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Alex Smith the starter next year?

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i dont think it really matters all that much. The QB's that Harbaugh was able to get the best out of seemed like they really sucked before him. Then, whether one year or more, each improved drastically. Even gave those individuals Draft potential because of their success under him.

So I look at Alex the same way.

If anyone read my posts for this year, and years prior, one main sentence has been constant. Even when arguing with others and thats, " Give me a coach, that knows how to adjust on a whim if all things fall apart. And a coach that CAN get the best potential out of every player on the field. Only then can you really see how good or bad a player can be.".

So I not only relate that to Alex, but to the WR's, O-line, defense, etc. I havent closed the door on any player on our team because I'm not sure if every player has been in position for their talents or lack there of to be maximized.

If a person says that a kid has the potential to be great, you wont ever know until he's given the right oppourtunity to do so. With a supporting cast that knows how to put him in the right spot, to see if he will make the correct or wrong decision.

I dont care if it's Martz's offense, the WCO, or any other offense. A good/great coach as Harbaugh said, knows how to get the best out of every player on the team.

We finally have that in coach. So let me see what any player on our squad, even Alex can do with a coach that has those talents to maximize all 53 players on the roster's full potential.

We havent had an offensive minded HC in almost 8 years. Now that we do, lets not jump quickly either way, and see what happens.

All this talk of Smith returning, when we dont know anything yet.

Harbaugh developed players in COLLEGE! That's what College is for.

The NFL is a completely different beast. Seems like Harbaugh is getting all this NFL props when he hasn't coached a single down in the league.
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.

The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i dont think it really matters all that much. The QB's that Harbaugh was able to get the best out of seemed like they really sucked before him. Then, whether one year or more, each improved drastically. Even gave those individuals Draft potential because of their success under him.

So I look at Alex the same way.

If anyone read my posts for this year, and years prior, one main sentence has been constant. Even when arguing with others and thats, " Give me a coach, that knows how to adjust on a whim if all things fall apart. And a coach that CAN get the best potential out of every player on the field. Only then can you really see how good or bad a player can be.".

So I not only relate that to Alex, but to the WR's, O-line, defense, etc. I havent closed the door on any player on our team because I'm not sure if every player has been in position for their talents or lack there of to be maximized.

If a person says that a kid has the potential to be great, you wont ever know until he's given the right oppourtunity to do so. With a supporting cast that knows how to put him in the right spot, to see if he will make the correct or wrong decision.

I dont care if it's Martz's offense, the WCO, or any other offense. A good/great coach as Harbaugh said, knows how to get the best out of every player on the team.

We finally have that in coach. So let me see what any player on our squad, even Alex can do with a coach that has those talents to maximize all 53 players on the roster's full potential.

We havent had an offensive minded HC in almost 8 years. Now that we do, lets not jump quickly either way, and see what happens.

All this talk of Smith returning, when we dont know anything yet.

Harbaugh developed players in COLLEGE! That's what College is for.

The NFL is a completely different beast. Seems like Harbaugh is getting all this NFL props when he hasn't coached a single down in the league.

he was a QB coach for the raiders for 2 years, so yes he has coached in the league before
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Oh... and if Orton made Brandon Lloyd (did you ever watch some of the incredible catches that Lloyd made last year? I did because Orton was on my fantasy team) then shouldn't you say that Smith made Vernon Davis? Again basically you have your opinion and you aren't letting any facts get in the way of that opinion.
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.

I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.

Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.
Originally posted by RYPTOUT:

WHAT HAPPENED! DAMN IT!... DOH!...HAHAHA...
From Mike Sando

New San Francisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh has repeatedly offered praise for quarterback Alex Smith.

The two have met several times, leaving the rest of us to focus on whether bringing back Smith could make sense for the 49ers heading into an uncertain offseason. We've spent less energy discussing whether returning to the 49ers would make sense for Smith.

Alex Smith could benefit from having an offensive-minded head coach.
Getting a fresh start in a new place could help Smith shake the expectations that arguably dragged him down as the first player chosen in the 2005 NFL draft. But the grass is not always greener someplace else and there's a decent chance San Francisco could stand as Smith's best option, as I noted in response to a New Zealand-based 49ers fan, Mike, during a recent Facebook exchange.

Smith might be unlikely to find another situation featuring:

* A sharp offensive-minded head coach. Smith's previous head coaches, Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary, had defensive backgrounds. Both had their strengths, but neither handled quarterback situations very well. Smith questioned Nolan's motives and raised concerns about Singletary's demeanor during games. Harbaugh understands NFL quarterbacks. He was one, after all.

* Players Smith knows and likes. Vernon Davis and others have consistently backed Smith. Smith has friends on the team.

* Enough talent on the roster to be competitive. The 49ers are starting over from a coaching standpoint, but they have more talent than the typical rebuilding team. They opened the 2010 season with the youngest starting offense in the league, a unit featuring multiple recent first-round draft choices (Joe Staley, Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis, Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree and Smith).

* A division as unsettled as the NFC West. The 49ers were 6-10 last season and still finished only one game out of first place.

* An unsettled quarterback situation. If Smith signed right now, he would be the best quarterback on the roster and the favorite to start. There's no guarantee the 49ers will land a player clearly more talented before the regular season.


Smith will have to consider options elsewhere, of course, and the 49ers will look to upgrade. But these specific criteria could, in the end, trump the overriding notion that a fresh start would be best no matter what.
Smith had by far the best red zone stats from any qb in the NFL: this shows that he can make quick decisions in a short field. I wonder if that can translate to a more WCO type of offensive gameplan? At this point with the CBA situation, it looks like we may find out
Originally posted by Method:
Smith had by far the best red zone stats from any qb in the NFL: this shows that he can make quick decisions in a short field. I wonder if that can translate to a more WCO type of offensive gameplan? At this point with the CBA situation, it looks like we may find out

We drafted Alex to play in WCO system(McCarthy was the OC at the time)
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Method:
Smith had by far the best red zone stats from any qb in the NFL: this shows that he can make quick decisions in a short field. I wonder if that can translate to a more WCO type of offensive gameplan? At this point with the CBA situation, it looks like we may find out

We drafted Alex to play in WCO system(McCarthy was the OC at the time)

Smith was way over his head at that point, maybe the worst rookie qb season ever, lol. But yes I knew that.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
I don't think my TV can take another year of Alex Smith...



Seriously though, if Alex starts, there is no way I'm renewing my NFL Sunday ticket. I'm sick of paying so much to watch our team lose year after year...

Exactly. It's just better to move on and start over. However, if the CBA doesn't get resolved, then I obviously want him back. But if there is a FA period in the next couple months, I'd like the team to look outside the roster for our QB.

I just don't think he's a good fit for the WCO and would rather see any QB with an upside get the reps or a vet that already knows the system start. Most of us know Alex isn't the answer. If we brought him back, it would be for only one season; and we all know how well Alex does in his first, or even second, season of a new system.

There are always a few, on the decline, veteran QBs available each year. I'm sure we could find a much better stopgap WCO QB as we develop a rookie for the future...
Who? What would they cost?

We've been through this examination ad nauseum and there are just no reasonable options out there. Without sacrificing a 1st round draft pick, or at the very best, the #45 overall pick (2nd round) there just aren't any decent QBs available.

Does anyone really think Carson Palmer is worth either of those picks? Orton? Kolb?

Johnson might be available, but at what price?

??????

Who would have thought Troy Smith would have been cut last year????? How about all the Vet QB trades? Mcnabb, Rosenfels, etc...

The point is that a handful of QB's that are not currently being talked about in trade circles will be traded or cut or somehow become available. What you have been examining "ad nauseum" is the players that are known to be available or rumored about. Other options will present themselves in time...

Now, I'd rather go with a guy that knows the WCO on the decline than a guy who sucks at picking up a new season for our one year stop gap QB... That would be McNabb or maybe even Bulger or some other surprise WCO QB cut or trade.

Smith = Fail and I want the Niners to Win!!!
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.

Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.

Mind = blown

Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.

Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.

Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.

Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.

The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.

The reality is that an unknown, at this point, is better than the known perception of Alex. What that means is that everyone is so fed up with Alex, that we are willing to take a slightly worse player (not saying Kolb is better or worse here) that is an unknown over our preconceived notions of Alex being a failure.

Every incompletion, every INT, every overthrow/off target pass will be over analysed with Alex because under performing has been his norm. With Kolb, a couple of off target passes, or int's will be acceptable because we will still have hope that this is not his norm. This will allow time for Kolb to develop which is something our fan base is not willing to give Alex any more of...
Originally posted by Method:
Smith had by far the best red zone stats from any qb in the NFL: this shows that he can make quick decisions in a short field. I wonder if that can translate to a more WCO type of offensive gameplan? At this point with the CBA situation, it looks like we may find out

Alex was one of the worst in 1st % which shows that he cannot make quick decisions in a short field. Who cares if he had good redzone stats if he made it there far fewer times than the average NFL QB?
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by Method:
Smith had by far the best red zone stats from any qb in the NFL: this shows that he can make quick decisions in a short field. I wonder if that can translate to a more WCO type of offensive gameplan? At this point with the CBA situation, it looks like we may find out

We drafted Alex to play in WCO system(McCarthy was the OC at the time)

Actually it was said that Nolan did not care for Rodgers attitude, not bad mind you, but Rodgers is more likely to question and not back down from Nolan where as Alex is a more yes sir type. It shows when Alex and Rodgers are interviewed, there personalities are opposite.

Also the dreaded word of more upside with Alex. Well remember Manning and Leaf, instead we took leaf-more upside. Greenbay got Rodgers.
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
I don't think my TV can take another year of Alex Smith...



Seriously though, if Alex starts, there is no way I'm renewing my NFL Sunday ticket. I'm sick of paying so much to watch our team lose year after year...

Exactly. It's just better to move on and start over. However, if the CBA doesn't get resolved, then I obviously want him back. But if there is a FA period in the next couple months, I'd like the team to look outside the roster for our QB.

I just don't think he's a good fit for the WCO and would rather see any QB with an upside get the reps or a vet that already knows the system start. Most of us know Alex isn't the answer. If we brought him back, it would be for only one season; and we all know how well Alex does in his first, or even second, season of a new system.

There are always a few, on the decline, veteran QBs available each year. I'm sure we could find a much better stopgap WCO QB as we develop a rookie for the future...
Who? What would they cost?

We've been through this examination ad nauseum and there are just no reasonable options out there. Without sacrificing a 1st round draft pick, or at the very best, the #45 overall pick (2nd round) there just aren't any decent QBs available.

Does anyone really think Carson Palmer is worth either of those picks? Orton? Kolb?

Johnson might be available, but at what price?

??????

Who would have thought Troy Smith would have been cut last year????? How about all the Vet QB trades? Mcnabb, Rosenfels, etc...

The point is that a handful of QB's that are not currently being talked about in trade circles will be traded or cut or somehow become available. What you have been examining "ad nauseum" is the players that are known to be available or rumored about. Other options will present themselves in time...

Now, I'd rather go with a guy that knows the WCO on the decline than a guy who sucks at picking up a new season for our one year stop gap QB... That would be McNabb or maybe even Bulger or some other surprise WCO QB cut or trade.

Smith = Fail and I want the Niners to Win!!!
I don't see any "vet" QBs out there, apart from Orton, who are worth more than a 4th...and I am not very crazy about starting the season with a 4th round draft pick level guy.

As to the issue of "picking up the offense," that has been pretty well debunked here. If Smith could pick up the Martz offense in one off-season I'm pretty sure he would have no trouble recalling what he learned from McCarthy and adding in Harbaugh's tweaks.
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