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Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Get me a REAL proven vet QB like a Carson Palmer or Kyle Orton
shoot ill take Kevin Kolb right now over this pampered little b*tch
GTFO OUT ALEXIS!!!
PLEASE DONT CONSIDER COMING BACK!!!!!
Originally posted by D_Niner:Originally posted by 1swift:Originally posted by bigmike55:Originally posted by excelsior:
The common attitude that I get from most Alex critics is to get rid of him and get someone better. That sounds so simple on the surface. But it bespeaks a failure to appreciate how difficult it is to play QB in the NFL. It is the most difficult position to play and that is why there are so few really good ones.
Consider all of the QBs starting for about 200 major college teams. We have about 80 QBs on 32 NFL rosters. Assuming a 10 year career span, that is only 8 QB rookies going into the NFL each year. Yet, of the 32 teams, there are probably 10 that you would call "elite," the kind a 49er fan demands guide his team in the years to come. On average, that represents only 1 QB coming out of college each year. There may be a few more on rosters that someday will be considered "elite" but history suggests that it isn't many.
Some claim Alex is the worst QB in the NFL, which is a laughable claim. Others, however, complain that he is only average, which he may be, but some teams would love to have just an average QB at the moment.
Some demand that we trade for Kolb, Orton, Palmer, etc. But do not forget that there a at least 10 other teams looking to upgrade their QB and the competition for these guys will be intense and their price will be inflated.
The upshot of this discussion is that I think Harbaugh realizes this as well as any; after all he struggled to be a quality QB himself. He knows that most teams must find a way to win with a QB who is not elite.
Harbaugh probably realizes that Alex is the best available for the moment. It is not certain that Orton, Kolb, Palmer are better than him, and they will cost in valuable draft choices will be excessive, while Alex will not cost them any d/c. So until his critics can point out a truly intelligent alternative path, they should hold their tongues.
Alex Smith has been garbage for his entire career. Anyone is better than him.
Anyone? Really?
This is my only issue with the Alex Smith hate...Some haters, just as some supporters, are so blind that they'd really think ANYTHING is better than alex smith...Case and point: Troy Smith...to me Troy smith was just terrible, far worse than Alex at his worst...yet he has some feverish support just for the fact that he's not alex
David Carr? Nate? just Anyone, really? thats not the answer
Come on now, Troy didn't know enough of the playbook to be fairly evaluated; but even with his limited knowledge, he directed some nice comebacks and had a couple good games.
With as many excuses people make for Alex, I cant understand why they cannot see a simple fact like knowing the playbook helps a QB execute the O.
Originally posted by Nes49:Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Get me a REAL proven vet QB like a Carson Palmer or Kyle Orton
shoot ill take Kevin Kolb right now over this pampered little b*tch
GTFO OUT ALEXIS!!!
PLEASE DONT CONSIDER COMING BACK!!!!!
Alexis is hot....the hell's wrong with U?
Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:Originally posted by Nes49:Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Get me a REAL proven vet QB like a Carson Palmer or Kyle Orton
shoot ill take Kevin Kolb right now over this pampered little b*tch
GTFO OUT ALEXIS!!!
PLEASE DONT CONSIDER COMING BACK!!!!!
Alexis is hot....the hell's wrong with U?
wrong alexis
im talkin bout this one........
Imma go with whoever Harbaugh chooses.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.
I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.
Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.
nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.
Compared to:
Brady: 109.8
Manning:105.5
Kolb: 98.2
Rogers: 108.5
Orton: 91.5
McNabb: 99.7
Originally posted by Snider8706:Originally posted by dtg_9er:Originally posted by WildBill:
When bringing up numbers and stats, consider this, Alex only did decent against low ball competition, and struggled big time against playoff teams. As for the claim someone made about best QB in the redzone-please post the numbers and links before I believe that. Fact is- he didn't get into the red zone that much, else the fans wouldn't be complaining about offense production.
I will say this, Alex will if he comes back, stiffen if things don't go well and people get on his case. I have no doubt that JH can make Alex look better because of his schemes, however, he will never become a QB you can ride the shoulders on. that is my whole point. I have watch games where he misses open receivers more than he should.
Sorry, but Harbaugh's stance and talks is just a man covering his bases and the team, if they are smart, playing the game of deception that will only intensify as the draft looms closer.
nfl.com Situational Stats. Smith inside the 20 QB rating of 118.8.
Compared to:
Brady: 109.8
Manning:105.5
Kolb: 98.2
Rogers: 108.5
Orton: 91.5
McNabb: 99.7
wow that automatically proves he's better than everyone on that list.
maybe if we played on a 40 yard field he would be awesome.
Originally posted by JustMike:
Troy smith would be a better pick between the smiths. Just look what he did last year when he came in. Did he struggle? I thing anyone would, but he was able to pick up a few wins with us. Alex smith will put up ok numbers but how many games will he win us. His best season we went 5 - 5. I expect better than that from a qb that is "the best qb in the division" as some have indicated.
Originally posted by JBatta49erfansince81:
If Harbaugh thinks he is going to win with Alex Smith then maybe he isn't as great a coaching option as we all hoped.
Originally posted by valrod33:Originally posted by JayBee:Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i dont think it really matters all that much. The QB's that Harbaugh was able to get the best out of seemed like they really sucked before him. Then, whether one year or more, each improved drastically. Even gave those individuals Draft potential because of their success under him.
So I look at Alex the same way.
If anyone read my posts for this year, and years prior, one main sentence has been constant. Even when arguing with others and thats, " Give me a coach, that knows how to adjust on a whim if all things fall apart. And a coach that CAN get the best potential out of every player on the field. Only then can you really see how good or bad a player can be.".
So I not only relate that to Alex, but to the WR's, O-line, defense, etc. I havent closed the door on any player on our team because I'm not sure if every player has been in position for their talents or lack there of to be maximized.
If a person says that a kid has the potential to be great, you wont ever know until he's given the right oppourtunity to do so. With a supporting cast that knows how to put him in the right spot, to see if he will make the correct or wrong decision.
I dont care if it's Martz's offense, the WCO, or any other offense. A good/great coach as Harbaugh said, knows how to get the best out of every player on the team.
We finally have that in coach. So let me see what any player on our squad, even Alex can do with a coach that has those talents to maximize all 53 players on the roster's full potential.
We havent had an offensive minded HC in almost 8 years. Now that we do, lets not jump quickly either way, and see what happens.
All this talk of Smith returning, when we dont know anything yet.
Harbaugh developed players in COLLEGE! That's what College is for.
The NFL is a completely different beast. Seems like Harbaugh is getting all this NFL props when he hasn't coached a single down in the league.
he was a QB coach for the raiders for 2 years, so yes he has coached in the league before
Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by JustMike:
Troy smith would be a better pick between the smiths. Just look what he did last year when he came in. Did he struggle? I thing anyone would, but he was able to pick up a few wins with us. Alex smith will put up ok numbers but how many games will he win us. His best season we went 5 - 5. I expect better than that from a qb that is "the best qb in the division" as some have indicated.
Troy could not move the ball against the Bucs and they are not even that good. He was shut down once teams figured out that if you keep him in the pocket, he cannot function.
Originally posted by dtcomposer:Originally posted by JayBee:Originally posted by pd24:Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.
Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.
Mind = blown
Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.
Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.
Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.
Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.
The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.
Originally posted by JayBee:Originally posted by dtcomposer:Originally posted by JayBee:Originally posted by pd24:Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.
Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.
Mind = blown
Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.
Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.
Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.
Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.
The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.
How else am I supposed to compare them? I'm not going to compare a guy with 20 games under his belt with a guy who's played 60. The only fair comparison is where they were their first 20 games. Kolb is far ahead. It doesn't matter how awful Alex's supporting cast was, he was NOT accurate and he still isn't accurate. You really think he'd be connecting on bombs to Deshaun?
Kolb reminds me of Alex if he went to Green Bay. He plays it safe and doesn't take as many chances. However, he's still pretty raw and can be developed. He looked better in College than Alex and I'd much rather give him a shot than Alex. I've seen enough of Alex to know I'm not interested in continuing with him. I've seen enough of Kolb to think he may be a viable option.
Originally posted by dtcomposer:Originally posted by JayBee:Originally posted by dtcomposer:Originally posted by JayBee:Originally posted by pd24:Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Kolb, IMO more upside. We pretty much now what Orton can do with a full season.
Alex Smith is better or on par with both Kolb and Orton. Kolb is the same age as Alex and has been groomed by coaches that know how to bring along QB's. Orton is 28 and didn't really get good until he was 27 or 28 playing under a coach who is good with QB's. Smith's numbers over the last 2 years have been on par or better than both Kolb and Orton. I think under Harbaugh he can get better. We also have to look at the fact that Smith was the best redzone QB in the NFL last year.
Mind = blown
Orton's numbers are far better than Alex's. He has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio in the last 2 years and a QB rating 5 or so points higher. He also turned Brandon Lloyd (the guy who people called a bum) into a pro-bowler. Orton is far better than Alex.
Statistically Alex is better. That Dallas game at the end of the year really hurt Kolb's numbers whereas, Alex's game against the Cards really helped his numbers. But statistically, yes, Alex (with 60 games under his belt) had better numbers than Kolb (20 games experience). Thing is, I still think Kolb is better than Alex. He's more accurate, throws a far better deep ball, has better mechanics, footwork and can still be developed. The fact that he threw for over 300 yards and 3 touchdowns against Atlanta shows me that there's something there. Then throwing for almost 400 against the SB champions the year before was impressive. Alex has never done this.
Anyways, you can make the argument that Alex is better when you look at their stats. But, if you compare them fairly. If you look at Alex's/Kolb's first 20 games. Who was better? I'd rather roll with Kolb, just wouldn't give up much for him as I don't think he's all that good.
Come on man are you comparing the surrounding cast of Kolb and Alex Smith from their first 20 games? Or even this years cast. Let's be real. Kolb hasn't shown that he is better than Alex Smith. He has had some good games and alot of bad ones. You don't like Alex as much because you see his weaknesses every week whereas Kolb's weaknesses are sitting on the bench. It is the classic backup QB siyndrome.
The reality is that Kolb might be better than Smith, but there is a real possibility that Kolb may be worse. If you can't look fairly at the mitigating factors in Smith's tenure with the 49ers then you aren't being reasonable or fair.
How else am I supposed to compare them? I'm not going to compare a guy with 20 games under his belt with a guy who's played 60. The only fair comparison is where they were their first 20 games. Kolb is far ahead. It doesn't matter how awful Alex's supporting cast was, he was NOT accurate and he still isn't accurate. You really think he'd be connecting on bombs to Deshaun?
Kolb reminds me of Alex if he went to Green Bay. He plays it safe and doesn't take as many chances. However, he's still pretty raw and can be developed. He looked better in College than Alex and I'd much rather give him a shot than Alex. I've seen enough of Alex to know I'm not interested in continuing with him. I've seen enough of Kolb to think he may be a viable option.
I don't believe that you have seen Kolb very much but I do believe that you have seen Alex plenty. Kolb has not shown anything. I watched almost every eagles game this year. It doesn't matter anyway.
And you are wrong about the comparison but I am sick of arguing with people who can't just lay all the chips on the table and call it how it is. I'm not trying to win some argument. All I would like to see is an evaluation that is not coming from an emotional standpoint. Take all the factors in to account fairly, and the only reason you want Kolb is because he is not Alex Smith. that is fine. I totally understand the sentiment, but don't try to prove that Kolb is better by his play. He certainly hasn't shown that at all with a much better situation.