Originally posted by bigwads:
This must be the worst idea of all time. Baas is the dumbest lineman we have and you want to make him the professor of the oline...genius.
Thank you.
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Originally posted by bigwads:
This must be the worst idea of all time. Baas is the dumbest lineman we have and you want to make him the professor of the oline...genius.
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
While Adam Snyder was clearly the main weak link of a bad O-Line, I think Eric Heitman was also a weak link and has been the last few years. I would like to see the team at least consider moving Baas to center a posistion he played some at Michigan and a lot of teams and scouts had Baas projected as a better center than OG coming out of Michigan.
Sign a solid vetran LG and a O-Line of Staley-Vetran OG-Baas-Rachal-Bulaga (or another draft pick) looks pretty good.
Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by PatrickJira411:Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).
Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco
Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.
So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."
Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.
We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.
Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?
Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...
If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?
" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."
"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"
Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.
Okay let's see where to begin.
1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.
2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.
And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.
~Ceadder
1: Heitmann is a good player, and would be a potential pro-bowl player if he had starting caliber guards next to him. He was the best OL player this year by far. Ask Maiocco, Barrows, or any other writer that keeps tabs on the team.
2: You are right. With Newberry's injuries, and Heitmann's question marks, Baas was slated to be the future at C. But his flexibility, along with the performance of Heitmann allowed him to be moved to OG. And that's a good problem to have.
But the "attitude" at center argument is a joke. As long as you have a fierce leader along the O-line, a guy like Staley, you'll be fine. It doesn't matter the specific position of that emotional leader.
3: WTF are you talking about in your third point? One of the main criticisms of the Nolan/McCloughlan era was that they preferred players that could play multiple positions, rather than just one. Guys like Rachal (OT/OG), Balmer (DE/NT), Snyder (OG/OT), Baas (C/OG), Wallace (C/OG), Wragge (OG/C), Sims (OT/OG), Walker (WR/TE), Robinson (RB/FB) were all drafted because they provided more "bang for your buck" instead of drafting one player for one position.
Wallace's test run was to see how he held up at guard in order to determine if he could replace Baas or Wragge on the depth chart. And it's clear as they all have the OG/C role.
You really need to open your eyes about the reality of McCloughan's draft picks, FA signings, and intent.
Here are some more: Reggie Smith (CB/S), Ahmed Brooks (ILB/OLB), Parys Haralson (DE/OLB), Marcus Hudson (CB/S).
Because this system is giving me fits, I'm just going to say go back to the beginning and read all the posts in this debate GEEK.
I will say however your attitude argument is bunk. Just cause we have Staley means nothing. Especially when he goes down for an extended point during the season. Attitude doesn't matter when you're riding the Pine.
And btw McCloughan didn't have GM responsibilities until two years ago now. Haralson does not fit your argument other than Scott's input as a glorified Scout.
Also Wallace was plugged in at Center. He didn't play much which might explain why so many people are thinking it was Guard.
But I'm basically done with Hymen unless he's sliding over to RG. Cause I've actually SEEN our Guards have to help him out. That should not be happening. Not when he CONTROLS the snap. He should be the very FIRST guy off the blocks. Yet he's consistently blah. If he was as good as people seem to think he is then Rocky Bernard would have at the very least, gotten chipped as he blew through the Line. Instead Hymen is standing there in perfect technical stance as the man just blows right by him. He's had his moments yes. But more bad than good I'm afraid.
~Ceadder
You absolutely DID NOT address any of the points I made about our personal.
Nowhere did I say that McCloughlan was solely responsible, hence the "Nolan/McCloughan era" line. But since he's the GM now, and was part of the previous administration, he's going to get the heat for his draft picks and signings.
Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by bigwads:
This must be the worst idea of all time. Baas is the dumbest lineman we have and you want to make him the professor of the oline...genius.
Thank you.
Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.
Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250
Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.
Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.
GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.
You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.
So, are we waiting for?
~Ceadder
What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.
The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.
Originally posted by English:
We need an upgrade not a reshuffle. Baas needs to go to the bench or further away, not to the most important position on the line
Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.
Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250
Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.
Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.
GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.
You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.
So, are we waiting for?
~Ceadder
What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.
The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.
Really we don't need him at Center? Cause why? Cause Hymen is such a stalwart at the position?
BS! If his name was Kwame Harris you would be having fun at his expense. If his name was Baas you'd be agreeing that he's not smart enough to do the job.
All cause hymen broke his f'n leg.
Well I tried to find footage of Hymen the Vunderschentre's stellar protection of Smith in '07. But unfortunately I couldn't find it. It;s just one of the MANY times in where a Defender blows right by the guy.
If anyone has it, it would be greatly appreciated. Cause it's spot on how bad Hymen is. I only look for that one cause it SHOULD be a feature of a Shattle fans highlight film. But nada. I went to Google, Photobucket and YouTube. No luck.
So please send it to me if you have it.
In any case, Hymen is not all that. He blows protection assignments making our Line look rediculous(like they need any help in that regard) he gets blown by on the snap and alot of times looks absolutely lost.
You can't say he doesn't cause the Igglets were standing him up without contact. That just should NEVER happen to even an Average Center.
~Ceadder
Originally posted by DertyDonahue:Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by Ceadderman:Originally posted by GEEK:Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.
Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201
http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250
Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.
Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.
GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.
You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.
So, are we waiting for?
~Ceadder
What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.
The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.
Really we don't need him at Center? Cause why? Cause Hymen is such a stalwart at the position?
BS! If his name was Kwame Harris you would be having fun at his expense. If his name was Baas you'd be agreeing that he's not smart enough to do the job.
All cause hymen broke his f'n leg.
Well I tried to find footage of Hymen the Vunderschentre's stellar protection of Smith in '07. But unfortunately I couldn't find it. It;s just one of the MANY times in where a Defender blows right by the guy.
If anyone has it, it would be greatly appreciated. Cause it's spot on how bad Hymen is. I only look for that one cause it SHOULD be a feature of a Shattle fans highlight film. But nada. I went to Google, Photobucket and YouTube. No luck.
So please send it to me if you have it.
In any case, Hymen is not all that. He blows protection assignments making our Line look rediculous(like they need any help in that regard) he gets blown by on the snap and alot of times looks absolutely lost.
You can't say he doesn't cause the Igglets were standing him up without contact. That just should NEVER happen to even an Average Center.
~Ceadder
Ceadder,
Heitman (hymen as you refer to him) is not the only OL to blow an assignment. In fact, if you looked to the right and left, you'd see a few culprits. There is an overall lack of consistency on the OL, partly due to injury, partly due to young players with a slower learning curves, and partly (arguably) due to poor OL coaching. I don't discount that Baas could be a good center, better than Heitman (then again maybe not, there is only one way to really find out), but let's see what we pick up and lose this off-season via the draft and FA before calling for a serviceable veterans job. Myself, as a Niners fan, wants dominant players at every position. We aren't there yet. Maybe we could wait until OTA's and training camp when we would be able to see if our arguments/judgement are valid or ostentatious.
Derty D.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I just find it STUPID that the people who are furious about our OL target the best player on the line to bench. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, I did say the word STUPID.
As for the "I'm done with Hymen"..........who the blank cares what YOU think. The team, scouts, coaches, players, the league seems to think he's pretty good...............so who cares what you think. Like your opinion matters to the guys who actually know what they are talking about.
Once again, this is one of these cases where a fan tosses his mind out the window due to a prejudice against a player, and no matter if God Almighty came down from heaven and declared the truth, this person would still put their head in the sand. I'm sure with every article stating that Heitmann had a good year, a consistent year, a solid performance in 2009, it must be like nails on a chalkboard.
The defense of this unintelligent form of thinking that nobody else connected to football believes....nothing. There is no argument, just name calling. Or...David Baas was a great center, in college, back 6 years ago...Once again, BRILLIANT!!!
The bottom line is that the people who do understand football, and don't base their player personnel decisions on some mindless bias, don't think Heitmann is a problem at all. In fact, I can't find one writer, coach, GM, scout, donkey, or waterboy to say he is a problem.
Bias bites! The truth hurts!!