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Move David Baas to center

I find it funny how the one guy who bashed every sports writter around is the same guy that tries to use them to justify his stance
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,144
Originally posted by bigwads:
This must be the worst idea of all time. Baas is the dumbest lineman we have and you want to make him the professor of the oline...genius.

Thank you.
The only positive to this suggestion is that we wouldn't have to see Baas' signature move anymore.

You know.. the running play where Baas pulls around and falls down in the A gap.

Actually, Heitmann is better than you think and I would rather replace Baas with Iupati.
When healthy
Baas is our best interior linemen.
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
While Adam Snyder was clearly the main weak link of a bad O-Line, I think Eric Heitman was also a weak link and has been the last few years. I would like to see the team at least consider moving Baas to center a posistion he played some at Michigan and a lot of teams and scouts had Baas projected as a better center than OG coming out of Michigan.

Sign a solid vetran LG and a O-Line of Staley-Vetran OG-Baas-Rachal-Bulaga (or another draft pick) looks pretty good.

you are exactly RIGHT. I feel the same way and have made a thread about how Synder is the worst but a backup and Baas should be at center.....he at least gets a push....unlike Heitmann. No wonder we can't get 2nd and 3rd even fourth and short. I hope the OL coaches see it this way as well because i'm sick of hearing Heitmann is solid.

Yeah, he is solid at just being average. I really miss Newberry
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder

1: Heitmann is a good player, and would be a potential pro-bowl player if he had starting caliber guards next to him. He was the best OL player this year by far. Ask Maiocco, Barrows, or any other writer that keeps tabs on the team.

2: You are right. With Newberry's injuries, and Heitmann's question marks, Baas was slated to be the future at C. But his flexibility, along with the performance of Heitmann allowed him to be moved to OG. And that's a good problem to have.

But the "attitude" at center argument is a joke. As long as you have a fierce leader along the O-line, a guy like Staley, you'll be fine. It doesn't matter the specific position of that emotional leader.

3: WTF are you talking about in your third point? One of the main criticisms of the Nolan/McCloughlan era was that they preferred players that could play multiple positions, rather than just one. Guys like Rachal (OT/OG), Balmer (DE/NT), Snyder (OG/OT), Baas (C/OG), Wallace (C/OG), Wragge (OG/C), Sims (OT/OG), Walker (WR/TE), Robinson (RB/FB) were all drafted because they provided more "bang for your buck" instead of drafting one player for one position.

Wallace's test run was to see how he held up at guard in order to determine if he could replace Baas or Wragge on the depth chart. And it's clear as they all have the OG/C role.

You really need to open your eyes about the reality of McCloughan's draft picks, FA signings, and intent.

Here are some more: Reggie Smith (CB/S), Ahmed Brooks (ILB/OLB), Parys Haralson (DE/OLB), Marcus Hudson (CB/S).

Because this system is giving me fits, I'm just going to say go back to the beginning and read all the posts in this debate GEEK.

I will say however your attitude argument is bunk. Just cause we have Staley means nothing. Especially when he goes down for an extended point during the season. Attitude doesn't matter when you're riding the Pine.

And btw McCloughan didn't have GM responsibilities until two years ago now. Haralson does not fit your argument other than Scott's input as a glorified Scout.

Also Wallace was plugged in at Center. He didn't play much which might explain why so many people are thinking it was Guard.

But I'm basically done with Hymen unless he's sliding over to RG. Cause I've actually SEEN our Guards have to help him out. That should not be happening. Not when he CONTROLS the snap. He should be the very FIRST guy off the blocks. Yet he's consistently blah. If he was as good as people seem to think he is then Rocky Bernard would have at the very least, gotten chipped as he blew through the Line. Instead Hymen is standing there in perfect technical stance as the man just blows right by him. He's had his moments yes. But more bad than good I'm afraid.

~Ceadder

You absolutely DID NOT address any of the points I made about our personal.

Nowhere did I say that McCloughlan was solely responsible, hence the "Nolan/McCloughan era" line. But since he's the GM now, and was part of the previous administration, he's going to get the heat for his draft picks and signings.

I absolutely DID address those points. I'm sorry but you're gonna have to do some thinking for yourself. I was going to point by point your post but I've done it already.

My apologies if you're catching the tail end of this but it's all here in black and white with smiley icons included. And you may not have been directly saying it but a statement with omission is halfway saying that he is solely responsible.

Also I stringently disagree that Scott should take the heat on players he did not sign nor draft. Only if and when he re-signs them should he take the heat if they do not produce. You aren't the only person I've corrected on these fine points. You won't be the last either.

I mean think about it, is Donahue the author of success for Eric Johnson? Is Walsh the bad guy for Barlow? No on both counts. And no SANE rational 9er fan would give credit/blame where it's not due in regards to either man.

So it should not be that way in regards to Scotty. I don't care if he has his fingerprints on the cards or not. He didn't have final say so therefore gets a pass on those decisions.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by bigwads:
This must be the worst idea of all time. Baas is the dumbest lineman we have and you want to make him the professor of the oline...genius.

Thank you.

Wow isn't that subjective to first hand knowledge?

You two know the man? Or is there something that he's done to give you an insight on this?

Did he come out the Visiting team's entrance to start the game?

Or did he try to walk off the field and take a seat on their bench after a series was over?

GEEK, I have now lost any respect I had for you. You come out and ADMIT that the reason that Baas was not made the Center was because Hymen was doing such a bang up job that there was no need to go to him.

And then you agree with someone that has no F'N clue about the man's intelligence or lack thereof?

Real classy.

~Ceadder
All I gotta say is that our OL sucks and you won't know until you try. Strahan sucked as a pass rusher until Nolan of all people switched him to the other side where he became elite.

A year with crap protection between the Guards and Center. I don't think it would have hurt to at least try it out. The protection up the middle was so bad that it's hard to only blame the Guards. Looked more like blown protection to me and that could have something to do with the signal caller, Center.

The same people who say "Coach knows more than most." are the same people who said it when we were clamoring for Goldson to start, for Ahmad Brooks to get more playing time, for Vernon to get more catches...the list goes on.

Some people don't want change or blindly believe the players who start are the ones who will play the best yet it gets proven wrong time and time again.

Also, nothing wrong with trying it...I mean, who knows. Look at Simms playing better at LT compared to RT.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250

Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.

Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.

GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.

You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.

So, are we waiting for?

~Ceadder

What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.

The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.

Really we don't need him at Center? Cause why? Cause Hymen is such a stalwart at the position?

BS! If his name was Kwame Harris you would be having fun at his expense. If his name was Baas you'd be agreeing that he's not smart enough to do the job.

All cause hymen broke his f'n leg.

Well I tried to find footage of Hymen the Vunderschentre's stellar protection of Smith in '07. But unfortunately I couldn't find it. It;s just one of the MANY times in where a Defender blows right by the guy.

If anyone has it, it would be greatly appreciated. Cause it's spot on how bad Hymen is. I only look for that one cause it SHOULD be a feature of a Shattle fans highlight film. But nada. I went to Google, Photobucket and YouTube. No luck.

So please send it to me if you have it.

In any case, Hymen is not all that. He blows protection assignments making our Line look rediculous(like they need any help in that regard) he gets blown by on the snap and alot of times looks absolutely lost.

You can't say he doesn't cause the Igglets were standing him up without contact. That just should NEVER happen to even an Average Center.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by English:
We need an upgrade not a reshuffle. Baas needs to go to the bench or further away, not to the most important position on the line

Heard that!
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250

Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.

Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.

GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.

You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.

So, are we waiting for?

~Ceadder

What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.

The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.

Really we don't need him at Center? Cause why? Cause Hymen is such a stalwart at the position?

BS! If his name was Kwame Harris you would be having fun at his expense. If his name was Baas you'd be agreeing that he's not smart enough to do the job.

All cause hymen broke his f'n leg.

Well I tried to find footage of Hymen the Vunderschentre's stellar protection of Smith in '07. But unfortunately I couldn't find it. It;s just one of the MANY times in where a Defender blows right by the guy.

If anyone has it, it would be greatly appreciated. Cause it's spot on how bad Hymen is. I only look for that one cause it SHOULD be a feature of a Shattle fans highlight film. But nada. I went to Google, Photobucket and YouTube. No luck.

So please send it to me if you have it.

In any case, Hymen is not all that. He blows protection assignments making our Line look rediculous(like they need any help in that regard) he gets blown by on the snap and alot of times looks absolutely lost.

You can't say he doesn't cause the Igglets were standing him up without contact. That just should NEVER happen to even an Average Center.

~Ceadder

Ceadder,
Heitman (hymen as you refer to him) is not the only OL to blow an assignment. In fact, if you looked to the right and left, you'd see a few culprits. There is an overall lack of consistency on the OL, partly due to injury, partly due to young players with a slower learning curves, and partly (arguably) due to poor OL coaching. I don't discount that Baas could be a good center, better than Heitman (then again maybe not, there is only one way to really find out), but let's see what we pick up and lose this off-season via the draft and FA before calling for a serviceable veterans job. Myself, as a Niners fan, wants dominant players at every position. We aren't there yet. Maybe we could wait until OTA's and training camp when we would be able to see if our arguments/judgement are valid or ostentatious.

Derty D.
Originally posted by DertyDonahue:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250

Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.

Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.

GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.

You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.

So, are we waiting for?

~Ceadder

What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.

The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.

Really we don't need him at Center? Cause why? Cause Hymen is such a stalwart at the position?

BS! If his name was Kwame Harris you would be having fun at his expense. If his name was Baas you'd be agreeing that he's not smart enough to do the job.

All cause hymen broke his f'n leg.

Well I tried to find footage of Hymen the Vunderschentre's stellar protection of Smith in '07. But unfortunately I couldn't find it. It;s just one of the MANY times in where a Defender blows right by the guy.

If anyone has it, it would be greatly appreciated. Cause it's spot on how bad Hymen is. I only look for that one cause it SHOULD be a feature of a Shattle fans highlight film. But nada. I went to Google, Photobucket and YouTube. No luck.

So please send it to me if you have it.

In any case, Hymen is not all that. He blows protection assignments making our Line look rediculous(like they need any help in that regard) he gets blown by on the snap and alot of times looks absolutely lost.

You can't say he doesn't cause the Igglets were standing him up without contact. That just should NEVER happen to even an Average Center.

~Ceadder

Ceadder,
Heitman (hymen as you refer to him) is not the only OL to blow an assignment. In fact, if you looked to the right and left, you'd see a few culprits. There is an overall lack of consistency on the OL, partly due to injury, partly due to young players with a slower learning curves, and partly (arguably) due to poor OL coaching. I don't discount that Baas could be a good center, better than Heitman (then again maybe not, there is only one way to really find out), but let's see what we pick up and lose this off-season via the draft and FA before calling for a serviceable veterans job. Myself, as a Niners fan, wants dominant players at every position. We aren't there yet. Maybe we could wait until OTA's and training camp when we would be able to see if our arguments/judgement are valid or ostentatious.

Derty D.

Never said he was the only guy. I think that if you went through what I did say you'd find that I stated taht guys were playing out of their natural positions, missing blocks as a result. And while Hymen did have to help out either Guard one (Baas) was due to injury more than anything.

However all that said Mr. Geni still called the wrong scheme on more than a few occasions, so it could be said also that not only did he blow his own assignments but that of the unit and had to recover from that by assisting the Guards.


It's funny that what we do not hear could have an impact on how the Guards and the rest of the Line plays. Do you remember the Jennings blow up in '06? Where JJ was going after Nolan? I think that it had to do with him getting his ass chewed for missing an assignment. I'd hazard a guess that Hymen blew the assignment and that JJ didn't appreciate getting his ass chewed over it. Allen was shockingly enough quite calm about it. This is the guy that bout handed Cortez his helmet with his head still strapped snugly inside it.

I understand that blocks get missed. I'm not heartless. But I do not accept inferior play from the Center when he is applauded as one of the top Linemen in the league. Especially when I've seen otherwise. It was his missed block that cost Smith 2 years of his career. Maybe it was for the best. Maybe not. We won't know til the next season. But me I'm sick an tired of seeing people stick up for the weak spot on the Line and blame those around him. I agree they have not played well. But I feel that his protection calls are a big part of that, and it affects not only the Line but the QB's blitz pickup.

And as I said about Wallace, he got looks at Center not Guard. teams don't give you ANY time at Center if their goal is to make you a Guard. It's insane to think otherwise. This is the 4th time now that I've said something about this.

I want new Linemen like everyone else. But let's face it that's NOT happening. We may get a Tackle. But it still takes Linemen(unless they are Orlando Pace) 3 years to get to where they get it. So we will still have a problem if Foerster is either let go, or he pulls his head out of his crack and fixes the line with some creativity.

Sims(LT), Rachal(LG) Baas or Wallace(C) Heitmann (RG), Staley (RT)

Snyder as much as I can't stand him as a starter fills in okay in a short Pinch.

An I mean SHORT. No extended time for that guy if we can help it.

The time to do this is Minis through to Preseason 1st team Defenses. No the Defenses aren't going to throw everything at them but it will get them some confidence. If it doesn't work by 3rd game then slide Heitmann back over.

But if things work out like they did for Sims then hey maybe we had more than one guy playing out of position. Hell I woould handcuff Heitmann to both Wallace and Baas right from the 1st day of OTAs' and have him work with them on the protection calls. But hey what do I know, right?

~Ceadder
hells naw. Fumbleaya!!
Well now.

We're gonna have to wait and see who takes Foersters place.

But if we aren't running the Zone blocking scheme anyone wanna lay odds that Hymen's time as our Center is over?

Anyone, anyone?

He's about to be exposed in a BIG way after all.

Thanks Dan you mench.

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Jan 21, 2010 at 13:08:49 ]
I just find it STUPID that the people who are furious about our OL target the best player on the line to bench. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I did say the word STUPID.

As for the "I'm done with Hymen"..........who the blank cares what YOU think. The team, scouts, coaches, players, the league seems to think he's pretty good...............so who cares what you think. Like your opinion matters to the guys who actually know what they are talking about.

Once again, this is one of these cases where a fan tosses his mind out the window due to a prejudice against a player, and no matter if God Almighty came down from heaven and declared the truth, this person would still put their head in the sand. I'm sure with every article stating that Heitmann had a good year, a consistent year, a solid performance in 2009, it must be like nails on a chalkboard.

The defense of this unintelligent form of thinking that nobody else connected to football believes....nothing. There is no argument, just name calling. Or..."David Baas was a great center, in college, back 6 years ago"...Once again, BRILLIANT!!! Let me add the equally brilliant, "Back in, uh, 2007, he uh, stunk". Two points for Club Mensa. First, that was three seasons ago. Who the blank cares about what happened three, five, ten, or twenty years ago. This only exposes your anger and bias, which completely clouds any intellectual form of thought. Second, there was thing called an injury. I know it must be completely incomprehensible, but Heitmann did not play at a high level in 2007.....because....he...was....drumroll...injured. But, once again....WHO THE BLANK CARES ABOUT 2007?

The bottom line is that the people who do understand football, and don't base their player personnel decisions on some mindless bias, don't think Heitmann is a problem at all. In fact, I can't find one writer, coach, GM, scout, donkey, or waterboy to say he is a problem.

Bias bites! The truth hurts!!

P.S. Just admit that you have no idea what you are talking about, concede defeat, and move on. Your insistance to argue this nonsensical, stupid point is self-mutilation. And, damn embarrassing. I invite the board to the "Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player" thread I started last year that humiliated the same people who are bringing back this assinine argument this year due their bias.

The latest is cheering for the new offensive coordinator to "expose" Heitmann. How? By showing the world the "mercurial, fleet of foot" Baas over the "slow, stumbling" Heitmann. The hits just keep on coming.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Jan 21, 2010 at 15:18:57 ]