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Ray McDonald wants to be a starter, why the hell shouldn't he be?

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Nothing wrong with that attitude, but the real concern is how he will hold up at DE in a 3-4 on running downs. that's why he seemed to play more on passing downs. I just think he's in the wrong scheme. But the coaching staff isn't gonna have time to decide if he's starting with this shortened off season. Him Soap, and Smith doesn't make for a good run stopping 3-4 d line imo. Can't be mad at a guy b/c he just wants to play. I'd like to keep him.

I'd have a problem if that wasn't his attitude. A player should always be hungry for the next tier. The knocks on him is against the run and his health. a 3-4 DE isn't a primary pass rusher...he's a space eater. he opens things up for the LBs. I wonder if Ray wouldn't do better on a 4-3 team. That said, I hope we keep him.

The bolded isn't always the case. It depends on the scheme as to how each DL is utilized. All roles are not the same on each 3-4 scheme. Unless Ray is much stronger on initial contact than he was, we would be left with all three of our DL as 1-gappers. Maybe that can work in today's NFL. Last year, we had Justin and Aubrayo doing more 1-gapping while Sop was more of our space-eating plugger. I am not sure if things would work well if all 3 DL are 1-gapping. Maybe Sopo would then be more of the plugger inside while both DEs 1-gap.

Exactly. It just concerns me that with this shortened off season how much time will the coaching staff get to truly evaluate the players and figure how to use them properly.
He will start once Franklin leaves.... New DC, New mentality.

You know he wasn't gonna beat out J. Smith, and Manusky preferred to have another NT sized DE in Soap rather than a "mirror-image" of Smith like he always preached in McDonald. Soap was great at occupying blockers but he was never gonna terrorize the backfield like Smith. Ray has that capability.

Looking at our roster, we will need a DE when Soap moves over to NT and Ray would be a seemless transition. That will allow Tukuafu to get another year of understudying in and RJF can keep learning the NT position. We will probably bring in a FA for depth hand selected by our new DC.
Sign him then start him McDonald - Soap - Smith
Originally posted by 5280High:
He will start once Franklin leaves.... New DC, New mentality.

You know he wasn't gonna beat out J. Smith, and Manusky preferred to have another NT sized DE in Soap rather than a "mirror-image" of Smith like he always preached in McDonald. Soap was great at occupying blockers but he was never gonna terrorize the backfield like Smith. Ray has that capability.

Looking at our roster, we will need a DE when Soap moves over to NT and Ray would be a seemless transition. That will allow Tukuafu to get another year of understudying in and RJF can keep learning the NT position. We will probably bring in a FA for depth hand selected by our new DC.

Sounds like we're all on the same page:

1. No idea why the hell this guy hasn't been starting at DE in place of Soap.
2. Let Franklin walk and start Smith, Soap and RayMc.

I really really like the idea of putting Soap at NT because he's really only good for occupying blockers and that's a NT's primary responsibility.

Smith and McDonald rushing the edges could be lethal!
I mean...if we dont resign Franklin and Soap moves inside...then yea...but i wouldnt start him at end over Soap if we have a good NT.

Hes a good situational pass rusher for a 3-4 end.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Nothing wrong with that attitude, but the real concern is how he will hold up at DE in a 3-4 on running downs. that's why he seemed to play more on passing downs. I just think he's in the wrong scheme. But the coaching staff isn't gonna have time to decide if he's starting with this shortened off season. Him Soap, and Smith doesn't make for a good run stopping 3-4 d line imo. Can't be mad at a guy b/c he just wants to play. I'd like to keep him.

I'd have a problem if that wasn't his attitude. A player should always be hungry for the next tier. The knocks on him is against the run and his health. a 3-4 DE isn't a primary pass rusher...he's a space eater. he opens things up for the LBs. I wonder if Ray wouldn't do better on a 4-3 team. That said, I hope we keep him.

The bolded isn't always the case. It depends on the scheme as to how each DL is utilized. All roles are not the same on each 3-4 scheme. Unless Ray is much stronger on initial contact than he was, we would be left with all three of our DL as 1-gappers. Maybe that can work in today's NFL. Last year, we had Justin and Aubrayo doing more 1-gapping while Sop was more of our space-eating plugger. I am not sure if things would work well if all 3 DL are 1-gapping. Maybe Sopo would then be more of the plugger inside while both DEs 1-gap.

Exactly. It just concerns me that with this shortened off season how much time will the coaching staff get to truly evaluate the players and figure how to use them properly.

At least they'll have plenty of time to pour through the film. And with the extra time available, they should have a more concise and ordered training camp. But that's not saying much as it doesn't have to blow anyone away to be better than Sing's training camp.
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they better resign RayMac. i, too, would rather see ManLaw walk before him.
Member Milestone: This is post number 1,000 for NinerPrideinNJ.
Originally posted by boast:
they better resign RayMac. i, too, would rather see ManLaw walk before him.

Agreed. Lawson is so overrated it's unbelievable.

Post 1,000

Only took me like 4 or 5 years.
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/06/ray-mcdonald-i.html

I forgot to include the link and I also forgot to mention the handful of blocked kicks he's had (ie: vs. Giants in '08).

What makes me laugh about this team is that one of the obvious flaws is that they can't rush the passer, yet a player like this proves he can do so effectively and they allow him to waste away sitting a majority of the game.

The one that stands out more to me is the jump he got on the Vikings O-line when he blocked the FG in '09.
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/06/ray-mcdonald-i.html

I forgot to include the link and I also forgot to mention the handful of blocked kicks he's had (ie: vs. Giants in '08).

What makes me laugh about this team is that one of the obvious flaws is that they can't rush the passer, yet a player like this proves he can do so effectively and they allow him to waste away sitting a majority of the game.

The one that stands out more to me is the jump he got on the Vikings O-line when he blocked the FG in '09.

I remember that too. He definitely has 'game-changing' plays. Hopefully the front office gets him signed to a starter deal (like Sopoaga's a few years back).
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/06/ray-mcdonald-i.html

I forgot to include the link and I also forgot to mention the handful of blocked kicks he's had (ie: vs. Giants in '08).

What makes me laugh about this team is that one of the obvious flaws is that they can't rush the passer, yet a player like this proves he can do so effectively and they allow him to waste away sitting a majority of the game.

Consider the DC's in Nolan/Manusky! These guys traded in play-makers for great practice players. Both managed to discard pass rushers from the team at record speeds and focus on funneling a defense to Patrick Willis and ultimately, became the most vanilla 3-4 defense of all time. We could go on ALL day of the personnel and scheme/philosophy examples to support this too.
Originally posted by Eastcoast49er:
Sign him then start him McDonald - Soap - Smith

Yep. That line does not anger me, particularly if RJF rotates in.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Nothing wrong with that attitude, but the real concern is how he will hold up at DE in a 3-4 on running downs. that's why he seemed to play more on passing downs. I just think he's in the wrong scheme. But the coaching staff isn't gonna have time to decide if he's starting with this shortened off season. Him Soap, and Smith doesn't make for a good run stopping 3-4 d line imo. Can't be mad at a guy b/c he just wants to play. I'd like to keep him.

I'd have a problem if that wasn't his attitude. A player should always be hungry for the next tier. The knocks on him is against the run and his health. a 3-4 DE isn't a primary pass rusher...he's a space eater. he opens things up for the LBs. I wonder if Ray wouldn't do better on a 4-3 team. That said, I hope we keep him.

The bolded isn't always the case. It depends on the scheme as to how each DL is utilized. All roles are not the same on each 3-4 scheme. Unless Ray is much stronger on initial contact than he was, we would be left with all three of our DL as 1-gappers. Maybe that can work in today's NFL. Last year, we had Justin and Aubrayo doing more 1-gapping while Sop was more of our space-eating plugger. I am not sure if things would work well if all 3 DL are 1-gapping. Maybe Sopo would then be more of the plugger inside while both DEs 1-gap.

Excellent point and I think you nailed it perfectly...very accurate point!
A lot of teams use a rotation based scheme when it comes to the defensive line. The niners have done it since Walsh's days, although certain players stay in more often than others. They probably 1) wanted to save him for pass rushing downs and not wear him out 2) He has had health issues.
I think that Ray should start. Lawson should be the key to protecting him in the run game. Lawson is better against the run and Ray is better rushing the passer. Resigning Lawson and Ray makes that side of the defensive line even with the other. Lawson outside of Ray, Aldon outside of Smith. Looks pretty good to me!!