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What Veteran QB will Harbaugh get and why?

What Veteran QB will Harbaugh get and why?

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.

According to him, Alex Smith is a great QB and everyone else on this team sucks and is holding him back.
Come on Leathaface and niner4life, show some maturity. You are sounding like petulent juveniles.

dj43 is a very observant, insightful poster, in fact one of the best. Just because you do not agree with him, you should not characature his points. You just demean yourself.
Originally posted by pigskin:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by pigskin:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

How did Clark and Solomon do before Montana played?

...

Exactly!

Actually, Freddie had pretty much the same game in Miami before coming to the 9ers. His best years were with the 9ers in 79 and 81. 1979 was before Montana became a starter. As far as Dwight Clark is concerned he came to the 9ers with Montana in 1979, so they grew up together as football players.

Edit: In 1979 DeBerg was Solomon's QB and in Miami he had a guy named Griese.

My point still stands. Why make Clark and Solomon into something special when they would not be without Montana?

Freddie was just OK and at in his last legs. I would say he had Montana, and not the other way around.

Clark was a slow footed possession receiver. Crab is a rocket compared to him. I am not saying he was not a good one, but again, Walsh and Montana were the main reason he did what he did. Look at how much better the next group of WRs did once he was done. John Taylor may be a better receiver, but got overshadowed by the great Jerry Rice.

VD, Crab and Morgan are a much better group than Clark and Solomon to me. Just gimme Walsh 2 and Montana 2!
Something tells me you were too young to have seen Clark and Solomon play in '81.

Clark was not a "slow-footed possession receiver." Prior to his knee injury he had above average speed. His role was to be the tough guy to get the yards over the middle because his was big and strong, AND he was very good at reading defenses. He and Montana had a very good understanding between them. Joe knew he could trust Dwight to be where he needed to be and that Clark would use his body well to protect the pass and the ball.

Solomon in his last year with the team was faster than anyone now. Ultimately he was too small to play in the system and was replaced.

Until Rice arrived, the 49er offense relied very much on the system, not the players. Yes, Montana was very good at executing it but the league had not even begun to catch up. Buddy Ryan thought he had it figured out but the 49ers went into Chicago and spanked him and his 46 on a bitterly cold day when no one thought anybody could throw the ball.

There was a lot more to those teams than just Joe.
Originally posted by excelsior:
Come on Leathaface and niner4life, show some maturity. You are sounding like petulent juveniles.

dj43 is a very observant, insightful poster, in fact one of the best. Just because you do not agree with him, you should not characature his points. You just demean yourself.

. We've both had many discussions with dj43. Just because you agree with him doesn't make any counterarguments a sign of "immaturity".

Funny thing is, it's not a caricature at all...that is exactly what he's saying even if he won't admit it.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pigskin:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by pigskin:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

How did Clark and Solomon do before Montana played?

...

Exactly!

Actually, Freddie had pretty much the same game in Miami before coming to the 9ers. His best years were with the 9ers in 79 and 81. 1979 was before Montana became a starter. As far as Dwight Clark is concerned he came to the 9ers with Montana in 1979, so they grew up together as football players.

Edit: In 1979 DeBerg was Solomon's QB and in Miami he had a guy named Griese.

My point still stands. Why make Clark and Solomon into something special when they would not be without Montana?

Freddie was just OK and at in his last legs. I would say he had Montana, and not the other way around.

Clark was a slow footed possession receiver. Crab is a rocket compared to him. I am not saying he was not a good one, but again, Walsh and Montana were the main reason he did what he did. Look at how much better the next group of WRs did once he was done. John Taylor may be a better receiver, but got overshadowed by the great Jerry Rice.

VD, Crab and Morgan are a much better group than Clark and Solomon to me. Just gimme Walsh 2 and Montana 2!
Something tells me you were too young to have seen Clark and Solomon play in '81.

Clark was not a "slow-footed possession receiver." Prior to his knee injury he had above average speed. His role was to be the tough guy to get the yards over the middle because his was big and strong, AND he was very good at reading defenses. He and Montana had a very good understanding between them. Joe knew he could trust Dwight to be where he needed to be and that Clark would use his body well to protect the pass and the ball.

Solomon in his last year with the team was faster than anyone now. Ultimately he was too small to play in the system and was replaced.

Until Rice arrived, the 49er offense relied very much on the system, not the players. Yes, Montana was very good at executing it but the league had not even begun to catch up. Buddy Ryan thought he had it figured out but the 49ers went into Chicago and spanked him and his 46 on a bitterly cold day when no one thought anybody could throw the ball.

There was a lot more to those teams than just Joe.

Errr gotta disagree with ya on that one. He had deceptive speed. Not above average speed. He was also very physical which gave him the appearance of being more athletic. He compares most favorably IMO to a modern day Antonio Gates.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.
Originally posted by SWAGG-ER:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by pigskin:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by pigskin:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

How did Clark and Solomon do before Montana played?

...

Exactly!

Actually, Freddie had pretty much the same game in Miami before coming to the 9ers. His best years were with the 9ers in 79 and 81. 1979 was before Montana became a starter. As far as Dwight Clark is concerned he came to the 9ers with Montana in 1979, so they grew up together as football players.

Edit: In 1979 DeBerg was Solomon's QB and in Miami he had a guy named Griese.

My point still stands. Why make Clark and Solomon into something special when they would not be without Montana?

Freddie was just OK and at in his last legs. I would say he had Montana, and not the other way around.

Clark was a slow footed possession receiver. Crab is a rocket compared to him. I am not saying he was not a good one, but again, Walsh and Montana were the main reason he did what he did. Look at how much better the next group of WRs did once he was done. John Taylor may be a better receiver, but got overshadowed by the great Jerry Rice.

VD, Crab and Morgan are a much better group than Clark and Solomon to me. Just gimme Walsh 2 and Montana 2!
Something tells me you were too young to have seen Clark and Solomon play in '81.

Clark was not a "slow-footed possession receiver." Prior to his knee injury he had above average speed. His role was to be the tough guy to get the yards over the middle because his was big and strong, AND he was very good at reading defenses. He and Montana had a very good understanding between them. Joe knew he could trust Dwight to be where he needed to be and that Clark would use his body well to protect the pass and the ball.

Solomon in his last year with the team was faster than anyone now. Ultimately he was too small to play in the system and was replaced.

Until Rice arrived, the 49er offense relied very much on the system, not the players. Yes, Montana was very good at executing it but the league had not even begun to catch up. Buddy Ryan thought he had it figured out but the 49ers went into Chicago and spanked him and his 46 on a bitterly cold day when no one thought anybody could throw the ball.

There was a lot more to those teams than just Joe.

Errr gotta disagree with ya on that one. He had deceptive speed. Not above average speed. He was also very physical which gave him the appearance of being more athletic. He compares most favorably IMO to a modern day Antonio Gates.
Well, if you like that comparison I won't split hairs about it. I do recall him breaking off some long runs but he didn't out run anybody for more than 40 yards. However, as you point out, that wasn't his game.

After Rice arrived, Walsh began to add some things to the offense which used his speed. Prior to that time, the offense was known more for its "5 yard handoffs."
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Come on Leathaface and niner4life, show some maturity. You are sounding like petulent juveniles.

dj43 is a very observant, insightful poster, in fact one of the best. Just because you do not agree with him, you should not characature his points. You just demean yourself.

. We've both had many discussions with dj43. Just because you agree with him doesn't make any counterarguments a sign of "immaturity".

Funny thing is, it's not a caricature at all...that is exactly what he's saying even if he won't admit it.
I have never said AS is a great QB, or even a good one. He ranks in the low 20s among QBs in this league...and he has also been in one of the worst situations of any player in recent times. NONE of us here know how good he might be if properly coached...and that is what Harbaugh is trying to learn right now, although I believe he has already seen enough to know what Smith can do. All this time the two of them are spending together should be a pretty good indication that Harbaugh believes that Alex can be better than any of the FA or trade options.

I don't think he will be a Pro Bowl player but if he can continue the same numbers he had in the final 1/3 of the past year (90+) I will be just fine with that.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by excelsior:
Come on Leathaface and niner4life, show some maturity. You are sounding like petulent juveniles.

dj43 is a very observant, insightful poster, in fact one of the best. Just because you do not agree with him, you should not characature his points. You just demean yourself.

. We've both had many discussions with dj43. Just because you agree with him doesn't make any counterarguments a sign of "immaturity".

Funny thing is, it's not a caricature at all...that is exactly what he's saying even if he won't admit it.
I have never said AS is a great QB, or even a good one. He ranks in the low 20s among QBs in this league...and he has also been in one of the worst situations of any player in recent times. NONE of us here know how good he might be if properly coached...and that is what Harbaugh is trying to learn right now, although I believe he has already seen enough to know what Smith can do. All this time the two of them are spending together should be a pretty good indication that Harbaugh believes that Alex can be better than any of the FA or trade options.

I don't think he will be a Pro Bowl player but if he can continue the same numbers he had in the final 1/3 of the past year (90+) I will be just fine with that.

I think Harbaugh is spending time with him b/c he might not have another option with the CBA issue. Not that any of us know what he's thinking anyway.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.

Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

The coaching has been bad on this team since Mooch was canned, hopefully Harbaugh can live up to all this hype. I miss having a coach that cares about the offense.
Originally posted by rEspEctdA49ers:
I'm kinda debating on whether or not Carson Palmer would be a good choice...

If he is healthy, I think he would be better than nearly every other realistic option out there. As a transitional QB, he would be exceptional because he is willing to be a mentor to younger QBs.

He is very bright, knows the WCO, can still throw with accuracy and touch, is an excellent team player, wants to win, wants to be out of Cincinnati, and wants to be in SF..... Seems like a good fit to me.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by TheCatch:
Originally posted by Pick6:
wow this thing is still going...

We REALLY need a QB.

Big understatement. Take a look a Greenbay right now. They are at the point we were in 81. New up and coming star quarterback, with a young team with playmakers, and a coach that knows how to win. Look familiar? We need to get our hands on the next Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady etc. to compete for the championship, and I'm sure Harbaugh knows it. He's looking for a stand in right now, because this top five quarterback is nowhere to be found at this time.
But we don't have either Dwight Clark OR Freddie Solomon right now...and anyone that thinks Chilo Rachal is John Ayers is just as bad off as the guy that thinks Anthony Davis is Keith Fahnhorst.

C'mon dj we have more than enough talent on this offense to be a contender.
A contender in the NFC West, but not much beyond that.

No one would like to see this team win more than me but it appears some folks have some very inflated views of the talent on this team. The only decent players on offense are Gore, who is coming off a serious injury and has a lot of miles, and Vernon Davis, who is a big strong blocker with speed but who still doesn't know how to read a defense or run good routes.

The offensive line is filled with a bunch of underachievers who have shown nothing close to expectations, Iupati excepted, and the most important position, QB, is vacant at this time. We are all hoping that Harbaugh will turn a bunch of these guys into Pro Bowlers but that is not likely to happen. Things should definitely get better but I don't see any way this current roster is competitive outside the NFCW this season. I honestly think 7 wins this year will be the upper limit...and that assumes someone other than a rookie is playing QB. If it is a rookie then 6 wins is a dream season.

We are a contender now in the NFC West, if our QB's hadn't choked on more than half of the games this year we most likely would've won the division. And wow your criticism of Vernon Davis couldn't be more off, hes probably the best blocking TE in the league who was underutilized last year. Davis gets much separation on his routes, there's a reason he has been our best receiver the last two years. But like you said, the QB is the most important position and our offense goes as our QB does.
Davis gets separation on one route; a seam route when he has only a LB to beat underneath and a safety coming from the side. He wins that one most of the time. As to the typical curl and slant routes and blitz adjustments...not so well. The fact he has been the most productive receiver is more of a criticism of the weak crew of wide outs than his own prowess. That is his history. As to how he does in the future, I trust Harbaugh's staff will do a much better job than Pete Hoener.

Since when is Davis asked to run a curl??? And I don't know why you question his slant routes, he does it with ease. But if you've been paying attention to VD this season or last, his main job was to create mismatches with his speed and find the soft spot in the zones. You're mistaking him as just a plain receiver, he doesn't fight off CB's at the LOS, hes a mismatch to LB and Safeties.

Yea dj43s hating on Davis is just another way of creating excuses for Alex Smith. Truth hurts.
Quit putting words in my mouth. I'm not hating on Davis.

Vernon Davis is still a work in progress. The coaching he has received is no more complete than what Alex Smith received. It is no wonder Harbaugh didn't retain Hoener. He never finished the job with Davis. VD has some special abilities but the main job of a TE in the passing game is the one part he still lacks in the most. It doesn't matter than he can do some WR things if he doesn't do what any good QB needs to have from his TE.

As to his slant routes; there have been multiple times when the ball sailed past his helmet before he even looked back on slants. There were multiple times when he allowed the LB to come underneath him on routes which killed the timing of the play.

But yes, the lack of quality on the part of the 49er receivers is just another reason this team has been so bad the past 8 years.

It sounds to me like your hate for Smith has blinded you to other significant problems with the offense.

. The guy has nearly 2000 yards and over 20 TDs in two years. His receiving is not the problem. But go on, believe what you want. I don't post in these threads often anymore b/c geniuses like you are crawling in them...I can never win an argument vs such intelligence.
See, that is the problem when ALL one does is look at the stats.

I have watched the guy since he came out. I have heard multiple announcers, including Gary Plummer, point out the flaws in Davis' game as they pertain to the nuts-and-bolts routes and reads that I have mentioned. If you want to win the argument, go have it with Gary Plummer. He was a LB that had to deal with TEs and the short zones. He should know what he is talking about when he points out some of the things he has...and that I have passed on here.

Nice chat, y'all. It's been a very long day. 'nite.

Are you serious? Vernon Davis is the most complete TE in the NFL. I can only imagine how much better his stats would be if he had someone like Rodgers as his qb and a creative offense like Harbaugh's. Gary Plummer could never in his wildest dreams cover a TE like Vernon. Easy to pick out flaws in a guy you never played against. Vernon's hands have improved ten fold since he was drafted. His route running is excellent. The way he shed's blocks and can run any pattern in the route tree is unheard of for a man his size. The td catch called back against the rams this season showed me everything i need to know about how far Vernon has come. We are truly lucky as fans to have such an athlete. Not to mention a great guy. Great with the community, great with the media, and a great clubhouse leader.