:
Alex Smith and the offensive line will struggle if Harbaugh opened up this offense, and that would lead to the home crowd booing Smith. Why would you want that?

It is up to Alex Smith to stop the booing. That would just confirm he isn't the guy and help us move forward with or without him much faster.

Originally posted by gold49digger:
they only practiced the playbook for a month. Let them get the timing down. Besides, if harbaugh opened it up to the plays where they are not comfortable with yet, alex will make more WTF throws and NT will complain about giving alex smith too much s**t to handle.

You missed the point. Other teams in the league are in the same situation but aren't stunting themselves.

Joe, you keep missing the point, we are the only team switching to the WCO, none of the teams with new coaches changed their offensive systems. Go look it up man, we are the only team installing the WCO. I want the playcalling to be more aggressive, but the offensive line isn't allowing it yet. The real Joe Cool said to have patience, you gonna ignore the guy you respect enough to name yourself after?

Bengals are having success with a rookie QB and a rookie WR. That alone is very difficult to do new offense or not. CAR is having MAJOR success with a rookie QB. We have a veteran squad who have seen complicated offenses. This offense is ONLY the WCO in play verbiage and OL blocking. The routes are not new to the QB/WR's.

Originally posted by gamechanger:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Hitman49:
ummm we are running the WCO..which means timing patters and ball control(just look at Alex's competion %)...I think what your looking for is the spread or the run and shoot...

All we have really ran are routes outside the hashes. Last time I remember, the WCO had many routes inside the hash marks. In 7 years, Alex has not thrown short middle often and he still has not thrown them often.

Why do you think?

Pressure up the middle? WRs running routes behind defenders instead of in front?

How do you know the WR's were running behind the defenders? If there was a blitz, the middle would be open. I don't know, all I can go by is that we have NOT seen Alex throw many passes to receivers over the middle his entire career including this year. Either the plays are not being called because the coach doesn't trust the WR's (highly unlikely) or the plays are not being called because the coach feels that's not the QB's strength (more likely since we haven't seen it).

Also was interesting reading Nate say Harbaugh is calling to Alex's strengths and I'm sure Nate knows his strengths. It is getting more and more likely Alex isn't comfortable throwing to WR's across the short middle or post routes.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Bengals are having success with a rookie QB and a rookie WR. That alone is very difficult to do new offense or not. CAR is having MAJOR success with a rookie QB. We have a veteran squad who have seen complicated offenses. This offense is ONLY the WCO in play verbiage and OL blocking. The routes are not new to the QB/WR's.

The squad has been in the digit system for years, one of the simplest offenses in football. None of the skill players except possibly Braylon have played in the WCO. Not sure if they ran it in Cleveland or not. The system is not even fully installed and already we have guys complaining that it isn't working smoothly. Some of our fans need to manage their expectations, we are a work in progress.

Look, Alex Smith can't have much more confidence than a one eyed beat down old dog, JH needs to be conservative early until he feels Alex can handle it. If we come out slinging it and Alex has a bad game, the fans will cry for blood, and Alex will slip further into a hole. IF and that's a big IF Alex's career can be salvaged, and he has any chance to become a top 10 NFL qb, he needs to be brought along slowly, maybe after the bye week he let's Alex have a little slack, but I expect lots of game management from both Alex and JH until this team and this QB are ready, and sorry folks to bring the bad news, they aint quite ready for prime time ...yet!

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:


Bengals are having success with a rookie QB and a rookie WR. That alone is very difficult to do new offense or not. CAR is having MAJOR success with a rookie QB. We have a veteran squad who have seen complicated offenses. This offense is ONLY the WCO in play verbiage and OL blocking. The routes are not new to the QB/WR's.

The squad has been in the digit system for years, one of the simplest offenses in football. None of the skill players except possibly Braylon have played in the WCO. Not sure if they ran it in Cleveland or not. The system is not even fully installed and already we have guys complaining that it isn't working smoothly. Some of our fans need to manage their expectations, we are a work in progress.

I'm sure if a play was called with a slant route, the WR and QB and OL would know what to do. The entire system may not be installed, but there's no excuse to not have some plays installed in the game plan. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be. So you are saying Jim Harbaugh, an NFL head coach, has not presented plays to this offense that require slant routes because it's too complicated?

I don't buy that.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Look, Alex Smith can't have much more confidence than a one eyed beat down old dog, JH needs to be conservative early until he feels Alex can handle it. If we come out slinging it and Alex has a bad game, the fans will cry for blood, and Alex will slip further into a hole. IF and that's a big IF Alex's career can be salvaged, and he has any chance to become a top 10 NFL qb, he needs to be brought along slowly, maybe after the bye week he let's Alex have a little slack, but I expect lots of game management from both Alex and JH until this team and this QB are ready, and sorry folks to bring the bad news, they aint quite ready for prime time ...yet!

If Alex is getting rocked on his ass in the 2nd half of games then I'm sure it is in his best interest to throw a slant route vs that coverage. I don't see how NOT doing this helps Alex while he's taking hits.

Did you also see Kafka a rookie in the WCO...in Andy Reid's WCO which isn't exactly the A, B, C's? He threw a corner route just as the WR stepped for his break and was NOT looking back. He was able to make other throws in the complicated WCO by a backup rookie who probably hasn't gotten any reps since preseason.

As others have said, I too agree with the original post 100%. Now, there are a variety of factors why our O has been so poor thus far (general weariness about Alex Smith, poor OL play and rampant miscommunications, etc) but it really is embarrassing to see a bunch of other teams with either past their prime QBs (Hasslebeck) or rookies (Newton and Dalton) throwing the ball around and looking great doing it.

A lot of this boils down to our scheme so far. I understand why Harbaugh may want to hold back a bit--the reasons cited above plus the abbreviated offseason--but we need to open up the offense and play to win instead of playing not to lose. Smith has actually played best when operating out of a spread formation, or at least allowed to throw the ball downfield. I believe that, though the group may lack an outright superstar, our pass catching corps is, top to bottom, among the most talented in the league: Crabtree, Edwards, Morgan, Ginn at WR plus Davis and Walker are very solid, the most talented group on O, and need to be exploited as such.

All in all, I'm tired of watching piss-poor offensive play coupled with a scheme designed not to lose the game rather than trying to go out there and actually win it. It's embarrassing, especially when a bunch of other teams with similar questions on offense are playing well, or at least exciting.

I love the Niners and always will. I truly enjoy watching the games and try to see every single one each year. That said, I find myself having more 'fun' watching games of other teams with good, attacking offenses. I'm willing to give Harbaugh time, but he needs to drop the Nolan/Hostler/Singletary/Raye approach quickly. Outside of QB, we have the skill position players to be dangerous on O...and I think Smith can be a serviceable QB if given the chance.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Did you also see Kafka a rookie in the WCO...in Andy Reid's WCO which isn't exactly the A, B, C's? He threw a corner route just as the WR stepped for his break and was NOT looking back. He was able to make other throws in the complicated WCO by a backup rookie who probably hasn't gotten any reps since preseason.

I don't think Jim is under the impression that Alex cant do it, I think he is keeping it dialed down for a number of other reasons. How many times have we seen Alex really go deep this year? Until we try and fail, I'm not gonna pin this on any one player. Cant blame somebody if there not given the chance to try.

I wish we took Aaron Rodgers argggggghhhh