Move David Baas to center

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?

Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder

59-Cody Wallace: Played three different positions on offense. He first entered as an eligible tight end on a goal-line situation. He was on the field at right guard, and that's where Gore took his 1-yard touchdown run when Rachal had to leave the game. Then, he finished up at center.

Jus sayin...

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just find it STUPID that the people who are furious about our OL target the best player on the line to bench. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I did say the word STUPID.

As for the "I'm done with Hymen"..........who the blank cares what YOU think. The team, scouts, coaches, players, the league seems to think he's pretty good...............so who cares what you think. Like your opinion matters to the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

Once again, this is one of these cases where a fan tosses his mind out the window due to a prejudice against a player, and no matter if God Almighty came down from heaven and declared the truth, this person would still put their head in the sand. I'm sure with every article stating that Heitmann had a good year, a consistent year, a solid performance in 2009, it must be like nails on a chalkboard.

The defense of this unintelligent form of thinking that nobody else connected to football believes....nothing. There is no argument, just name calling. Or..."David Baas was a great center, in college, back 6 years ago"...Once again, BRILLIANT!!! Let me add the equally brilliant, "Back in, uh, 2007, he uh, stunk". Two points for Club Mensa. First, that was three seasons ago. Who the blank cares about what happened three, five, ten, or twenty years ago. This only exposes your anger and bias, which completely clouds any intellectual form of thought. Second, there was thing called an injury. I know it must be completely incomprehensible, but Heitmann did not play at a high level in 2007.....because....he...was....drumroll...injured. But, once again....WHO THE BLANK CARES ABOUT 2007?

The bottom line is that the people who do understand football, and don't base their player personnel decisions on some mindless bias, don't think Heitmann is a problem at all. In fact, I can't find one writer, coach, GM, scout, donkey, or waterboy to say he is a problem.

Bias bites! The truth hurts!!

P.S. Just admit that you have no idea what you are talking about, concede defeat, and move on. Your insistance to argue this nonsensical, stupid point is self-mutilation. And, damn embarrassing. I invite the board to the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" thread I started last year that humiliated the same people who are bringing back this assinine argument this year due their bias.

The latest is cheering for the new offensive coordinator to "expose" Heitmann. How? By showing the world the "mercurial, fleet of foot" Baas over the "slow, stumbling" Heitmann. The hits just keep on coming.

Too funny. You want I should start naming off guys you hate and are plying better than you give them credit for MadDog? Like How bout Vernon Davis? Alex Smith?

And NEWSFLASH! *bip di dip de dip de dip* I'm not basing the want of change on a college peformance. I'm basing it on that he was DRAFTED to BE the Center.

Hymen sucks. Can't I prove that to you? Not without photographic proof. But the man was SUPPOSEDLY the best intelligent Center in our unit. This is for Zone Blocking. Well guess what our Zone blocking minded OL Coach packed his bags and is on a plane headed to DC. His belongings soon to follow in a Mayflower rig.

Foerster.

There are NO MORE excuses for Hymen. He's still a hell of a Guard and I want to see him return to that role. He SUCKED as a Center.

It's no coinkydink that the whole unit sucks when the man is left at a standstill right from the snap.

I know of one time(there HAVE been more than that) where the DT ran right by him and took his frustrations out on our QB. Hymen didn't even see him though the guy ran right by him on his left side like he was wearing blinders.

So every time you come her and fist thump your chest about how great he is I'm going to say this.

ROCKY F'N BERNARD.

Is it a coinkydink that Foerster left the team? Could be. But I doubt it. I think that Sing has identified what the weak links are and is dealing with them.

"coach Mike Singletary saying after one game, “We got our tails whipped up front.”

Oh yeah hmmmm sounds like protection and run blocking schemse were a failure in that game.

Sorry MD but you are so out in left field on this it's able.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Captain:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by PatrickJira411:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?

Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder

59-Cody Wallace: Played three different positions on offense. He first entered as an eligible tight end on a goal-line situation. He was on the field at right guard, and that's where Gore took his 1-yard touchdown run when Rachal had to leave the game. Then, he finished up at center.

Jus sayin...

Naw good catch. I should have been more thorough in the research. Doesn't make much difference though since they were OBVIOUSLY trying anything they could to shore up the middle. Right?

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just find it STUPID that the people who are furious about our OL target the best player on the line to bench. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I did say the word STUPID.

As for the "I'm done with Hymen"..........who the blank cares what YOU think. The team, scouts, coaches, players, the league seems to think he's pretty good...............so who cares what you think. Like your opinion matters to the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

Once again, this is one of these cases where a fan tosses his mind out the window due to a prejudice against a player, and no matter if God Almighty came down from heaven and declared the truth, this person would still put their head in the sand. I'm sure with every article stating that Heitmann had a good year, a consistent year, a solid performance in 2009, it must be like nails on a chalkboard.

The defense of this unintelligent form of thinking that nobody else connected to football believes....nothing. There is no argument, just name calling. Or..."David Baas was a great center, in college, back 6 years ago"...Once again, BRILLIANT!!! Let me add the equally brilliant, "Back in, uh, 2007, he uh, stunk". Two points for Club Mensa. First, that was three seasons ago. Who the blank cares about what happened three, five, ten, or twenty years ago. This only exposes your anger and bias, which completely clouds any intellectual form of thought. Second, there was thing called an injury. I know it must be completely incomprehensible, but Heitmann did not play at a high level in 2007.....because....he...was....drumroll...injured. But, once again....WHO THE BLANK CARES ABOUT 2007?

The bottom line is that the people who do understand football, and don't base their player personnel decisions on some mindless bias, don't think Heitmann is a problem at all. In fact, I can't find one writer, coach, GM, scout, donkey, or waterboy to say he is a problem.

Bias bites! The truth hurts!!

P.S. Just admit that you have no idea what you are talking about, concede defeat, and move on. Your insistance to argue this nonsensical, stupid point is self-mutilation. And, damn embarrassing. I invite the board to the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" thread I started last year that humiliated the same people who are bringing back this assinine argument this year due their bias.

The latest is cheering for the new offensive coordinator to "expose" Heitmann. How? By showing the world the "mercurial, fleet of foot" Baas over the "slow, stumbling" Heitmann. The hits just keep on coming.

Too funny. You want I should start naming off guys you hate and are plying better than you give them credit for MadDog? Like How bout Vernon Davis? Alex Smith?

And NEWSFLASH! *bip di dip de dip de dip* I'm not basing the want of change on a college peformance. I'm basing it on that he was DRAFTED to BE the Center.

Hymen sucks. Can't I prove that to you? Not without photographic proof. But the man was SUPPOSEDLY the best intelligent Center in our unit. This is for Zone Blocking. Well guess what our Zone blocking minded OL Coach packed his bags and is on a plane headed to DC. His belongings soon to follow in a Mayflower rig.

Foerster.

There are NO MORE excuses for Hymen. He's still a hell of a Guard and I want to see him return to that role. He SUCKED as a Center.

It's no coinkydink that the whole unit sucks when the man is left at a standstill right from the snap.

I know of one time(there HAVE been more than that) where the DT ran right by him and took his frustrations out on our QB. Hymen didn't even see him though the guy ran right by him on his left side like he was wearing blinders.

So every time you come her and fist thump your chest about how great he is I'm going to say this.

ROCKY F'N BERNARD.

Is it a coinkydink that Foerster left the team? Could be. But I doubt it. I think that Sing has identified what the weak links are and is dealing with them.

"coach Mike Singletary saying after one game, “We got our tails whipped up front.”

Oh yeah hmmmm sounds like protection and run blocking schemse were a failure in that game.

Sorry MD but you are so out in left field on this it's able.

~Ceadder

I'm out in left field? I have provided in the last year (in this thread and the Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player thread more than ten writers/coaches/scouts who think Heitmann is a good player and a good center (Maiocco, Barrows, Sando, Singletary, the beat writers in NY after he demolished Jenkins last year, Martz, etc.), and is just fine at center. To prove your argument, you have provided a grand total of..............none. So, you tell me who is in left field?

My point is this: You have a vendetta against him. You cannot shake the Seahawks game................. from nearly 3 YEARS AGO. In fact, every time you begin an argument, you have to include Rocky Bernard. IT WAS 3 YEARS AGO. Just agree with the experts who cover the team, coach the team, and concede defeat that there is nothing wrong with Heitmann.

You are a lone wolf out there, and that fact is backed up by every review by the guys who follow the team.

Nobody on this board can take you seriously if you hold to this position. And, it is a shame, because you have allowed anger from an event 3 YEARS AGO to completely cloud your thinking about his play today.

I can't believe this argument's still going on...whatever, here's my solution:

- Leave Heitmann at C...no matter the opinions in this forum, he's one of the brightest anchors in the NFL.

- Draft Maurkice Pouncey. He's not only the best C in the draft, he can also play OG and RT.

- If there's no new CBA, they might want to re-sign Baas for 1-2 years. Logan Mankins would be great, but he'll be a RFA vice an UFA and would cost a minimum of a 1st rd pick.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just find it STUPID that the people who are furious about our OL target the best player on the line to bench. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I did say the word STUPID.

As for the "I'm done with Hymen"..........who the blank cares what YOU think. The team, scouts, coaches, players, the league seems to think he's pretty good...............so who cares what you think. Like your opinion matters to the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

Once again, this is one of these cases where a fan tosses his mind out the window due to a prejudice against a player, and no matter if God Almighty came down from heaven and declared the truth, this person would still put their head in the sand. I'm sure with every article stating that Heitmann had a good year, a consistent year, a solid performance in 2009, it must be like nails on a chalkboard.

The defense of this unintelligent form of thinking that nobody else connected to football believes....nothing. There is no argument, just name calling. Or..."David Baas was a great center, in college, back 6 years ago"...Once again, BRILLIANT!!! Let me add the equally brilliant, "Back in, uh, 2007, he uh, stunk". Two points for Club Mensa. First, that was three seasons ago. Who the blank cares about what happened three, five, ten, or twenty years ago. This only exposes your anger and bias, which completely clouds any intellectual form of thought. Second, there was thing called an injury. I know it must be completely incomprehensible, but Heitmann did not play at a high level in 2007.....because....he...was....drumroll...injured. But, once again....WHO THE BLANK CARES ABOUT 2007?

The bottom line is that the people who do understand football, and don't base their player personnel decisions on some mindless bias, don't think Heitmann is a problem at all. In fact, I can't find one writer, coach, GM, scout, donkey, or waterboy to say he is a problem.

Bias bites! The truth hurts!!

P.S. Just admit that you have no idea what you are talking about, concede defeat, and move on. Your insistance to argue this nonsensical, stupid point is self-mutilation. And, damn embarrassing. I invite the board to the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" thread I started last year that humiliated the same people who are bringing back this assinine argument this year due their bias.

The latest is cheering for the new offensive coordinator to "expose" Heitmann. How? By showing the world the "mercurial, fleet of foot" Baas over the "slow, stumbling" Heitmann. The hits just keep on coming.

Too funny. You want I should start naming off guys you hate and are plying better than you give them credit for MadDog? Like How bout Vernon Davis? Alex Smith?

And NEWSFLASH! *bip di dip de dip de dip* I'm not basing the want of change on a college peformance. I'm basing it on that he was DRAFTED to BE the Center.

Hymen sucks. Can't I prove that to you? Not without photographic proof. But the man was SUPPOSEDLY the best intelligent Center in our unit. This is for Zone Blocking. Well guess what our Zone blocking minded OL Coach packed his bags and is on a plane headed to DC. His belongings soon to follow in a Mayflower rig.

Foerster.

There are NO MORE excuses for Hymen. He's still a hell of a Guard and I want to see him return to that role. He SUCKED as a Center.

It's no coinkydink that the whole unit sucks when the man is left at a standstill right from the snap.

I know of one time(there HAVE been more than that) where the DT ran right by him and took his frustrations out on our QB. Hymen didn't even see him though the guy ran right by him on his left side like he was wearing blinders.

So every time you come her and fist thump your chest about how great he is I'm going to say this.

ROCKY F'N BERNARD.

Is it a coinkydink that Foerster left the team? Could be. But I doubt it. I think that Sing has identified what the weak links are and is dealing with them.

"coach Mike Singletary saying after one game, “We got our tails whipped up front.”

Oh yeah hmmmm sounds like protection and run blocking schemse were a failure in that game.

Sorry MD but you are so out in left field on this it's able.

~Ceadder

I'm out in left field? I have provided in the last year (in this thread and the Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player thread more than ten writers/coaches/scouts who think Heitmann is a good player and a good center (Maiocco, Barrows, Sando, Singletary, the beat writers in NY after he demolished Jenkins last year, Martz, etc.), and is just fine at center. To prove your argument, you have provided a grand total of..............none. So, you tell me who is in left field?

My point is this: You have a vendetta against him. You cannot shake the Seahawks game................. from nearly 3 YEARS AGO. In fact, every time you begin an argument, you have to include Rocky Bernard. IT WAS 3 YEARS AGO. Just agree with the experts who cover the team, coach the team, and concede defeat that there is nothing wrong with Heitmann.

You are a lone wolf out there, and that fact is backed up by every review by the guys who follow the team.

Nobody on this board can take you seriously if you hold to this position. And, it is a shame, because you have allowed anger from an event 3 YEARS AGO to completely cloud your thinking about his play today.

It has been 3 years now since teams have been getting consistent pressure up the middle. In 2006, Newberry started at Center and teams weren't bursting up the middle. Eric starting in 2007 was when teams loaded the box with run blitzes and destroyed the middle of our line and that was when Gore began to have difficulties up the middle and still has ever since. Let me remind you that Larry Allen went from a pro bowler in 2006 to utter crap when Eric became the starting Center. You don't go from blocking like a King one year to missing major assignments the next.

Since 2007, teams have been owning us up the middle. At least in 2006, our only weak link was Kwame.

Eric is an average AT BEST Center from what has happened on the field.

Oh no maddog I gues I'm not the only person in the world who think heitmann needs to be replaced at C. Guess your wrong again!

You must be getting used to it.

Still I think your biggest fail is your evaluation of Sidney Rice!
So who predicted he was ganna be one of the top WRs in the NFL?
And
Who said he was a bust?

It's ok just add it to your list of fail
Crabtree
battle
Brooks
...
Just to name a few

If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

[ Edited by OnTheClock on Jan 23, 2010 at 21:29:07 ]

I am so sick of hearing "he's not good but solid" about too many of our players. I want to hear more "he's very good and almost pro bowl level" about more of our starters.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

I give up. I seriously need a better prescription or I'm moving my eyes up one line as they move across the row. Looked at it 3 times before and still got 2007 and looked at it now and you're right.

Well, props to Heittman for starting 2006, but we still couldn't get the short yardage that year.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

I give up. I seriously need a better prescription or I'm moving my eyes up one line as they move across the row. Looked at it 3 times before and still got 2007 and looked at it now and you're right.

Well, props to Heittman for starting 2006, but we still couldn't get the short yardage that year.

Yeah. And again, there's a reason Heitmann isn't moving. It's no coincidence that Heitmann does exceptionally well when he goes one on one against nose tackles when we play 3-4 teams (such as the New York Jets, cited by MD). You mentioned issues when he has to help against 4-man fronts. That tells me our guards aren't doing their jobs, and that it's not him missing assignments. It's my opinion that he's not having any sort of bad play masked (at least most of the time) if he has proven to display great work in 1 on 1 against 3-4 teams, yet our guards have performed poorly regardless.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If I recall.. the only reason Baas played center some of his senior year was due to an injury to Michigan's starting center.

Let's not make this about Heitmann.. Okay, nevermind, it's too late for that.

I see a lot of people angry with MD. That's fine, but I'm seeing people make remarks saying he's "bashed" players that I never have recalled MD saying were bad players -- such as Vernon, Alex, Crabtree, etc... Now, Brooks -- yeah, off on that one. So if you're going to attack, at least make it legitimate instead of throwing out falsehoods to try and strengthen your argument.

Heitmann has indeed been praised by analysts at times, that is a fact.

However, my personal take? Heitmann has been solid but unspectacular. A better guard than Baas yes, but we just don't have any better options. We don't have any great prospective Centers on the roster, nor are there really any available. Pro Bowl centers don't grow on trees.

Could we upgrade over Heitmann? Sure. But the left and right guard spots have played the worst. I'd get talent there first.

Also it's been reported that Heitmann played at a near pro-bowl level when we had guys like Larry Allen at LG and Justin Smiley/David Baas at RG.

Just because you plug one hole doesn't mean the bottle isn't going to leak with two holes next to it.

Upgrade the LG and RG play quality (either coaching or players), and you basically upgrade the whole unit.

I still find it odd that Larry Allen and the inside of our Offensive Line began playing poor when Heittman became the starting Center, which was 2007. Our front 3 have been weak ever since.

I just feel that the Center's faults are hidden much more. Most Defenses play a front 4 which usually means Heittman must help someone somewhere yet repeatedly has the defense easily sipped through the gaps on either side of him. This wasn't an issue when Newberry was Center. The only issue when Newberry was Center was Kwame Harris.

So, you don't think it's a coincidence that the middle of our Line began playing like crap, even Larry Allen, AFTER Heittman became the starter?

As for who can we put there who is better? You don't know until you try and other players should be tried at that spot to see if they are more comfortable at that position similar to Barry Simms going from the gutter at RT to top level type of play at LT.

Didn't Heitmann start at center in 2006?

I give up. I seriously need a better prescription or I'm moving my eyes up one line as they move across the row. Looked at it 3 times before and still got 2007 and looked at it now and you're right.

Well, props to Heittman for starting 2006, but we still couldn't get the short yardage that year.

Yeah. And again, there's a reason Heitmann isn't moving. It's no coincidence that Heitmann does exceptionally well when he goes one on one against nose tackles when we play 3-4 teams (such as the New York Jets, cited by MD). You mentioned issues when he has to help against 4-man fronts. That tells me our guards aren't doing their jobs, and that it's not him missing assignments. It's my opinion that he's not having any sort of bad play masked (at least most of the time) if he has proven to display great work in 1 on 1 against 3-4 teams, yet our guards have performed poorly regardless.

When we go up against 3-4 teams don't the guards chip block the NT? I do believe they do. And then the guards pick up a blitz or stay on to help. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we strugle more against 4-3 teams then 3-4 teams? I'm working straight off of memory there, but if I remember correctly most pressure came from a blitz down the middle against a 4-3 front. So in those cases heitmann is the one missing blocks while the guards are locked on to someone. That would put heitmann in space vs a blocker, limited space but still space. And as MD has pointed out via our sport writers, that's when he struggles the most.

As for MD on other players
Battle- per MD he is our best WR (before crabtree came in)...
Crabtree- per MD he will never be a 49er, and all the writers are retarded sell outs being paid off by the 49ers for saying he will eventually
Brooks- per MD he is a waste of a player and should not have a roster spit anywhere in the NFL, thi player is garbage
Sopoaga- Per MD, everyone who Doesnt know how to spell his name is retarded, per MD it is spelled Soapoaga
A Smith- per MD he will be decent but not with the niners after 2008

those are the comments MD has made that I remember, I don't recall a commen about VD though...

One more thing back to Heitmann. If you go back and check I do believe we run the ball better when Wragge was at center (and Baas came into the game at guard) back in the day. Wragge and Baas are mailers and improved the ypr