Coaching Wasn't Nearly as Bad as You Think!

Originally posted by nflguy49:
The Niners coaches can't even figure out how to get a play call in time (before qb mic gets cut off). It doesn't get more pathetic then that!


All the coaching and playcalling improvements in the world won't fix a qb that can't hit a wide open receiver two yards away.

Im wit u on that, or a receiver that cant catch a pass directly in his hands, whether too hard or not. Favre threw one of the hardest passes in the league, whether short or long. And his WR's used to say how they'd have to ice their hands after a game or practice. But no one made an excuse as to why the ball wasnt caught. And i wonder why. PRobably because it was caught.

Sometimes i hate some of the passes thrown, but the job of being a WR is when things arent perfect or breakdown, u make a play. i bet you Rice would of caught both those passes that Crabtree didnt, or Morgan bending his body the right way. Or if that had been delanie walker catching that pass other than moran norris. As a WR if the only time u can make a play is when the ball is perfect all the time, then half of the leagues WR's wouldnt have the yards they do.

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Baloney. Before you slit your wrists just check, for instance, the draft. Dark times! BS. Utter BS. The TDon era was a dark time. Joe Thomas. But this is one game.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.

The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

Norris ball was catchable. And with nobody around him don't matter if it's a laser or lob, you gotta catch that ball.

I agree with the Pass downfield to Ginn, but Ginn never even turned around to track it. Bad form all way round.

Pick 6 was Tree not cutting off his Route at the correct time where he was supposed to.

1st INT was not a shovel pass. Took his eyes off the ball before it got there and caromed off his right shoulder pad.

I was pissed that the call went the wrong way on that PI. No way in hell Nate was guilty of holding. You could SEE he wasn't guilty of it when it happened at full speed. IR showed that as well.

IMHO that call was tantamount to the Refs picking the Shattle up dusting them off using mom's miracle cleaner to clean off the booboo and giving them a 50 gallon drum size shot of momentum. It was that bad.

And how about when the Crew leader was about fawning all over Carrol? Wonder if that guy went to USC.

Alex called the Timeouts in the 1st half not Sing. But let's be honest he HAD to call them. Plays just are not getting in fast enough. Either Raye or our QB Coach is to blame here. Or maybe it's a little of both.

At the time I was glad we were going for it in the Red Zone. I still like that our Coach had the balls and the confidence in his players to do that. Sucked that it didn't go in our favor but it's one game, Shattle had our playbook and we got away from the Run in the 1st half. Have to admit that Carrol had his guys prepared for this game.

The Stick better be hoppin when they come to play there.

~Ceadder

You're defending the coaches by blaming the player’s poor performance. Ultimately the player’s preparation is the coach’s responsibility. Yes they can't play the game for them but this team just failed at every level. To say they do not look well coached is an understatement.

As for Raye I was thinking any coordinator for two years in a row would be better than a new one. I was wrong. Raye's play calling has been consistently criticized by many. Maybe he called a couple plays that should have worked but you can't consider him a good play caller.

And if where talking about the play calling why can't this team even get a play called. For the second season we are having trouble with a basic operation that I haven't ever noticed any other team routinely struggle with. That's incompetent and beyond embarrassing.

I have always and only ever been a Niner fan. I couldn't bring myself to root for anyone else. But there are days I wish I could. I also wish those days didn't span a decade.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Baloney. Before you slit your wrists just check, for instance, the draft. Dark times! BS. Utter BS. The TDon era was a dark time. Joe Thomas. But this is one game.

Still though, you have to admit it doesn't look good when we come out in the first game of the season and make the same mistakes that have plagued us in the past. And run the same, boring offensive schemes. We haven't taken the step forward that everyone expected, and look like we've regressed. Not good.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
So after I had some time to digest yesterday's complete blowout, I mustard up the courage to rewatch the game. What I found actually made me feel a little better. Yes the playcalling can be predictable. And yes, the communication issues falls squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff, but the coaches did enough for us to win that game. Let's look at the facts.


We completly dominated most of the first half, starting with the interception on the first play of the game.,

It's not Raye's fault that Smith and Morgan couldn't get the touchdown. Morgan was open. The call worked. Either Smith threw too high or Morgan doesn't have enough body control or both. Put that on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Moran Norris went into backpeddle mode and Smith lobbed him the ball instead of throwing it directly at him. The fact that Norris was so wide open tells me it was a good call. The players didn't execute.

It's not Raye's fault that Smith couldn't get Ginn the ball when he clearly had his man beat downfield. A good throw probably would of resulted in a TD. Once again, thats on the players.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs decided to zig when Smith decided to throw the ball zag which resulted in a pick six.

It's not Raye's fault that Crabs couldn't hold on to what was essentially a bad shovel pass from Smith which also resulted in an interception.

Can you really blame Coach Sing that T.Brown wanted to be the hero and bit hard on the double fake from Mike Williams which resulted in a TD? If anything, we know our coaching staff preaches staying within your assignment. No way Sing or Manusky agrees a cb should be jumping a route before the ball is even in the air.

In fact, the execution was so poor from the players that I didn't even bother mentioning the phantom PI call on Nate. That play kept the drive alive for the Hawks which lead to their first TD. That really was when things started going down hill.
The point is, even though the coaches didn't operate at a very high level, they at least dialed up enough plays that if they would have been properly executed would of resulted in a much closer game and possibly the win. In retrospect, I dont think all is lost. I just think we needed more time in the preseason to build chemistry.

Seriously, look at all the points THE PLAYERS left on the field.

That play changed the game. If not for that bad call it would have been a punt, but should have been a pick 6. They gave up after that play.

Originally posted by MBniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Baloney. Before you slit your wrists just check, for instance, the draft. Dark times! BS. Utter BS. The TDon era was a dark time. Joe Thomas. But this is one game.

Still though, you have to admit it doesn't look good when we come out in the first game of the season and make the same mistakes that have plagued us in the past. And run the same, boring offensive schemes. We haven't taken the step forward that everyone expected, and look like we've regressed. Not good.

I agree. But there is a big difference between this, and Dark Times. Appart from sounding ridiculously pompous, two weeks ago we were celebrating how well things were going. This is a setback. Not Dark Times.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by MBniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Baloney. Before you slit your wrists just check, for instance, the draft. Dark times! BS. Utter BS. The TDon era was a dark time. Joe Thomas. But this is one game.

Still though, you have to admit it doesn't look good when we come out in the first game of the season and make the same mistakes that have plagued us in the past. And run the same, boring offensive schemes. We haven't taken the step forward that everyone expected, and look like we've regressed. Not good.

I agree. But there is a big difference between this, and Dark Times. Appart from sounding ridiculously pompous, two weeks ago we were celebrating how well things were going. This is a setback. Not Dark Times.

No, but what it is is a step in direction of validating the fact that Smith has wasted a lot of this organization's time. He's not the QB they are hoping he will be, and a lot of people knew that a while ago. That and the fact that we need to get an OC that's last paycheck wasn't cut by social security.

Originally posted by MBniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by MBniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Baloney. Before you slit your wrists just check, for instance, the draft. Dark times! BS. Utter BS. The TDon era was a dark time. Joe Thomas. But this is one game.

Still though, you have to admit it doesn't look good when we come out in the first game of the season and make the same mistakes that have plagued us in the past. And run the same, boring offensive schemes. We haven't taken the step forward that everyone expected, and look like we've regressed. Not good.

I agree. But there is a big difference between this, and Dark Times. Appart from sounding ridiculously pompous, two weeks ago we were celebrating how well things were going. This is a setback. Not Dark Times.

No, but what it is is a step in direction of validating the fact that Smith has wasted a lot of this organization's time. He's not the QB they are hoping he will be, and a lot of people knew that a while ago. That and the fact that we need to get an OC that's last paycheck wasn't cut by social security.

No they didn't "know" it a while ago. They were biased against him. They may turn out with the benefit of hindsight to have been right, but don't confuse an opinion with a fact.

Raye may well not last out the season. Who do we replace him with?

Jimmy Raye sucks, stop making excuses

I know it sucks to change an OC in the middle of a season... no time to install an offense, etc... BUT - with the talent around the Offense (not counting QB), perhaps we could entertain bringing in a WCO O-Coordinator, and a QB who could thrive in that type of offense (even Carr might work here). The WCO is QB friendly, and it has enough variations to allow for the type of talent we have.

I hate the idea of yet another OC, but if it ain't Smith as the QB, and the coordinator gets a WCO-friendly/experienced QB (there are some - including some journeymen out there), we might actually have a better (and less offensively predictable) season.

Keep Sing as HC, but he should focus strictly on motivation and the D side of the ball. Let an OC with WCO history take the offensive reins. Even if the coordinator doesn't stick around, the system will sustain itself - remember the Niners of the 80s, 90s? There is a LOT of coaching and QB talent around the league that is familiar with our "grand old offense".

Bring back the WCO. I know football, having played it for years, and I understand what changing an Offense means, but in this case it is worth it. In a weak Division we can still win it if we act now!

I agree with the OP but there were some bad coaching calls too. The blame doesn't fall on no one individual but a variety of them.

Hey, in another thread , "i never thot i'd say this but....our coaches aren't smart enough, or can't think fast enough on their feet to be successful". That's harsh, that's ugly, but sadly, that's the truth. What was our single worst sin last yr? Not getting the plays in on time, forcing alex to rush to the line, with no chance to change the play (and many of us saw many plays that were DOA before the snap---alex must have seen that too). Face it, you do it once, it's a distraction. Do it twice and it's unforgiveable,(and the team is beginning to wonder, does HC and OC have their schidt together). Do it third time and you take 4 pts off the board from the 6 inch line. Do it again, and it is embarrassing. Worse, it DEMORALIZES a team that was ready to go out and win.

YOu know what is really sick? bigmike(BM), taking the c.s. route and claiming headsets didn't work...it's only a problem for us all last yr (Plus the half yr he was here before), and we start off this yr with...not getting the plays in on time. If I had been playing in that game, i would have just given up, because i could see that once again our coaches just aren't HC or OC material. Jimmyrae has been around the block , twice, and is just completely unimaginative. When a good many of us know what play is coming based on our set, what do you think the professional D on the other side is thinking. That is old, tired O playcalling by a guy who time has passed by.

now, BM, our HC: He knew last yr and for 6 games of previous yr, that he and his OC had a problem thinking fast on his feet, dithered, and got plays in slowly. He knew that as a major problem to fix over the off season, some 4 long months, plus 6-8 weeks of OTAs and PS. What does he come out with in first game? That's right, can't make up his mind (or OC) and plays once again come in late, we blow a chance on 4th and inches, and ...wallah...it is over. Game, set , point, match. Our coaches deserve full credit for demoralizing our entire team. It would be nice, not to mention manly, to take credit for this fiasco. But no, BM comes out with "its the helmets". What a crock. And, coincidentally, after that, I finally gave up on BM. He laid a big green steamer on SEA front lawn, hence the name BM, and then refused to take credit for it. I expected better from a man i used to admire. Now, he's just another hack, trying to hold onto his job. OC and HC disgust me.

Okay, some calls did get in on time, and as pointed out above, we bunch up tight on 2nd down and it is...surprise...a handoff to #21. Wow, were the defenders ever shocked. We bring TEs in and run frank. HOly cow.What finesse. What clever play calling. What horse schidt. No, no way anyone is going to convince me our OC and HC deserve any more time. They have shown what they have, and it isn't enough, not near enough. It isn't worthy of the word "professional" . The two commentators on TV commented on it from the first TO to the last TO. They said in no uncertain terms it was amazing how the 49er just couldn't get their plays in on time.

Now to your point of alex throwing tall and high to end zone, twice, and he threw his heater both times. One was ruled OOB, and the other was flat out over #44 head. He screwed up, twice. Thank God for staley, AD (got beat once around the corner), and upoti. They blocked well. But the rest of the gang, baas, snyder, chilo, rags...man, they never moved anybody off the LOS. They played like krap. You really mean to tell me our OL coaches, our OC, and our HC didn't know that those four guys couldnt' block a guy on the LOS, virtually most of the game. Either we have kept around four OL stiffs, or, our coaches weren't aware these guys couldn't cut the mustard because they are lousy players, or...they have lousy coaching. IF the latter, then our HC should be out there , 24 hrs a day if need be, instructing them on how to block. Oh, that's right, he can't , because he never coached OL...or DL, Dbs, RBs, QBs, TEs, STs, WRs., OC, DC..heck, he never really coached anything but LBs, and they played very well thank you.

So there you have it. Non professional HC and OC, neither qualified for their job, and one was jump skipped by a very green owner's son to HC with no qualifications for job except he was GOAT LB, no doubt. BM is a great motivator, has brot this team back from the ashes, but he is tapped out...he can't get us better from here, because he has no experience across the board. RAh rah won't win it for us anymore. He has straightened this team out, resurrected VD, made p52 all pro and best LB anywhere, but that is it. It is time for the yorks to move on, and make a change now. We are just going to see more of the same with these two jokers, and that isn't good enough with the talent assembled here. Did our OC and HC not know that alex couldnt throw anythign but a high hard one inside the 5 yd line? Hadn't they worked with him in that situation to be sure he knew how to throw a touch pass? Hey, sure you can blame players, but this was coaching failure, top to bottom, and our HC and OC are killing this team right now. Their unpreparedness, their obvious lack of knowledge for 2010 football, is a dead weight around this team's neck right now.

The honorable thing to do is for BM to resign, and JR to go too. I would love for baalke to try and persuade Tony Dungy to have mercy on us and take us over for the rest of the yr. Barring that, i would ask Gruden. If that were to happen, i guarantee one thing: you would NEVER, EVER , see a call come in late again, nor ever see a TO or clock run down on the goal line. That, as Holmes would say , "Is elementary, my dear Watson".

[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Sep 14, 2010 at 10:03:34 ]

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Hey, in another thread , "i never thot i'd say this but....our coaches aren't smart enough, or can't think fast enough on their feet to be successful". That's harsh, that's ugly, but sadly, that's the truth. What was our single worst sin last yr? Not getting the plays in on time, forcing alex to rush to the line, with no chance to change the play (and many of us saw many plays that were DOA before the snap---alex must have seen that too). Face it, you do it once, it's a distraction. Do it twice and it's unforgiveable,(and the team is beginning to wonder, does HC and OC have their schidt together). Do it third time and you take 4 pts off the board from the 6 inch line. Do it again, and it is embarrassing. Worse, it DEMORALIZES a team that was ready to go out and win.

YOu know what is really sick? bigmike(BM), taking the c.s. route and claiming headsets didn't work...it's only a problem for us all last yr (Plus the half yr he was here before), and we start off this yr with...not getting the plays in on time. If I had been playing in that game, i would have just given up, because i could see that once again our coaches just aren't HC or OC material. Jimmyrae has been around the block , twice, and is just completely unimaginative. When a good many of us know what play is coming based on our set, what do you think the professional D on the other side is thinking. That is old, tired O playcalling by a guy who time has passed by.

now, BM, our HC: He knew last yr and for 6 games of previous yr, that he and his OC had a problem thinking fast on his feet, dithered, and got plays in slowly. He knew that as a major problem to fix over the off season, some 4 long months, plus 6-8 weeks of OTAs and PS. What does he come out with in first game? That's right, can't make up his mind (or OC) and plays once again come in late, we blow a chance on 4th and inches, and ...wallah...it is over. Game, set , point, match. Our coaches deserve full credit for demoralizing our entire team. It would be nice, not to mention manly, to take credit for this fiasco. But no, BM comes out with "its the helmets". What a crock. And, coincidentally, after that, I finally gave up on BM. He laid a big green steamer on SEA front lawn, hence the name BM, and then refused to take credit for it. I expected better from a man i used to admire. Now, he's just another hack, trying to hold onto his job. OC and HC disgust me.

Okay, some calls did get in on time, and as pointed out above, we bunch up tight on 2nd down and it is...surprise...a handoff to #21. Wow, were the defenders ever shocked. We bring TEs in and run frank. HOly cow.What finesse. What clever play calling. What horse schidt. No, no way anyone is going to convince me our OC and HC deserve any more time. They have shown what they have, and it isn't enough, not near enough. It isn't worthy of the word "professional" . The two commentators on TV commented on it from the first TO to the last TO. They said in no uncertain terms it was amazing how the 49er just couldn't get their plays in on time.

Now to your point of alex throwing tall and high to end zone, twice, and he threw his heater both times. One was ruled OOB, and the other was flat out over #44 head. He screwed up, twice. Thank God for staley, AD (got beat once around the corner), and upoti. They blocked well. But the rest of the gang, baas, snyder, chilo, rags...man, they never moved anybody off the LOS. They played like krap. You really mean to tell me our OL coaches, our OC, and our HC didn't know that those four guys couldnt' block a guy on the LOS, virtually most of the game. Either we have kept around four OL stiffs, or, our coaches weren't aware these guys couldn't cut the mustard because they are lousy players, or...they have lousy coaching. IF the latter, then our HC should be out there , 24 hrs a day if need be, instructing them on how to block. Oh, that's right, he can't , because he never coached OL...or DL, Dbs, RBs, QBs, TEs, STs, WRs., OC, DC..heck, he never really coached anything but LBs, and they played very well thank you.

So there you have it. Non professional HC and OC, neither qualified for their job, and one was jump skipped by a very green owner's son to HC with no qualifications for job except he was GOAT LB, no doubt. BM is a great motivator, has brot this team back from the ashes, but he is tapped out...he can't get us better from here, because he has no experience across the board. RAh rah won't win it for us anymore. He has straightened this team out, resurrected VD, made p53 all pro and best LB anywhere, but that is it. It is time for the yorks to move on, and make a change now. We are just going to see more of the same with these two jokers, and that isn't good enough with the talent assembled here. Did our OC and HC not know that alex couldnt throw anythign but a high hard one inside the 5 yd line? Hadn't they worked with him in that situation to be sure he knew how to throw a touch pass? Hey, sure you can blame players, but this was coaching failure, top to bottom, and our HC and OC are killing this team right now. Their unpreparedness, their obvious lack of knowledge for 2010 football, is a dead weight around this team's neck right now.

The honorable thing to do is for BM to resign, and JR to go too. I would love for baalke to try and persuade Tony Dungy to have mercy on us and take us over for the rest of the yr. Barring that, i would ask Gruden. If that were to happen, i guarantee one thing: you would NEVER, EVER , see a call come in late again, nor ever see a TO or clock run down on the goal line. That, as Holmes would say , "Is elementary, my dear Watson".

interesting write ups bro but if you're serious about sing resigning now i have to say put down the pipe...totally understand where you're comin from, but whether you choose to believe or not, we do in fact have a nucleus and he's been a major part of building it over the years...he's the one who can make sense of it to fix. that includes qb play, oc playcall, and yeah his own clock mgnt.

look, even though we're dogs next week against the sb champs, the main thing i wanna see is how we stack against them. just like we did vs. indy & minny last year, we bounce back and to show that competitiveness then we'll know the problems are correctable.

wayyy too early to jump ship...had a feeling all this offseason hype would lead to this kinda reaction