There are 60 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

A big Implosion?

Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
So far, Harbaugh = Singletary

After one month? come on bro... how?

OL looks worse. Players appear to have very little idea of what they are supposed to do. Players are displaying terrible fundamentals. QB's look worse.

There can be more added. Keep in mind, Harbaugh is unproven.



The Niners as an organization have forgotten how to win.

Although I didn't go ballistic over the hiring of Baalke, I was disappointed that the Organization couldn't have brought in a guy with no connections to the preceding six-year fiasco. Someone with gravitas, intelligence and standing in the NFL comminity. You've got to be able to speak on equal terms with other GMs, not have to go through that "earn my respect" cycle that new members of the fraternity have to go through. Moreover we know that Baalke is no rocket scientist and is a bit mentally weak (got steam rolled by both Singletary and Harbaugh). However, it all falls back to lack of intelligence and insight of ownership. Specifically Jed York - he's just so weak. That said given all his limitations, Baalke hasn't done so bad. He did bring in the most coveted HC candidate out there.

But it's Harbaugh who to date is raising some real question marks. It's not that his team seems to have regressed. OK . . . it's preseason . . . blah, blah. It's that he seems to be out of it. Not in touch with the whole team psychology. Right now, the team doesn't know "winning": You don't bring back a guy who has been synonymous with the whole "loser" label as the trigger guy and expect the team to transform it's personality. You try to surround your players with leaders who have won; people who have and actually have the winning swagger. Most importantly at the trigger position. And then bluild on that. The roster does have some talent. The team had the chance to do it and chose not to. You can say all the bad stuff you want about Crabtree, but that was the impetus behind his remarks, when he questioned Smiths return. Right now the team has that WTF look about them and they're looking for winning leadership.

Harbaugh needs to pull something out of his a$$, and fast. Or he's going to lose this team. In that respect Harbaugh = Singletary.

JH is smarter (hopefully). Let's hope that he gets it done.



Nolan got flamed, big time, for having QB competitions and not letting the starter get more reps and ge chemistry with his offense. Why isn't JH getting flamed? He is not doing Alex Smith, the assumed starter, any favors by not giving him as many reps as possible. Why isn't Harbaugh getting flamed for this? He's made same QB decisions so far that Nolan was known to be an idiot for.



All I know is that Harbaugh hasn't proven anything yet and should be on the hot seat until he takes himself off it. We have put him on a pedastle and he doesn't deserve any flaming yet even though his QB decisions have been no different than Singletary or Nolan's. We have a veteran QB in McCown now who can step in if Alex gets injured. No need to get a rookie 2nd rounder from a pistol offense uber reps. We already learned that mishap from Nolan trying to push Alex forward. Why not let Alex get as many reps as other teams' starting QB?

I don't recall Nolan getting flamed that quickly. People were Rollin with Nolan round here. With the lock out etc, Harbaugh has had, so far, zero opportunity to make changes and do what he is paid to do.

But, unlike Nolan, it doesn't look as though a chunk of the zone want to give him any chance at all.

Reminds me of the posters who post how our latest draft pick is a bust before he even gets signed with the team.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Nolan got flamed, big time, for having QB competitions and not letting the starter get more reps and ge chemistry with his offense. Why isn't JH getting flamed? He is not doing Alex Smith, the assumed starter, any favors by not giving him as many reps as possible. Why isn't Harbaugh getting flamed for this? He's made same QB decisions so far that Nolan was known to be an idiot for.

All I know is that Harbaugh hasn't proven anything yet and should be on the hot seat until he takes himself off it. We have put him on a pedastle and he doesn't deserve any flaming yet even though his QB decisions have been no different than Singletary or Nolan's. We have a veteran QB in McCown now who can step in if Alex gets injured. No need to get a rookie 2nd rounder from a pistol offense uber reps. We already learned that mishap from Nolan trying to push Alex forward. Why not let Alex get as many reps as other teams' starting QB?

I don't believe that that is quite accurate, Joe. Nolan is a different case from JH. Nolan was not a hands-on offensive coach. He let his OC's run that side. And Alex was handed the job without competition until Matz came on board and decided otherwise, three years later. Even then the FO didn't bring in/draft anyone to really challenge Alex, as the team has done this year.

As for JH and his approach: Maybe he realises that Alex is not the answer; that this year is going to be rebuilding; and that he needs to get the replacements up to speed ASAP? Or, at least, show what they've got?

Hill challenged Alex. Then, there was a QB "Competition" between Carr and Alex. Those other coaches were seen as idiots to have a competition at all no matter who was the starter. This entire board questioned why the real starter isn't getting full starter reps in practice and preseason due to chemistry and new system.

Alas, Harbaugh is doing the exact same thing and it is fine.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
So far, Harbaugh = Singletary

After one month? come on bro... how?

OL looks worse. Players appear to have very little idea of what they are supposed to do. Players are displaying terrible fundamentals. QB's look worse.

There can be more added. Keep in mind, Harbaugh is unproven.



The Niners as an organization have forgotten how to win.

Although I didn't go ballistic over the hiring of Baalke, I was disappointed that the Organization couldn't have brought in a guy with no connections to the preceding six-year fiasco. Someone with gravitas, intelligence and standing in the NFL comminity. You've got to be able to speak on equal terms with other GMs, not have to go through that "earn my respect" cycle that new members of the fraternity have to go through. Moreover we know that Baalke is no rocket scientist and is a bit mentally weak (got steam rolled by both Singletary and Harbaugh). However, it all falls back to lack of intelligence and insight of ownership. Specifically Jed York - he's just so weak. That said given all his limitations, Baalke hasn't done so bad. He did bring in the most coveted HC candidate out there.

But it's Harbaugh who to date is raising some real question marks. It's not that his team seems to have regressed. OK . . . it's preseason . . . blah, blah. It's that he seems to be out of it. Not in touch with the whole team psychology. Right now, the team doesn't know "winning": You don't bring back a guy who has been synonymous with the whole "loser" label as the trigger guy and expect the team to transform it's personality. You try to surround your players with leaders who have won; people who have and actually have the winning swagger. Most importantly at the trigger position. And then bluild on that. The roster does have some talent. The team had the chance to do it and chose not to. You can say all the bad stuff you want about Crabtree, but that was the impetus behind his remarks, when he questioned Smiths return. Right now the team has that WTF look about them and they're looking for winning leadership.

Harbaugh needs to pull something out of his a$$, and fast. Or he's going to lose this team. In that respect Harbaugh = Singletary.

JH is smarter (hopefully). Let's hope that he gets it done.



Nolan got flamed, big time, for having QB competitions and not letting the starter get more reps and ge chemistry with his offense. Why isn't JH getting flamed? He is not doing Alex Smith, the assumed starter, any favors by not giving him as many reps as possible. Why isn't Harbaugh getting flamed for this? He's made same QB decisions so far that Nolan was known to be an idiot for.



All I know is that Harbaugh hasn't proven anything yet and should be on the hot seat until he takes himself off it. We have put him on a pedastle and he doesn't deserve any flaming yet even though his QB decisions have been no different than Singletary or Nolan's. We have a veteran QB in McCown now who can step in if Alex gets injured. No need to get a rookie 2nd rounder from a pistol offense uber reps. We already learned that mishap from Nolan trying to push Alex forward. Why not let Alex get as many reps as other teams' starting QB?

I don't recall Nolan getting flamed that quickly. People were Rollin with Nolan round here. With the lock out etc, Harbaugh has had, so far, zero opportunity to make changes and do what he is paid to do.

But, unlike Nolan, it doesn't look as though a chunk of the zone want to give him any chance at all.

Reminds me of the posters who post how our latest draft pick is a bust before he even gets signed with the team.

Nolan was getting questioned about not giving the starting QB starter reps to help apply the offense as a team and build chemistry. Singletary was questioned for the same thing. I don't know why you don't think that happened. A chunk of the zone were questioning them and how they handled the important reps of a starting QB in gameday sitauations to build chemistry with his team.

Even Tim Ryan questioned Harbaugh's decision to do this but the zone does not want to question this, which is why I am doing so. Yet it is considered dumb to do so.
Pretty ridiculous to even compare Harbaugh to the previous head coaches. I mean come on, the league was in a fricken lockout. That meant no OTA's and players couldn't even talk to the coaches to get things down. The Niners were often mentioned as a team that would be most affected by the lockout, so why all the overreaction over the teams struggles in the preseason. Harbaugh and the coaching staff as a whole are trying to implement a system while at the same time they are evaluating the talent they have on the team. So yeah, give the guy a break already, hea hasn't even coached a regular season game yet.
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Pretty ridiculous to even compare Harbaugh to the previous head coaches. I mean come on, the league was in a fricken lockout. That meant no OTA's and players couldn't even talk to the coaches to get things down. The Niners were often mentioned as a team that would be most affected by the lockout, so why all the overreaction over the teams struggles in the preseason. Harbaugh and the coaching staff as a whole are trying to implement a system while at the same time they are evaluating the talent they have on the team. So yeah, give the guy a break already, hea hasn't even coached a regular season game yet.

So this fake competition for the starting QB that is taking Alex Smith's in game reps to build chemistry with his starters isn't the same mistake previous head coaches got flamed for? The comparison is valid so far. Tell me, why can't one compare their decisions, which have been very similar so far?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Nolan was getting questioned about not giving the starting QB starter reps to help apply the offense as a team and build chemistry. Singletary was questioned for the same thing. I don't know why you don't think that happened. A chunk of the zone were questioning them and how they handled the important reps of a starting QB in gameday sitauations to build chemistry with his team.

Even Tim Ryan questioned Harbaugh's decision to do this but the zone does not want to question this, which is why I am doing so. Yet it is considered dumb to do so.

I wanted the first team to get more reps also. But, I'm not going to rip Harbaugh until the reg season if neccesary. Nolan and Sing didn't get ripped their first preseasons. If I recall, both coaches had BS success in preseason which made the fans more optimistic than anything else. Also, I agree with you that we should have brought in a veteran, but Baalke should get more of that blame than Harbaugh.
Originally posted by SF4EVA:

HAMMER TIME
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Nolan was getting questioned about not giving the starting QB starter reps to help apply the offense as a team and build chemistry. Singletary was questioned for the same thing. I don't know why you don't think that happened. A chunk of the zone were questioning them and how they handled the important reps of a starting QB in gameday sitauations to build chemistry with his team.

Even Tim Ryan questioned Harbaugh's decision to do this but the zone does not want to question this, which is why I am doing so. Yet it is considered dumb to do so.

I wanted the first team to get more reps also. But, I'm not going to rip Harbaugh until the reg season if neccesary. Nolan and Sing didn't get ripped their first preseasons. If I recall, both coaches had BS success in preseason which made the fans more optimistic than anything else. Also, I agree with you that we should have brought in a veteran, but Baalke should get more of that blame than Harbaugh.

Singletary did get flamed for having a fake competition when it was obvious he was going to start Hill. We have seen it with our own eyes and we have seen it fail by two previous regimes. Harbaugh is doing the same fake competition deal and taking away from the chemistry of the offense. He can be questioned because he is repeating history of failed decisions made by 2 defensive minded coaches.

McCown has enough NFL experience to get the weekly install and play just as well as, if not better than Kap. Kap should be 3rd this year to develop, not take starter reps away.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Singletary did get flamed for having a fake competition when it was obvious he was going to start Hill. We have seen it with our own eyes and we have seen it fail by two previous regimes. Harbaugh is doing the same fake competition deal and taking away from the chemistry of the offense. He can be questioned because he is repeating history of failed decisions made by 2 defensive minded coaches.

McCown has enough NFL experience to get the weekly install and play just as well as, if not better than Kap. Kap should be 3rd this year to develop, not take starter reps away.

Was it obvious he was going to start Hill? Honeslty, I don't recall it being that cut and dry. I agree that Harbaugh has made some peculiar decisions, but I think it's too early to do the Harbaugh = Singletary.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Pretty ridiculous to even compare Harbaugh to the previous head coaches. I mean come on, the league was in a fricken lockout. That meant no OTA's and players couldn't even talk to the coaches to get things down. The Niners were often mentioned as a team that would be most affected by the lockout, so why all the overreaction over the teams struggles in the preseason. Harbaugh and the coaching staff as a whole are trying to implement a system while at the same time they are evaluating the talent they have on the team. So yeah, give the guy a break already, hea hasn't even coached a regular season game yet.

So this fake competition for the starting QB that is taking Alex Smith's in game reps to build chemistry with his starters isn't the same mistake previous head coaches got flamed for? The comparison is valid so far. Tell me, why can't one compare their decisions, which have been very similar so far?

Hmmm, I guess I remember differently, but I felt like people wanted qb competition. People were tired of Smith being handed the job every season. And chemistry with the starters? Smith has been here for what, 6 years now and the majority of the offensive players are the same? I think Smith will be just fine so long as the line isn't playing like crap. And it really shouldn't matter who's behind center in regards to the line play. And as for comparison of head coaches, if you think its fair to compare a guy's first month on the job running camp, against another's 2 or 3 years, then that's being pretty inpatient and unrealistic.
Originally posted by sacniner:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Singletary did get flamed for having a fake competition when it was obvious he was going to start Hill. We have seen it with our own eyes and we have seen it fail by two previous regimes. Harbaugh is doing the same fake competition deal and taking away from the chemistry of the offense. He can be questioned because he is repeating history of failed decisions made by 2 defensive minded coaches.

McCown has enough NFL experience to get the weekly install and play just as well as, if not better than Kap. Kap should be 3rd this year to develop, not take starter reps away.

Was it obvious he was going to start Hill? Honeslty, I don't recall it being that cut and dry. I agree that Harbaugh has made some peculiar decisions, but I think it's too early to do the Harbaugh = Singletary.
Yes, it was obvious. From the QB decision made to this point and how pathetic the offense appears to be prepared...that portion can be compared. No one is comparing future actions. There actions, including Nolan, to this point in the preseason, and the result of their actions haven't been much different.
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Pretty ridiculous to even compare Harbaugh to the previous head coaches. I mean come on, the league was in a fricken lockout. That meant no OTA's and players couldn't even talk to the coaches to get things down. The Niners were often mentioned as a team that would be most affected by the lockout, so why all the overreaction over the teams struggles in the preseason. Harbaugh and the coaching staff as a whole are trying to implement a system while at the same time they are evaluating the talent they have on the team. So yeah, give the guy a break already, hea hasn't even coached a regular season game yet.

So this fake competition for the starting QB that is taking Alex Smith's in game reps to build chemistry with his starters isn't the same mistake previous head coaches got flamed for? The comparison is valid so far. Tell me, why can't one compare their decisions, which have been very similar so far?

Hmmm, I guess I remember differently, but I felt like people wanted qb competition. People were tired of Smith being handed the job every season. And chemistry with the starters? Smith has been here for what, 6 years now and the majority of the offensive players are the same? I think Smith will be just fine so long as the line isn't playing like crap. And it really shouldn't matter who's behind center in regards to the line play. And as for comparison of head coaches, if you think its fair to compare a guy's first month on the job running camp, against another's 2 or 3 years, then that's being pretty inpatient and unrealistic.

I'm comparing his 1st month to their 1st months. That's reasonable. You learn from history and he's repeating the actions of two defensive coaches who knew nothing about offense.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Pretty ridiculous to even compare Harbaugh to the previous head coaches. I mean come on, the league was in a fricken lockout. That meant no OTA's and players couldn't even talk to the coaches to get things down. The Niners were often mentioned as a team that would be most affected by the lockout, so why all the overreaction over the teams struggles in the preseason. Harbaugh and the coaching staff as a whole are trying to implement a system while at the same time they are evaluating the talent they have on the team. So yeah, give the guy a break already, hea hasn't even coached a regular season game yet.

So this fake competition for the starting QB that is taking Alex Smith's in game reps to build chemistry with his starters isn't the same mistake previous head coaches got flamed for? The comparison is valid so far. Tell me, why can't one compare their decisions, which have been very similar so far?

Hmmm, I guess I remember differently, but I felt like people wanted qb competition. People were tired of Smith being handed the job every season. And chemistry with the starters? Smith has been here for what, 6 years now and the majority of the offensive players are the same? I think Smith will be just fine so long as the line isn't playing like crap. And it really shouldn't matter who's behind center in regards to the line play. And as for comparison of head coaches, if you think its fair to compare a guy's first month on the job running camp, against another's 2 or 3 years, then that's being pretty inpatient and unrealistic.

I'm comparing his 1st month to their 1st months. That's reasonable. You learn from history and he's repeating the actions of two defensive coaches who knew nothing about offense.

My whole point though is that there wasn't enough time for him to fully evaluate what he has. Harbaugh's first month with his players= 1st preseason game in 2 weeks. Nolan/Singletary's first month with the players = 1st preseason in in 2 months. I don't think that's reasonable. This team and it's coach will get better with time is all I'm saying.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:


The Niners as an organization have forgotten how to win.

Although I didn't go ballistic over the hiring of Baalke, I was disappointed that the Organization couldn't have brought in a guy with no connections to the preceding six-year fiasco. Someone with gravitas, intelligence and standing in the NFL comminity. You've got to be able to speak on equal terms with other GMs, not have to go through that "earn my respect" cycle that new members of the fraternity have to go through. Moreover we know that Baalke is no rocket scientist and is a bit mentally weak (got steam rolled by both Singletary and Harbaugh). However, it all falls back to lack of intelligence and insight of ownership. Specifically Jed York - he's just so weak. That said given all his limitations, Baalke hasn't done so bad. He did bring in the most coveted HC candidate out there.

But it's Harbaugh who to date is raising some real question marks. It's not that his team seems to have regressed. OK . . . it's preseason . . . blah, blah. It's that he seems to be out of it. Not in touch with the whole team psychology. Right now, the team doesn't know "winning": You don't bring back a guy who has been synonymous with the whole "loser" label as the trigger guy and expect the team to transform it's personality. You try to surround your players with leaders who have won; people who have and actually have the winning swagger. Most importantly at the trigger position. And then bluild on that. The roster does have some talent. The team had the chance to do it and chose not to. You can say all the bad stuff you want about Crabtree, but that was the impetus behind his remarks, when he questioned Smiths return. Right now the team has that WTF look about them and they're looking for winning leadership.

Harbaugh needs to pull something out of his a$$, and fast. Or he's going to lose this team. In that respect Harbaugh = Singletary.

JH is smarter (hopefully). Let's hope that he gets it done.


While I agree with most of your post, selling the Niners' job to Harbaugh would be like me selling the idea of dating a Victoria's Secret to the average board member. Harbaugh wanted to stay local, and wanted a head coaching job in the NFL. There was only one fit, the Niners.

As I have been saying for some time now, it is amateur hour in 49ers headquarters, and the chaos surrounding the team, and colossal list of gaffs this have been part of this offseason shows that change is needed at the top.

Let's stop playing around with guys who don't know what they are doing, and bring in some guys who do. Not a difficult proposition.
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by samoan49er:
Pretty ridiculous to even compare Harbaugh to the previous head coaches. I mean come on, the league was in a fricken lockout. That meant no OTA's and players couldn't even talk to the coaches to get things down. The Niners were often mentioned as a team that would be most affected by the lockout, so why all the overreaction over the teams struggles in the preseason. Harbaugh and the coaching staff as a whole are trying to implement a system while at the same time they are evaluating the talent they have on the team. So yeah, give the guy a break already, hea hasn't even coached a regular season game yet.

So this fake competition for the starting QB that is taking Alex Smith's in game reps to build chemistry with his starters isn't the same mistake previous head coaches got flamed for? The comparison is valid so far. Tell me, why can't one compare their decisions, which have been very similar so far?

Hmmm, I guess I remember differently, but I felt like people wanted qb competition. People were tired of Smith being handed the job every season. And chemistry with the starters? Smith has been here for what, 6 years now and the majority of the offensive players are the same? I think Smith will be just fine so long as the line isn't playing like crap. And it really shouldn't matter who's behind center in regards to the line play. And as for comparison of head coaches, if you think its fair to compare a guy's first month on the job running camp, against another's 2 or 3 years, then that's being pretty inpatient and unrealistic.

I'm comparing his 1st month to their 1st months. That's reasonable. You learn from history and he's repeating the actions of two defensive coaches who knew nothing about offense.

My whole point though is that there wasn't enough time for him to fully evaluate what he has. Harbaugh's first month with his players= 1st preseason game in 2 weeks. Nolan/Singletary's first month with the players = 1st preseason in in 2 months. I don't think that's reasonable. This team and it's coach will get better with time is all I'm saying.

There is plenty of game film on Alex Smith to observe that he is still a more viable starter than a Pistol Offense 2nd rounder. There's no need to take away valuable gameday reps from Alex Smith, especially considering the bold. There is no need to evaluate whether or not Kaep needs to be cut or kept on the team. His roster spot is locked. The real need was a veteran QB and I'm sure McCown can come in any week, learn the install and play better than Kaep because that was the excuse Harbaugh used in giving Kap more playing time. Hell, we brought in Wenke and I'm sure he would look as good if not better than a Pistol offense rookie. It's not rocket science, which was what we were saying about the exact same decision Dinglebary and Nowin were having trouble with.

What did we learn from Dinglebary and Nowin?

1. A fake QB competion is not good.
2. Taking away reps from the starting QB when learning a new offense is not good.
3. Taking away playing time with one group to build chemistry is not good.
4. Thinking about giving a college gimick offense QB regular season playing time is not good.

Harbaugh seems to agree with Nowin and Dinglebary so far.

But you guys shouldn't be concerned because our offense will magically gel in Game 1.
[ Edited by Joecool on Aug 30, 2011 at 10:54 AM ]