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Move David Baas to center

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

I give up. I seriously need a better prescription or I'm moving my eyes up one line as they move across the row. Looked at it 3 times before and still got 2007 and looked at it now and you're right.

Well, props to Heittman for starting 2006, but we still couldn't get the short yardage that year.

Yeah. And again, there's a reason Heitmann isn't moving. It's no coincidence that Heitmann does exceptionally well when he goes one on one against nose tackles when we play 3-4 teams (such as the New York Jets, cited by MD). You mentioned issues when he has to help against 4-man fronts. That tells me our guards aren't doing their jobs, and that it's not him missing assignments. It's my opinion that he's not having any sort of bad play masked (at least most of the time) if he has proven to display great work in 1 on 1 against 3-4 teams, yet our guards have performed poorly regardless.

When we go up against 3-4 teams don't the guards chip block the NT? I do believe they do. And then the guards pick up a blitz or stay on to help. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we strugle more against 4-3 teams then 3-4 teams? I'm working straight off of memory there, but if I remember correctly most pressure came from a blitz down the middle against a 4-3 front. So in those cases heitmann is the one missing blocks while the guards are locked on to someone. That would put heitmann in space vs a blocker, limited space but still space. And as MD has pointed out via our sport writers, that's when he struggles the most.

As for MD on other players
Battle- per MD he is our best WR (before crabtree came in)...
Crabtree- per MD he will never be a 49er, and all the writers are retarded sell outs being paid off by the 49ers for saying he will eventually
Brooks- per MD he is a waste of a player and should not have a roster spit anywhere in the NFL, thi player is garbage
Sopoaga- Per MD, everyone who Doesnt know how to spell his name is retarded, per MD it is spelled Soapoaga
A Smith- per MD he will be decent but not with the niners after 2008

those are the comments MD has made that I remember, I don't recall a commen about VD though...

One more thing back to Heitmann. If you go back and check I do believe we run the ball better when Wragge was at center (and Baas came into the game at guard) back in the day. Wragge and Baas are mailers and improved the ypr
Heitman should retire
There's a simple solution...and it has nothing to do w/Baas...who, just for the record has exactly half a college season at the position. The answer is to draft Maurkice Pouncey...dude is Newberry-sized, and the best C in the country. He can also play OG and RT...so would be a tremendous value pick. New OL Coach Solari has proven he can coach up rookies to be starters, but in Pouncey's case, that's not necessary. He can learn from Heitmann...and take over when he's ready.
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Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
There's a simple solution...and it has nothing to do w/Baas...who, just for the record has exactly half a college season at the position. The answer is to draft Maurkice Pouncey...dude is Newberry-sized, and the best C in the country. He can also play OG and RT...so would be a tremendous value pick. New OL Coach Solari has proven he can coach up rookies to be starters, but in Pouncey's case, that's not necessary. He can learn from Heitmann...and take over when he's ready.

If we drafted Pouncey I'd rather we let him compete at one of the OG spots from day 1 and eventually slide him over to center when Heitmann's time comes.
Heitman needs to hit the roids during the off season and he'll be ok. Good technique lousy strength.
Originally posted by smashmouth51:
Heitman needs to hit the roids during the off season and he'll be ok. Good technique lousy strength.

This, haha
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

I give up. I seriously need a better prescription or I'm moving my eyes up one line as they move across the row. Looked at it 3 times before and still got 2007 and looked at it now and you're right.

Well, props to Heittman for starting 2006, but we still couldn't get the short yardage that year.

Yeah. And again, there's a reason Heitmann isn't moving. It's no coincidence that Heitmann does exceptionally well when he goes one on one against nose tackles when we play 3-4 teams (such as the New York Jets, cited by MD). You mentioned issues when he has to help against 4-man fronts. That tells me our guards aren't doing their jobs, and that it's not him missing assignments. It's my opinion that he's not having any sort of bad play masked (at least most of the time) if he has proven to display great work in 1 on 1 against 3-4 teams, yet our guards have performed poorly regardless.

When we go up against 3-4 teams don't the guards chip block the NT? I do believe they do. And then the guards pick up a blitz or stay on to help. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we strugle more against 4-3 teams then 3-4 teams? I'm working straight off of memory there, but if I remember correctly most pressure came from a blitz down the middle against a 4-3 front. So in those cases heitmann is the one missing blocks while the guards are locked on to someone. That would put heitmann in space vs a blocker, limited space but still space. And as MD has pointed out via our sport writers, that's when he struggles the most.

As for MD on other players
Battle- per MD he is our best WR (before crabtree came in)...
Crabtree- per MD he will never be a 49er, and all the writers are retarded sell outs being paid off by the 49ers for saying he will eventually
Brooks- per MD he is a waste of a player and should not have a roster spit anywhere in the NFL, thi player is garbage
Sopoaga- Per MD, everyone who Doesnt know how to spell his name is retarded, per MD it is spelled Soapoaga
A Smith- per MD he will be decent but not with the niners after 2008

those are the comments MD has made that I remember, I don't recall a commen about VD though...

One more thing back to Heitmann. If you go back and check I do believe we run the ball better when Wragge was at center (and Baas came into the game at guard) back in the day. Wragge and Baas are mailers and improved the ypr

Uh, nice collection of lies. But, thanks for trying. Here was my real assessment on each player: the good, bad and ugly.

At least be honest with your statements of what I have previously said.

First, regarding Battle. I never stated Battle was the best receiver on our team before Crabtree joined the club. I stated that he led the team through 8 games in receptions in 2008, before going down with injuries. This was all in reference to the Zeigler vs. Battle thread (which anyone can reference), in which I said that Battle was the one who would make the team (which was true to many people's sadness) and that Hill was no automatic (which was also true, as he was nearly cut). So, I hit that one completely on the money.

Second, once again, I never stated Crabtree would not be on the team. I was more than accurate in stating on the day of the draft that he would be a problem to sign, and would not report to camp on time. I projected an August 15th signing (in which I was more than a month off), but was well after camp began. When contract negotiations looked bad, I said it was more than a 50% chance that Parker and the Niners would not get a deal done. I never said he would never wear the uniform. I never said the beatwriters are "retarded sellouts". First, I never criticized MB. Second, I did criticize MM for taking the side of management on his Twitter page.

As for Brooks, I never said he "should not have a roster spit" (nice spelling of spot). I said he was a turd, and that if he made the team, it was an indictment against the quality of our OLB's. He very much outplayed my expectations of him (I have already given him credit in 2009. At times, he looked terrific.)

Fourth, I have never spelled Sopoaga's name wrong to my knowledge. The truth be told, I am the one usually bashing people for not knowing how to spell his name. For the record, your writing is littered with numerous spelling mistakes.

Finally, for Alex Smith, I cannot recall when I said that "he will be decent but not with the niners after 2008". Could it have been in 2005? 2006? 2007? If you mean 2010, then I was actually correct in my assessment. This past offseason, in my preview of the year thread (which was pretty damn accurate), I stated that the team would know their 2010 starter after the 2009 year, whether Hill takes charge, or Smith replaces him.

As for VD, I have referred to him as "Fool's Gold" as his nickname in the past. As in the case with Brooks, he played much better than I expected in 2009.

Hopefully that sets the record straight.

Now, onto the real topic: Every time you lose an argument, as in this thread, you resort to changing the subject to attack my previous posts in the past, in order to discredit me. If you dig deep enough, since I make scores of predictions, you will find errors. I have listed just a few. At the same time, you will find that I am usually spot on with my assessment.

In other words, there is no reason to make up lies about my previous statements. You can find my inaccurate predictions. In fact, next time, just ask me. I'll give you a list of when I have been wrong. Just be fair in your representation of statements I have made in the past.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Jan 25, 2010 at 2:17 PM ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by solidg2000:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

I give up. I seriously need a better prescription or I'm moving my eyes up one line as they move across the row. Looked at it 3 times before and still got 2007 and looked at it now and you're right.

Well, props to Heittman for starting 2006, but we still couldn't get the short yardage that year.

Yeah. And again, there's a reason Heitmann isn't moving. It's no coincidence that Heitmann does exceptionally well when he goes one on one against nose tackles when we play 3-4 teams (such as the New York Jets, cited by MD). You mentioned issues when he has to help against 4-man fronts. That tells me our guards aren't doing their jobs, and that it's not him missing assignments. It's my opinion that he's not having any sort of bad play masked (at least most of the time) if he has proven to display great work in 1 on 1 against 3-4 teams, yet our guards have performed poorly regardless.

When we go up against 3-4 teams don't the guards chip block the NT? I do believe they do. And then the guards pick up a blitz or stay on to help. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we strugle more against 4-3 teams then 3-4 teams? I'm working straight off of memory there, but if I remember correctly most pressure came from a blitz down the middle against a 4-3 front. So in those cases heitmann is the one missing blocks while the guards are locked on to someone. That would put heitmann in space vs a blocker, limited space but still space. And as MD has pointed out via our sport writers, that's when he struggles the most.

As for MD on other players
Battle- per MD he is our best WR (before crabtree came in)...
Crabtree- per MD he will never be a 49er, and all the writers are retarded sell outs being paid off by the 49ers for saying he will eventually
Brooks- per MD he is a waste of a player and should not have a roster spit anywhere in the NFL, thi player is garbage
Sopoaga- Per MD, everyone who Doesnt know how to spell his name is retarded, per MD it is spelled Soapoaga
A Smith- per MD he will be decent but not with the niners after 2008

those are the comments MD has made that I remember, I don't recall a commen about VD though...

One more thing back to Heitmann. If you go back and check I do believe we run the ball better when Wragge was at center (and Baas came into the game at guard) back in the day. Wragge and Baas are mailers and improved the ypr

Uh, nice collection of lies. But, thanks for trying. Here was my real assessment on each player: the good, bad and ugly.

At least be honest with your statements of what I have previously said.

First, regarding Battle. I never stated Battle was the best receiver on our team before Crabtree joined the club. I stated that he led the team through 8 games in receptions in 2008, before going down with injuries. This was all in reference to the Zeigler vs. Battle thread (which anyone can reference), in which I said that Battle was the one who would make the team (which was true to many people's sadness) and that Hill was no automatic (which was also true, as he was nearly cut). So, I hit that one completely on the money.

Second, once again, I never stated Crabtree would not be on the team. I was more than accurate in stating on the day of the draft that he would be a problem to sign, and would not report to camp on time. I projected an August 15th signing (in which I was more than a month off), but was well after camp began. When contract negotiations looked bad, I said it was more than a 50% chance that Parker and the Niners would not get a deal done. I never said he would never wear the uniform. I never said the beatwriters are "retarded sellouts". First, I never criticized MB. Second, I did criticize MM for taking the side of management on his Twitter page.

As for Brooks, I never said he "should not have a roster spit" (nice spelling of spot). I said he was a turd, and that if he made the team, it was an indictment against the quality of our OLB's. He very much outplayed my expectations of him (I have already given him credit in 2009. At times, he looked terrific.)

Fourth, I have never spelled Sopoaga's name wrong to my knowledge. The truth be told, I am the one usually bashing people for not knowing how to spell his name. For the record, your writing is littered with numerous spelling mistakes.

Finally, for Alex Smith, I cannot recall when I said that "he will be decent but not with the niners after 2008". Could it have been in 2005? 2006? 2007? If you mean 2010, then I was actually correct in my assessment. This past offseason, in my preview of the year thread (which was pretty damn accurate), I stated that the team would know their 2010 starter after the 2009 year, whether Hill takes charge, or Smith replaces him.

As for VD, I have referred to him as "Fool's Gold" as his nickname in the past. As in the case with Brooks, he played much better than I expected in 2009.

Hopefully that sets the record straight.

Now, onto the real topic: Every time you lose an argument, as in this thread, you resort to changing the subject to attack my previous posts in the past, in order to discredit me. If you dig deep enough, since I make scores of predictions, you will find errors. I have listed just a few. At the same time, you will find that I am usually spot on with my assessment.

In other words, there is no reason to make up lies about my previous statements. You can find my inaccurate predictions. In fact, next time, just ask me. I'll give you a list of when I have been wrong. Just be fair in your representation of statements I have made in the past.

Seeee. All cleared up.
FINALLY, Baas is getting some looks at center where I think he is better suited to play and I think in time with some more reps and game action, he could be an upgrade over Eric Heitman.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
While Adam Snyder was clearly the main weak link of a bad O-Line, I think Eric Heitman was also a weak link and has been the last few years. I would like to see the team at least consider moving Baas to center a posistion he played some at Michigan and a lot of teams and scouts had Baas projected as a better center than OG coming out of Michigan.

Sign a solid vetran LG and a O-Line of Staley-Vetran OG-Baas-Rachal-Bulaga (or another draft pick) looks pretty good.

You ARE kidding?

Aren't you?

Seriously?

Do you truly believe Eric Heitmann is the weak link in the offensive line?

For real?



I have read some of your other posts and you seem like a reasonably knowledgeable guy but this I don't get at all. You CAN"T be watching the same games I am. Please go to the thread I put up this morning on the OL play-by-play analysis of the Ram game. Read through it as you re-watch the tape of the game, if you recorded it. When you are finished come back and report.

Heitmann is f**king awful dude. Why the hell do you think we're trying other people out at center!? HAHA
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
While Adam Snyder was clearly the main weak link of a bad O-Line, I think Eric Heitman was also a weak link and has been the last few years. I would like to see the team at least consider moving Baas to center a posistion he played some at Michigan and a lot of teams and scouts had Baas projected as a better center than OG coming out of Michigan.

Sign a solid vetran LG and a O-Line of Staley-Vetran OG-Baas-Rachal-Bulaga (or another draft pick) looks pretty good.

You ARE kidding?

Aren't you?

Seriously?

Do you truly believe Eric Heitmann is the weak link in the offensive line?

For real?



I have read some of your other posts and you seem like a reasonably knowledgeable guy but this I don't get at all. You CAN"T be watching the same games I am. Please go to the thread I put up this morning on the OL play-by-play analysis of the Ram game. Read through it as you re-watch the tape of the game, if you recorded it. When you are finished come back and report.

Heitmann is f**king awful dude. Why the hell do you think we're trying other people out at center!? HAHA

So Solari can decide who is the best to back up Heitmann. I thought that was obvious.
Originally posted by OKC49erFan:
Originally posted by WheresWaldo:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
While Adam Snyder was clearly the main weak link of a bad O-Line, I think Eric Heitman was also a weak link and has been the last few years. I would like to see the team at least consider moving Baas to center a posistion he played some at Michigan and a lot of teams and scouts had Baas projected as a better center than OG coming out of Michigan.

Sign a solid vetran LG and a O-Line of Staley-Vetran OG-Baas-Rachal-Bulaga (or another draft pick) looks pretty good.

You ARE kidding?

Aren't you?

Seriously?

Do you truly believe Eric Heitmann is the weak link in the offensive line?

For real?



I have read some of your other posts and you seem like a reasonably knowledgeable guy but this I don't get at all. You CAN"T be watching the same games I am. Please go to the thread I put up this morning on the OL play-by-play analysis of the Ram game. Read through it as you re-watch the tape of the game, if you recorded it. When you are finished come back and report.

Heitmann is f**king awful dude. Why the hell do you think we're trying other people out at center!? HAHA

So Solari can decide who is the best to back up Heitmann. I thought that was obvious.

You are plowing the sea, my friend. There are way too many stupid people (about 5 on this board) who actually think that Heitmann (ONCE AGAIN EVERYONE, THERE ARE TWO "N" LETTERS IN HEITMANN) is a problem, and will be replaced.

I'm still looking for one sportswriter, coach, scout, analyst who thinks Heitmann is a problem. From every report I read last year (I can't tell you how many I've linked on just this thread alone), he was our top OL. However, there are still people out there (once again, just a handful) that think the earth is square.
Bass will blossom at center.
Originally posted by pelos21:
Bass will blossom at center.

Could happen, but he very likely won't be pushing out Heitmann any time soon. #66 is not an overpowering mauler, I admit, but he's one of the better OC's in the league. I think he has to take away from his job to assist his fellow guards, so sometimes, that adversely affects what he is asked to accomplish.

SF is mixing in players at OC to determine their overall worth (versatility) to the team. This will make things more clear to the F/O as to who needs to be axed to fit the tight, 53 man limit.
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by pelos21:
Bass will blossom at center.

People forget that Baas was an All-American center coming out of Michigan. He should be a good replacement for Heitman when he retires.
[ Edited by mayo63 on May 20, 2010 at 8:55 AM ]
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