Coaching Wasn't Nearly as Bad as You Think!

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by MBniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by MBniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by NorthNiner:

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Our whole organization sucks. It's dark times for niner fans.

Baloney. Before you slit your wrists just check, for instance, the draft. Dark times! BS. Utter BS. The TDon era was a dark time. Joe Thomas. But this is one game.

Still though, you have to admit it doesn't look good when we come out in the first game of the season and make the same mistakes that have plagued us in the past. And run the same, boring offensive schemes. We haven't taken the step forward that everyone expected, and look like we've regressed. Not good.

I agree. But there is a big difference between this, and Dark Times. Appart from sounding ridiculously pompous, two weeks ago we were celebrating how well things were going. This is a setback. Not Dark Times.

No, but what it is is a step in direction of validating the fact that Smith has wasted a lot of this organization's time. He's not the QB they are hoping he will be, and a lot of people knew that a while ago. That and the fact that we need to get an OC that's last paycheck wasn't cut by social security.

No they didn't "know" it a while ago. They were biased against him. They may turn out with the benefit of hindsight to have been right, but don't confuse an opinion with a fact.

Raye may well not last out the season. Who do we replace him with?

Hey, when it comes to facts with Smith, that's an easy argument to make. They did know it, I just think they had a lot riding on him and didn't want to admit it was the wrong call. At least the Raiders cut bait early.

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by nflguy49:
The Niners coaches can't even figure out how to get a play call in time (before qb mic gets cut off). It doesn't get more pathetic then that!


All the coaching and playcalling improvements in the world won't fix a qb that can't hit a wide open receiver two yards away.

Im wit u on that, or a receiver that cant catch a pass directly in his hands, whether too hard or not. Favre threw one of the hardest passes in the league, whether short or long. And his WR's used to say how they'd have to ice their hands after a game or practice. But no one made an excuse as to why the ball wasnt caught. And i wonder why. PRobably because it was caught.

Sometimes i hate some of the passes thrown, but the job of being a WR is when things arent perfect or breakdown, u make a play. i bet you Rice would of caught both those passes that Crabtree didnt, or Morgan bending his body the right way. Or if that had been delanie walker catching that pass other than moran norris. As a WR if the only time u can make a play is when the ball is perfect all the time, then half of the leagues WR's wouldnt have the yards they do.

maybe so, maybe not......but I will tell you Rice would not look good out there..

yall keep ignoring what I have posted before about good qbs and bad qbs.

good QB will make an offensive personnel look better than they are..

a bad QB will make an offensive personnel look worse than they are...

as much as most here want our WRs to catch all these inaccurate dangerous passes...imo, it is more important that our QBs put our receivers in the best situation to make catches.....

I would rather rely on having a QB that is more accurate with non-athletic WRs....than an inaccurate QB with Brandon Loyds everywhere.

the thing about Rice was....there were many here would bashed him and said he was done, because of his play.... I pointed out that Garcia was doing a horrible job and making him look bad....heck even Jerry's wife called a radio station to point this out.......

but what happened when we got rid of the old man who couldn't play anymore....he went across the Bay and played with an accurate QB...and for the next 3 seasons, this "washed up" old man put up 3,100+ yards with 18 TDs as well as helped his new team make the SuperBowl.

If Rice had Alex as his QB...he would have looked bad as well.

The coaching in this game wasn't stellar...the communication problems in getting Alex the plays were awful. I also think Raye called too many running plays between the tackles that simply weren't working. He called one screen pass to Gore...and it worked. Why he didn't call it again is a mystery...that and some delays can help slow down the pass rush. The 4th down pass to Norris was a good play...but Raye had the wrong guy out there. A much better choice would've been a TE...like Byham, whom Seattle probably wouldn't have anticipated would be a primary receiver. He could've lined up at the FB position. It's true Alex slightly overthew it, but it was catchable with the right guy out there. It should've been an over-the-shoulder reception, not backpeddling where you have little control. I did like that Singletary went for it on 4th down several times in the RZ...he was trying to give the OL some confidence, but they didn't execute.

Cragy, i'm not jumping ship, i'm just pointing out we got another noln situation here, and trying to revive a dead fish is pointless. I already gave BM creds for what he has done to help this team. But the point has been reached when he is out of his element. You really wouldn't want Tony Dungy to come in here as a goodwill gesture to help us finish out the yr while baalke works on a HC with both creds and experience, incl OC, for next yr? I'd do it in a heartbeat. If not him, gruden...for rest of yr.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
The coaching in this game wasn't stellar...the communication problems in getting Alex the plays were awful. I also think Raye called too many running plays between the tackles that simply weren't working. He called one screen pass to Gore...and it worked. Why he didn't call it again is a mystery...that and some delays can help slow down the pass rush. The 4th down pass to Norris was a good play...but Raye had the wrong guy out there. A much better choice would've been a TE...like Byham, whom Seattle probably wouldn't have anticipated would be a primary receiver. He could've lined up at the FB position. It's true Alex slightly overthew it, but it was catchable with the right guy out there. It should've been an over-the-shoulder reception, not backpeddling where you have little control. I did like that Singletary went for it on 4th down several times in the RZ...he was trying to give the OL some confidence, but they didn't execute.

That just sounds like a crazy comment to me. Thats like saying, "the QB had a perfect throw if the guy was a foot taller?" Huh? The fact is the right guy was out there. The pay worked. Alex over threw him, so much so that Norris fell down trying to reach the ball. Either way, Moran or Smith, you can't blame Jimmy Jam.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Cragy, i'm not jumping ship, i'm just pointing out we got another noln situation here, and trying to revive a dead fish is pointless. I already gave BM creds for what he has done to help this team. But the point has been reached when he is out of his element. You really wouldn't want Tony Dungy to come in here as a goodwill gesture to help us finish out the yr while baalke works on a HC with both creds and experience, incl OC, for next yr? I'd do it in a heartbeat. If not him, gruden...for rest of yr.

believe me i feel you...lol just like my remote did when it hit the wall (rip). throwin out those two names both bein sb coaches would be a wet dream at this point. i personally dont think it will happen but u never know right? i'd just hope jed learned from daddyo's mistake of jumpin the gun without a net and make damn sure you got'em in the house before makin any moves. but for the record i'm pullin for the entire current team top-down to correct the issues everyone has been breakin down. we'll see monday?

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
The coaching in this game wasn't stellar...the communication problems in getting Alex the plays were awful. I also think Raye called too many running plays between the tackles that simply weren't working. He called one screen pass to Gore...and it worked. Why he didn't call it again is a mystery...that and some delays can help slow down the pass rush. The 4th down pass to Norris was a good play...but Raye had the wrong guy out there. A much better choice would've been a TE...like Byham, whom Seattle probably wouldn't have anticipated would be a primary receiver. He could've lined up at the FB position. It's true Alex slightly overthew it, but it was catchable with the right guy out there. It should've been an over-the-shoulder reception, not backpeddling where you have little control. I did like that Singletary went for it on 4th down several times in the RZ...he was trying to give the OL some confidence, but they didn't execute.

That just sounds like a crazy comment to me. Thats like saying, "the QB had a perfect throw if the guy was a foot taller?" Huh? The fact is the right guy was out there. The pay worked. Alex over threw him, so much so that Norris fell down trying to reach the ball. Either way, Moran or Smith, you can't blame Jimmy Jam.

You can blame the OC for anything.

How often did we practice that play? It sounds like Smith had no idea how to throw a pass to Moran Norris and it looked like Moran Norris had no idea how to catch a ball lob pass by running under it.

If we didn't practice it why was it our penultimate play call on 4th and goal?

Originally posted by 49ersnum1:
It might not have been horrible, but there is still no imagination, and SEA knew what was coming..

I-formation = 1. run up the gut 2. play action 3. dink and dunk. - So when you crowd the box expecting a run, whethere we pass or not, its easy for the defense to react to the short stuff..

shotgun, 4WR set = even in this formation, the routes designed are horrible!! you have 2-3 WR running across the field 2-10yards resulting in short passes. 1 guy will run deep but a safety and corner is there for the most part to take that away..

to vanilla IMHO.. Look at the way some of the explosive offenses routes are designed for chuncks, while ours is designed for 5yards.. horrible

finaly a post with some ananlysis
it really opens the discussion about a deeper problem than the players executing plays properly : the DESIGN of plays
We know about raye's playcalling, almost everyone agrees it sucks
But the designs of his plays svck even bigger !
Good point

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by nflguy49:
The Niners coaches can't even figure out how to get a play call in time (before qb mic gets cut off). It doesn't get more pathetic then that!


All the coaching and playcalling improvements in the world won't fix a qb that can't hit a wide open receiver two yards away.

Im wit u on that, or a receiver that cant catch a pass directly in his hands, whether too hard or not. Favre threw one of the hardest passes in the league, whether short or long. And his WR's used to say how they'd have to ice their hands after a game or practice. But no one made an excuse as to why the ball wasnt caught. And i wonder why. PRobably because it was caught.

Sometimes i hate some of the passes thrown, but the job of being a WR is when things arent perfect or breakdown, u make a play. i bet you Rice would of caught both those passes that Crabtree didnt, or Morgan bending his body the right way. Or if that had been delanie walker catching that pass other than moran norris. As a WR if the only time u can make a play is when the ball is perfect all the time, then half of the leagues WR's wouldnt have the yards they do.

maybe so, maybe not......but I will tell you Rice would not look good out there..

yall keep ignoring what I have posted before about good qbs and bad qbs.

good QB will make an offensive personnel look better than they are..

a bad QB will make an offensive personnel look worse than they are...

as much as most here want our WRs to catch all these inaccurate dangerous passes...imo, it is more important that our QBs put our receivers in the best situation to make catches.....

I would rather rely on having a QB that is more accurate with non-athletic WRs....than an inaccurate QB with Brandon Loyds everywhere.

the thing about Rice was....there were many here would bashed him and said he was done, because of his play.... I pointed out that Garcia was doing a horrible job and making him look bad....heck even Jerry's wife called a radio station to point this out.......

but what happened when we got rid of the old man who couldn't play anymore....he went across the Bay and played with an accurate QB...and for the next 3 seasons, this "washed up" old man put up 3,100+ yards with 18 TDs as well as helped his new team make the SuperBowl.

If Rice had Alex as his QB...he would have looked bad as well.

Sorry on this one Afrik, but i disagree. if you notice, they dont talk about how good a WR is because everything surrounding him was perfect. ON the highlight shows, after the postgame recap. They say how good the WR was making the play, turning nothing into something. LIke the TE made that nice ass grab that Flacco f**ked up on the throw. Even Boldin yesterday, Boldin goes in traffic, and gets the ball, regardless of too high or low. Each game this week i saw receivers dive, slide, one handed grab, passes behind. But a good, no scratch that, great WR, once again makes sumthin out of nothing.

Now i know u've never been an A.Smith fan, so i dont expect you to say anything positive about him anyway. But like the title started and said, the coaching wasnt nearly as bad as you think.

Well i'll bring up another issue, as well. Ever pay attention to how every one else's WR's seem to get more open and separation than our WR's. And many fans complained about this for the past 2 years. Goes back to even when Shaun and JTO where here. Why do our WR's get no separation. Every game other than with our team im seeing a WR open somewhere for big yardage, and this past and seasons past the QB always has to try and fit it into a small window. Yes it's the QB's job to get the ball in the position, but s**t if you can never get separation, then dont b***h when the Qb tries to get it in there, and it's either batted down, or like crab's pass, of his hands then intercepted.

Oh and before i leave, we gotta stop with this too. Im tired of people talkin about a Qb making this "look good" or that "look good". I mean please u had Chris Carter who prized himself on making the one handed grab, and our WR's cant even catch a pass that hits them in the hands. Let me tell you, you cant give me any excuse to any pass, if it hits you in the hands. Instead of our QB making our personnel look good, why cant the personnel just be good, you feel me.

I say dont make excuses for Smith. So i agree, AFTER the first half, he played horrible. But at the same time, so did the WR core, and the coaching, and the pass defense. Dont think i have to say anymore.

[ Edited by Jersey9er on Sep 14, 2010 at 11:18:05 ]

That was a really nice post, OaklandNiner.

Now that my irritation has abated somewhat and I'm able to be a bit more objective in my judgement of the game, I think your analysis is dead on. The thing that really grinds my gears though, is the fact that your post could've been transplanted into almost any thread from mid-'09 and been just as accurate as your assessment of last weekend's game.

The O-line is still ineffectual at either the running or passing game, our QB still lacks poise and mental toughness, and our pass rush looks set to follow last season's tendency toward feast or famish. In short, we saw a rusty version of last season's team, and you're correct to conclude that given such poor excecution, it makes no sense to lump the blame on the staff.

On the plus side, hopefuly the O-Line will mature sooner rather than later and the coaching staff should be able to beat the cobwebs out of our starters' heads double time. When you factor in the nerves that attend opening day (let alone an opening day on the road) and the fact that wild performance swings mark the NFL on a week by week basis, there's still cause for optimism.

Again, nice post. I've got my fingers crossed!

[ Edited by BubbaParisMVP on Sep 14, 2010 at 11:21:52 ]

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
The coaching in this game wasn't stellar...the communication problems in getting Alex the plays were awful. I also think Raye called too many running plays between the tackles that simply weren't working. He called one screen pass to Gore...and it worked. Why he didn't call it again is a mystery...that and some delays can help slow down the pass rush. The 4th down pass to Norris was a good play...but Raye had the wrong guy out there. A much better choice would've been a TE...like Byham, whom Seattle probably wouldn't have anticipated would be a primary receiver. He could've lined up at the FB position. It's true Alex slightly overthew it, but it was catchable with the right guy out there. It should've been an over-the-shoulder reception, not backpeddling where you have little control. I did like that Singletary went for it on 4th down several times in the RZ...he was trying to give the OL some confidence, but they didn't execute.

I agree. Everything starts with the poor philosophy we've installed. THEN is goes to the coaches and game pre and in-game planning. The COACHES have all the players they wanted and hand picked. This was our statement game.

Here is what good coaching can do. Here is THE difference in the NFL today on so many levels...coaching:

Seattle quarterback Matt Hasselbeck spelled it all out after the game... “We were able to come back and sort of capitalize on that a little bit because they were going to squat on our routes and they wanted to gamble like that. I give credit to (offensive coordinator) Jeremy Bates and everybody for seeing it and making the adjustments.”

This is an OC who's been OC for what, one week and HE and his coaching staff can see this? D. Walker was the only mismatch we created and then went away from it. Gore can ONLY run inside so their D exploited this. He's decent on screens but again, we never went back to it. It was very obvious the deep routes we designed to free up underneath stuff. Their D T'd off on playing agressive inside the 10 yard line and in. It's was vintage Raye/Singletary easy game planning for the D, just like last year.

Now, ask yourself this. Name ONE TIME Raye watched tape of his opponent and attacked a weakness coming into the game and in-game adjustments. Seattle came in with a great game plan, made good in-game adjustments (even after an INT) and finished the game properly. THIS is good coaching. And we don't have it...even Manusky got pwned...Clements, Brown, Lewis, no pass rush what so ever (until he brought in LeBoy in the 4th quarter, etc.) - same exact problems as last year with zero adjustments or balls to sit our slow, one-dimensional players. It's bad enough we have to run a one-gap for our NT to be successful but how do you run a 3-4 with zero pass rushers from your starters at OLB and a secondary that has been exposed d/t its total lack of speed and do nothing about it?

And don't get me started on Raye/Singletary. Collectively, we have tons of talent and potential but we may have the dumbest coaching staff in the NFL and nobody should be surprised if we go 0-5. Let me say that again, NO FAN SHOULD BE SURPRISED IF WE GO 0-5. Why? B/c we've done nothing to fix our GLARING weaknesses from last year (poor o-line, terrible OC, piss poor on the road, terrible game planning, if any at all, no adjustments in game and at half-time, always outcoached, bad at defending the screens, middle of the field, no push on short yardage at all on both sides of the line, inaccurate QB, players and coaches not on the same page, the culture is to find a way to lose, coaches and players throwing each other under the bus, special teams sucks ala Josh Morgan again, no contingency plans across the board, etc.).

Seriously, how have we improved in any of these areas? And now we have a tough schedule to start the season? Did I mention, NO FAN SHOULD BE SURPRISED IF WE START THE SEASON 0-5.

This isn't an over reaction either...all of these issues needs to be fixed THIS week. It's just not realistic

[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 14, 2010 at 11:25:10 ]

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
That was a really nice post, OaklandNiner.

Now that my irritation has abated somewhat and I'm able to be a bit more objective in my judgement of the game, I think your analysis is dead on. The thing that really grinds my gears though, is the fact that your post could've been transplanted into almost any thread from mid-'09 and been just as accurate as your assessment of last weekend's game.

The O-line is still ineffectual at either the running or passing game, our QB still lacks poise and mental toughness, and our pass rush looks set to follow last season's tendency toward feast or famish. In short, we saw a rusty version of last season's team, and you're correct to conclude that given such poor excecution, it makes no sense to lump the blame on the staff.

On the plus side, hopefuly the O-Line will mature sooner rather than later and the coaching staff should be able to beat the cobwebs out of our starters' heads double time. When you factor in the nerves that attend opening day (let alone an opening day on the road) and the fact that wild performance swings mark the NFL on a week by week basis, there's still cause for optimism.

Again, nice post. I've got my fingers crossed!

i absolutely love irony !
more of this please

NCommand,

As you recall, one of last year's running jokes about Raye was "we want second half Jimmy Raye calling the first half." He has a decent enough track record for making adjustments. As for last weekend's game, he seemed to show up with a halfway decent game plan until everything went to pot. And, as has been explained in this thread, things went pear shaped largely because of poor execution on the field.

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
NCommand,

As you recall, one of last year's running jokes about Raye was "we want second half Jimmy Raye calling the first half." He has a decent enough track record for making adjustments. As for last weekend's game, he seemed to show up with a halfway decent game plan until everything went to pot. And, as has been explained in this thread, things went pear shaped largely because of poor execution on the field.

That's a great line! I don't consider an OC having to change to a spread last year b/c we're down 4 TD's "making an adjustment." This is something we HAD to do last year, eve with Shaun Hill making a couple miracle comebacks in the 4th for us to squeak out a win. This is all philosophy and poor coaching. That's not to dismiss the obvious piss poor execution by the players; not at all. But a good coach puts his best players in the best position to succeed. We don't have that kind of coaching. Period. 4th and an inch? You QB sneak. You want a sneak pass off the line on 4th down when everyone is expecting a run? Good call but you use a player who has hands and NOT the player with the worst documented hands on the team. Period. I can go on for hours about how we consistently get outcoached, good players continue to be put in bad situations and talent rarely is used properly. But sadly, all you need to do is watch the opponents to see the glaring differences between an NFL coaching staff with common sense and ours. Of the aforementioned issues I noted, at the end of the day, none of these issues have been fixed in any way from 2009 and a whole off-season to fix them. It's not like the coaching staff didn't know what our GLARING weaknesses were...they had their work cut out for them and even the most ignorant and uneducated fan can spot them. This year...2010...is all about the coaching. I can't stress that enough.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
NCommand,

As you recall, one of last year's running jokes about Raye was "we want second half Jimmy Raye calling the first half." He has a decent enough track record for making adjustments. As for last weekend's game, he seemed to show up with a halfway decent game plan until everything went to pot. And, as has been explained in this thread, things went pear shaped largely because of poor execution on the field.

That's a great line! I don't consider an OC having to change to a spread last year b/c we're down 4 TD's "making an adjustment." This is something we HAD to do last year, eve with Shaun Hill making a couple miracle comebacks in the 4th for us to squeak out a win. This is all philosophy and poor coaching. That's not to dismiss the obvious piss poor execution by the players; not at all. But a good coach puts his best players in the best position to succeed. We don't have that kind of coaching. Period. 4th and an inch? You QB sneak. You want a sneak pass off the line on 4th down when everyone is expecting a run? Good call but you use a player who has hands and NOT the player with the worst documented hands on the team. Period. I can go on for hours about how we consistently get outcoached, good players continue to be put in bad situations and talent rarely is used properly. But sadly, all you need to do is watch the opponents to see the glaring differences between an NFL coaching staff with common sense and ours. Of the aforementioned issues I noted, at the end of the day, none of these issues have been fixed in any way from 2009 and a whole off-season to fix them. It's not like the coaching staff didn't know what our GLARING weaknesses were...they had their work cut out for them and even the most ignorant and uneducated fan can spot them. This year...2010...is all about the coaching. I can't stress that enough.

I agree with most of these points and definitely with poor coaching , poor adjustments , lack of creativity , and downright stubborness. Then I have to add into the mix that players once again didn't execute too. It was ugly and I hope I don't have to see it again this season ...... once was enough.