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We are a good team with a bad QB

Originally posted by SWKING:
I was at the game, watched every play. Smith was under pressure most of the game. The O-line was weak and ineffective as a group. They allowed defenders in unabated and didn't do their job effectively. Why doesn't anyone notice the sweet passes Alex Smith makes? Like the one to V. Davis etc. He can make throws that Hill only dreams of making. FIX that lousy O-line and Smith's play will improve immensely, Gore's numbers will improve and the defensive numbers will improve.

Young had ALL day to throw the ball and the difference in protection that the Titan's line gave him compared to Alex Smith's time was very obvious. Smith has little or no time to read the defense and Young was quite comfortable and it showed on both sides.

Bottom line for me is the O-line is by far our biggest issue and it effects all other aspects of the team.

Give Smith some time in the pocket and some games before we just freak out again. We've got to have some continuity!

Young made several plays where he had to avoid pressure.

And Smith had a nice pocket most of the time. This is the NFL, you don't get perfect pockets on every play. Not a single quarterback in the league get this.

Smith had more than enough time to scan the field, but instead of scanning the field, he locks his head on one receiver. He is obviously still not completely comfortable.

And Hill has nothing to do with Alex Smith. Smith is certainly the type of player we need, but the questions is, "Is he good enough"? He has had three opportunities to win games, and has made mistakes each time.

I'm not throwing Smith into the garbage bin, but he had everything he needed last Sunday, but simply couldn't get it done.
Originally posted by Dino:
We're a good team with a Bad QB, horrible offensive line, no pass rush, and no play making safety....

With all that you say is wrong , were are we a good team ? That may be the worst post yet .

[ Edited by xx49erfanxx on Nov 9, 2009 at 14:26:23 ]
We are a bad team with a couple of good players
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
we are a good team with a bad offensive line

Can't blame this game on the o-line. They weren't horrendous. they gave hime time he just takes a while lol. THis is a lack of a good qb loss. Smith didn't even give Crabrtee the time of day this afternoon, wtf!!

From MM Twitter:

Quote:
Don't blame 49ers O-line for Sunday's loss. Protection held up well despite array of Titans' blitzes and 51 quarterback dropbacks.

Oline wasn't as bad as it has been. Still Smith wasn't getting the normal 3 seconds needed to pass.

Maybe they held up on the LEFT side, but the right side was a joke. Snyder was ridiculous and I counted at least 3 blown blocks. I don't know what MM was seeing, but it was clear Young had more time than Smith. Smith is playing because of his mobility - so just because you can OUTRUN sacks means the OL is better? Nope. Sorry I disagree with MM. The fumble Smith has was clearly because Snyder was beaten by a spin move on a 4-man rush.
Originally posted by bret:
We have three problems with our offense:

1. Philosophy! Singletary wants to run and wants a "f"ysical team that asserts it's will. But our two best offensive linemen (Staley and Heitman) are the smallest but most athletic. The team gets consistently beaten by speed rushers on our right side and by stunts and blitzes up the center that no one picks up quickly enough! I believe it was Kevin Lynch who ran a story on the bankruptcy of the "big, physical linemen" idea. We need to change our thinking here!
2. Offensive line. See number one.
3. Quarterback. Shaun Hill doesn't have a major league arm, and teams started crowding the line when they caught on. Alex Smith has the physical tools, and with the improvement he has made in four and a half years, he has had us close enough to win three weeks in a row. But each of those weeks, when it was winning time, Alex Smith made the key mistake that turned a potential win into a loss. This is NO IMPROVEMENT over what he did as a rookie. Moxie! If you have it, you have it. If you don't, it can't be taught. And that's why Flacco and Ryan etc. are successful as rookies and Alex still leaves us making excuses IN HIS FIFTH SEASON!

Ironically enough, the "philosophy" or play calling was pretty good last Sunday. We had the most first downs we have had all season. As a result, Gore actually had some space to run and was productive.

The O-line blocked pretty well too. I was pleasantly surprised with Barry Sims, he seems like a MUCH better LT than RT.

The quarterbacking just isn't there yet. Smith runs out of too many pockets when he has time, just like in the past. He rushes himself too much, just like in the past. This is perhaps the most important skill for a quarterback in the NFL, pocket presence. Smith still doesn't quite have it, and it causes him to rush plays and lock onto the short route too often. Its a very very difficult skill, and you don't necessarily learn it at a college program.

Smith can make the throws, but it takes a lot more than that to be a quarterback in the NFL.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
we are a good team with a bad offensive line

Can't blame this game on the o-line. They weren't horrendous. they gave hime time he just takes a while lol. THis is a lack of a good qb loss. Smith didn't even give Crabrtee the time of day this afternoon, wtf!!

From MM Twitter:

Quote:
Don't blame 49ers O-line for Sunday's loss. Protection held up well despite array of Titans' blitzes and 51 quarterback dropbacks.

Oline wasn't as bad as it has been. Still Smith wasn't getting the normal 3 seconds needed to pass.

Maybe they held up on the LEFT side, but the right side was a joke. Snyder was ridiculous and I counted at least 3 blown blocks. I don't know what MM was seeing, but it was clear Young had more time than Smith. Smith is playing because of his mobility - so just because you can OUTRUN sacks means the OL is better? Nope. Sorry I disagree with MM. The fumble Smith has was clearly because Snyder was beaten by a spin move on a 4-man rush.

Snyder was beaten, but if that happened to Tom Brady he would have simply stepped up in the pocket and completed a pass, and nobody would have cared that the RT let his guy get washed around to the outside.

You see if the quarterback steps up, it allows the tackles to recover on their block and simply "wash" the player around the pocket. However, if they don't step up, the quarterback has a good chance of getting hit.
Sometimes there is no space to step up, but on that play, there was clearly enough space.

Its tough to be critical, but sorry, this is the NFL, and pocket presence is the skill that separates the good quarterbacks from the rest.
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
We are a bad team with a couple of good players

Is that why we play games to the wire with the best teams in the NFL?
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
we are a good team with a bad offensive line

Can't blame this game on the o-line. They weren't horrendous. they gave hime time he just takes a while lol. THis is a lack of a good qb loss. Smith didn't even give Crabrtee the time of day this afternoon, wtf!!

From MM Twitter:

Quote:
Don't blame 49ers O-line for Sunday's loss. Protection held up well despite array of Titans' blitzes and 51 quarterback dropbacks.

Oline wasn't as bad as it has been. Still Smith wasn't getting the normal 3 seconds needed to pass.

Maybe they held up on the LEFT side, but the right side was a joke. Snyder was ridiculous and I counted at least 3 blown blocks. I don't know what MM was seeing, but it was clear Young had more time than Smith. Smith is playing because of his mobility - so just because you can OUTRUN sacks means the OL is better? Nope. Sorry I disagree with MM. The fumble Smith has was clearly because Snyder was beaten by a spin move on a 4-man rush.

Snyder was beaten, but if that happened to Tom Brady he would have simply stepped up in the pocket and completed a pass, and nobody would have cared that the RT let his guy get washed around to the outside.

You see if the quarterback steps up, it allows the tackles to recover on their block and simply "wash" the player around the pocket. However, if they don't step up, the quarterback has a good chance of getting hit.
Sometimes there is no space to step up, but on that play, there was clearly enough space.

Its tough to be critical, but sorry, this is the NFL, and pocket presence is the skill that separates the good quarterbacks from the rest.

Are you serious? Snyder was beat so quickly he didn't even have time to hold. If you would have watched Brady at the beginning of this year, you would have notice protection problems allowed the Broncos who aren't as talented BEAT the Broncos.

You have to be able to direct the pass rush to "wash" a player, and certainly your OGs have to be good enough to direct the rush. If it's simply an issue of "stepping up", Shaun Hill wouldn't be on the bench.

I find it near incredible that you are going to even compare our line to the WORST of the Patriot OL.

Just wow.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
We are a bad team with a couple of good players

Is that why we play games to the wire with the best teams in the NFL?

We are 3-5 with no wins outside the worst division in football.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
we are a good team with a bad offensive line

Can't blame this game on the o-line. They weren't horrendous. they gave hime time he just takes a while lol. THis is a lack of a good qb loss. Smith didn't even give Crabrtee the time of day this afternoon, wtf!!

From MM Twitter:

Quote:
Don't blame 49ers O-line for Sunday's loss. Protection held up well despite array of Titans' blitzes and 51 quarterback dropbacks.

Oline wasn't as bad as it has been. Still Smith wasn't getting the normal 3 seconds needed to pass.

Maybe they held up on the LEFT side, but the right side was a joke. Snyder was ridiculous and I counted at least 3 blown blocks. I don't know what MM was seeing, but it was clear Young had more time than Smith. Smith is playing because of his mobility - so just because you can OUTRUN sacks means the OL is better? Nope. Sorry I disagree with MM. The fumble Smith has was clearly because Snyder was beaten by a spin move on a 4-man rush.

Snyder was beaten, but if that happened to Tom Brady he would have simply stepped up in the pocket and completed a pass, and nobody would have cared that the RT let his guy get washed around to the outside.

You see if the quarterback steps up, it allows the tackles to recover on their block and simply "wash" the player around the pocket. However, if they don't step up, the quarterback has a good chance of getting hit.
Sometimes there is no space to step up, but on that play, there was clearly enough space.

Its tough to be critical, but sorry, this is the NFL, and pocket presence is the skill that separates the good quarterbacks from the rest.

Are you serious? Snyder was beat so quickly he didn't even have time to hold. If you would have watched Brady at the beginning of this year, you would have notice protection problems allowed the Broncos who aren't as talented BEAT the Broncos.

You have to be able to direct the pass rush to "wash" a player, and certainly your OGs have to be good enough to direct the rush. If it's simply an issue of "stepping up", Shaun Hill wouldn't be on the bench.

I find it near incredible that you are going to even compare our line to the WORST of the Patriot OL.

Just wow.

The only comparison I am making, is our quarterbacks vs Tom Brady. Which is obviously an extreme comparison, because Brady is, IMO, the best quarterback in the NFL and one of the best of all-time.

The extreme comparison serves to accentuate the fact that a quarterback can help his line by stepping up into the pocket.

Every time I have seen Brady play, he makes plays like this. He makes more than a handful each game. The rush comes around the edge, and he simply steps up in the pocket while continuously scanning down field, and then makes the throw.

There was a play he made this year, where his own lineman was pushed into him, and he simply took one step forward without even turning his head, and still completed the pass.

Do you think if a lineman ran into Smith from behind, he would react like that?
Smith would freak out (like most quarterbacks) and start sprinting out of the pocket, perhaps trying to scramble or find a route working back to him.

But Brady isn't the only quarterback who would have survived on that play.
Brady, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Manning, Warner, Romo, Favre, Palmer perhaps even Ryan and Flacco, would have stepped up into the empty space and given themselves more time.

Watch them play, they do it all the time. They make it look so routine that nobody bothers to realize how impressive they are at avoiding the pressure. Brady is the best of them all at this skill, which is why I use him as the most explicit example.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
we are a good team with a bad offensive line

Can't blame this game on the o-line. They weren't horrendous. they gave hime time he just takes a while lol. THis is a lack of a good qb loss. Smith didn't even give Crabrtee the time of day this afternoon, wtf!!

From MM Twitter:

Quote:
Don't blame 49ers O-line for Sunday's loss. Protection held up well despite array of Titans' blitzes and 51 quarterback dropbacks.

Oline wasn't as bad as it has been. Still Smith wasn't getting the normal 3 seconds needed to pass.

Maybe they held up on the LEFT side, but the right side was a joke. Snyder was ridiculous and I counted at least 3 blown blocks. I don't know what MM was seeing, but it was clear Young had more time than Smith. Smith is playing because of his mobility - so just because you can OUTRUN sacks means the OL is better? Nope. Sorry I disagree with MM. The fumble Smith has was clearly because Snyder was beaten by a spin move on a 4-man rush.

Snyder was beaten, but if that happened to Tom Brady he would have simply stepped up in the pocket and completed a pass, and nobody would have cared that the RT let his guy get washed around to the outside.

You see if the quarterback steps up, it allows the tackles to recover on their block and simply "wash" the player around the pocket. However, if they don't step up, the quarterback has a good chance of getting hit.
Sometimes there is no space to step up, but on that play, there was clearly enough space.

Its tough to be critical, but sorry, this is the NFL, and pocket presence is the skill that separates the good quarterbacks from the rest.

Are you serious? Snyder was beat so quickly he didn't even have time to hold. If you would have watched Brady at the beginning of this year, you would have notice protection problems allowed the Broncos who aren't as talented BEAT the Broncos.

You have to be able to direct the pass rush to "wash" a player, and certainly your OGs have to be good enough to direct the rush. If it's simply an issue of "stepping up", Shaun Hill wouldn't be on the bench.

I find it near incredible that you are going to even compare our line to the WORST of the Patriot OL.

Just wow.

The only comparison I am making, is our quarterbacks vs Tom Brady. Which is obviously an extreme comparison, because Brady is, IMO, the best quarterback in the NFL and one of the best of all-time.

The extreme comparison serves to accentuate the fact that a quarterback can help his line by stepping up into the pocket.

Every time I have seen Brady play, he makes plays like this. He makes more than a handful each game. The rush comes around the edge, and he simply steps up in the pocket while continuously scanning down field, and then makes the throw.

There was a play he made this year, where his own lineman was pushed into him, and he simply took one step forward without even turning his head, and still completed the pass.

Do you think if a lineman ran into Smith from behind, he would react like that?
Smith would freak out (like most quarterbacks) and start sprinting out of the pocket, perhaps trying to scramble or find a route working back to him.

But Brady isn't the only quarterback who would have survived on that play.
Brady, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Manning, Warner, Romo, Favre, Palmer perhaps even Ryan and Flacco, would have stepped up into the empty space and given themselves more time.

Watch them play, they do it all the time. They make it look so routine that nobody bothers to realize how impressive they are at avoiding the pressure. Brady is the best of them all at this skill, which is why I use him as the most explicit example.

Every single one of those QBs have better OLs than the 49ers - and have had better lines for 2 years. Again, you can say it's just Smith but it's not. The 49ers are the only team in relations to those who rotate linemen 2 out of 5 positions on the right side. Remember starting Snyder for a series and then Rachal for series? That's a sign of a bad OL. Tony Pashos cut by the JAGS (who obviously has too much talent on their OL /sarcasm) is immediately better than the guy penciled in to start?

I do watch these guys play all the time. Let's look at McNabb. When he's harassed, he throws picks - like he did on Sunday night and a couple of weeks ago against the Raiders. Hill wasn't lighting it up before Alex started. The running game wasn't blowing opponents off the ball were they.

Every single one of those QBs have better coaching and talent at the OL than the 49ers. You extreme comparison only reinforces what I'm saying here:

The 49ers are not a good team and this is the ultimate team sport. Take your stopwatch and time, step-up or not, how quickly the rush even forces or alters the QBs rhythm. Say what you want about surviving or stepping up, none - and I mean none of those QBs do it EVERY play. 49er QBs (Smith, Hill) have to do it EVERY play.

[ Edited by NinerGM on Nov 9, 2009 at 15:21:51 ]
we are an average team with an average QB that has a very below average OLine blocking for him
We're a team with a good defense and a terrible O-line which results in a sub par offense.
I personally thought smith looked like he was throwing the interceptions on purpose. The way he smiled after he screwed up its hard to believe that he doesn't have money against the 9ers to win!! Maybe to suppliment the cash he had to give up !
seriously though I really hope he gets it together or gets traded. We kept begging for him to open up the passing game and this is what we get. Like sing said
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
we are a good team with a bad offensive line

Can't blame this game on the o-line. They weren't horrendous. they gave hime time he just takes a while lol. THis is a lack of a good qb loss. Smith didn't even give Crabrtee the time of day this afternoon, wtf!!

From MM Twitter:

Quote:
Don't blame 49ers O-line for Sunday's loss. Protection held up well despite array of Titans' blitzes and 51 quarterback dropbacks.

Oline wasn't as bad as it has been. Still Smith wasn't getting the normal 3 seconds needed to pass.

Maybe they held up on the LEFT side, but the right side was a joke. Snyder was ridiculous and I counted at least 3 blown blocks. I don't know what MM was seeing, but it was clear Young had more time than Smith. Smith is playing because of his mobility - so just because you can OUTRUN sacks means the OL is better? Nope. Sorry I disagree with MM. The fumble Smith has was clearly because Snyder was beaten by a spin move on a 4-man rush.

Snyder was beaten, but if that happened to Tom Brady he would have simply stepped up in the pocket and completed a pass, and nobody would have cared that the RT let his guy get washed around to the outside.

You see if the quarterback steps up, it allows the tackles to recover on their block and simply "wash" the player around the pocket. However, if they don't step up, the quarterback has a good chance of getting hit.
Sometimes there is no space to step up, but on that play, there was clearly enough space.

Its tough to be critical, but sorry, this is the NFL, and pocket presence is the skill that separates the good quarterbacks from the rest.

Are you serious? Snyder was beat so quickly he didn't even have time to hold. If you would have watched Brady at the beginning of this year, you would have notice protection problems allowed the Broncos who aren't as talented BEAT the Broncos.

You have to be able to direct the pass rush to "wash" a player, and certainly your OGs have to be good enough to direct the rush. If it's simply an issue of "stepping up", Shaun Hill wouldn't be on the bench.

I find it near incredible that you are going to even compare our line to the WORST of the Patriot OL.

Just wow.

The only comparison I am making, is our quarterbacks vs Tom Brady. Which is obviously an extreme comparison, because Brady is, IMO, the best quarterback in the NFL and one of the best of all-time.

The extreme comparison serves to accentuate the fact that a quarterback can help his line by stepping up into the pocket.

Every time I have seen Brady play, he makes plays like this. He makes more than a handful each game. The rush comes around the edge, and he simply steps up in the pocket while continuously scanning down field, and then makes the throw.

There was a play he made this year, where his own lineman was pushed into him, and he simply took one step forward without even turning his head, and still completed the pass.

Do you think if a lineman ran into Smith from behind, he would react like that?
Smith would freak out (like most quarterbacks) and start sprinting out of the pocket, perhaps trying to scramble or find a route working back to him.

But Brady isn't the only quarterback who would have survived on that play.
Brady, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Manning, Warner, Romo, Favre, Palmer perhaps even Ryan and Flacco, would have stepped up into the empty space and given themselves more time.

Watch them play, they do it all the time. They make it look so routine that nobody bothers to realize how impressive they are at avoiding the pressure. Brady is the best of them all at this skill, which is why I use him as the most explicit example.

Every single one of those QBs have better OLs than the 49ers - and have had better lines for 2 years. Again, you can say it's just Smith but it's not. The 49ers are the only team in relations to those who rotate linemen 2 out of 5 positions on the right side. Remember starting Snyder for a series and then Rachal for series? That's a sign of a bad OL. Tony Pashos cut by the JAGS (who obviously has too much talent on their OL /sarcasm) is immediately better than the guy penciled in to start?

I do watch these guys play all the time. Let's look at McNabb. When he's harassed, he throws picks - like he did on Sunday night and a couple of weeks ago against the Raiders. Hill wasn't lighting it up before Alex started. The running game wasn't blowing opponents off the ball were they.

Every single one of those QBs have better coaching and talent at the OL than the 49ers. You extreme comparison only reinforces what I'm saying here:

The 49ers are not a good team and this is the ultimate team sport. Take your stopwatch and time, step-up or not, how quickly the rush even forces or alters the QBs rhythm. Say what you want about surviving or stepping up, none - and I mean none of those QBs do it EVERY play. 49er QBs (Smith, Hill) have to do it EVERY play.

Still, the common thread in each of those teams is that their quarterbacks are better than ours and lets face it, this is a QB driven league. We are a good team without a QB and a good O-line imo. But the O-line this game didn't lose us the game this week.

I think we have receivers that would hit their stride with an awesome QB and we know we have a good TE. A good TE that cannot stop drive killing penalties, but a good TE never the less.

We have a decent defense that is good enough to get us in the playoffs I believe. We still do lack a pass rush and for all the key names in the secondary it is appauling to me that we have that bad of a pass D. Number 2 rush D and terrible pass D. We do need some safety help, but overall a decent defense.

Pass D is dragging us out of the top 10 and into the 20's Very pathetic because I also believe we have a good coordinator in Manusky and a good HC in Singletary. That is my take, I could be way off base however that is how I see it

I do think this season is kind of toast but stranger things have happened. Our only wins in week one against AZ without key players, against Seattle without key players and against the Lambs. Just WOW. Kinda hard to keep the grin on
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