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singletary MAKING BIG MISTAKES.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see how he is that good. Look at the Denver coach for example. 6 - 0 in his rookie season and his team is always prepared.

Singletary:

Lack of preperation - Where were the X's and O's preperation for the Atlanta game? They got their butt kicked all over the field and didn't appear ready or well coached.

Taking timeouts to give worthless PEP RALLY's... Can you picture Bill Walsh doing this? That PEP RALLY cost a challenge later in the game which was a momentum changer and a game changer if it was a close game. Luckily we got blown out like we often do.

Chilo a starter and rotating Guards... Where is the continuity to the offensive line? Find a starter and stick with it. If you don't know who your starters are you aren't a real good coach.

Elevating DIVA (Crabtree) to a starter after missing all of preseason, all the games and training camp. Obviously he is not ready. He barely knows the plays at this point. And what does it do for the locker room? He's losing his guys. Guys are already complaining. Tree hasn't earned anything yet.

Yelling at opposing teams players. How is this HC worthy? A HC is supposed to be well above this level.

IMO Singletary is a highly emotional guy who wants to win but doesn't control his emotions well enough to be a steady head coach. Mike Nolan was better with game management / time management by far. I don't believe we can win with Singletary in the present state. He needs to tone it down a little and be a coach instead of an inspirational leader and motivational speaker.

Discuss Singletary's good and bad points thus far.

SD, I know you often rant and rave, but you got way too carried away here. The bolded statement is completely not credible.

How in God's name was he not a better TIMEOUT MANAGER than MR. MOTIVATIONAL HALFTIME SPEECH? I didn't see him taking lots and lots of PEP RALLY TIMEOUTS to motivate a team that should already be motivated that later cost us on a possible challenge. Challenges are important and something that should be precious to a HC. But not to Mr DROPPED PANTS.

He gets away with so much on the WZ it's unreal. He's no answer just a motivational speaker. Soon the real results are going to crumble and you all will see the truth.

Got damn SD, if you don't watch out, you'll be the first Zoner to have a cardiac arrest while posting. Dude, you need to get a grip. You're being waaaaay too melodramatic.
  • JC49
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As for getting Chilo, Bass, and some of the other rookies into the starting line-up I am for it. I didn't like how many of Nolan's high draft picks weren't starting. High draft picks should contribute early, especially if your team isn't considered deep in talent, and ours haven't. They were drafted high to play. Get them in there. If they can't cut it, you find out, and whoever made the pick can answer for it.

Regarding Crabtree getting to start so quickly I am puzzled. Prior to Crabtree's extended hold out, given how good Jones looked before he hurt his shoulder, and what we paid to get him, I thought we should start Jones, Crabtree, and Morgan. I thought the reason we were a little hancuffed at the receiver spot was out of respect for Bruce's veteran status. It seems hypocritical now to start Crabtree. Everybody should have nothing but respect for what Bruce has and continues to accomplish, but playing him doesn't help us get better now and definitely not later.

Bruce isn't tearing it up. Battle has always been reliable and is a much better blocker. We need to see what Jones has. Morgan needs the starting reps to develop. Everyone is wondering what happened to Jason Hill. We have seven receivers on the roster when we never field more than three. If we aren't happy enough with so many of them whay are they on the team. Now Crabtree is in. Our top draft pick should give us something this season. I just don't see the consistent logic or any sense in how our stable of receivers has been handled.
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
San Diego is right on the TO's. Does anyone else realize that blowing those timeouts officially put the game away. If we had a timeout we could have challenged Delanie's non fumble. At that time the score was 21-10 instead Atlanta gets the ball deep in our territory scores a TD and it's a ball game.

Granted this is the 1st time that has happened so I'm giving Singletary a pass, but you can't treat timeouts like Mike Martz use to. If you blow all three of them you can't challenge criticial plays in the game, and that's exactly what happened to us.

what about the timeout the team had to use cuz glen coffee didnt know the play that was called, if the team didnt have to waste that timeout the niners would have had a timoeut to challenge Delanie fumble.

And why isn't it the HC's responsibility that Glen Coffee doesn't know what the hell he's doing? Doesn't the buck stop with the HC? Do we want to now make an exception because it's the untouchable Mike Singletary?


Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
San Diego is right on the TO's. Does anyone else realize that blowing those timeouts officially put the game away. If we had a timeout we could have challenged Delanie's non fumble. At that time the score was 21-10 instead Atlanta gets the ball deep in our territory scores a TD and it's a ball game.

Granted this is the 1st time that has happened so I'm giving Singletary a pass, but you can't treat timeouts like Mike Martz use to. If you blow all three of them you can't challenge criticial plays in the game, and that's exactly what happened to us.

what about the timeout the team had to use cuz glen coffee didnt know the play that was called, if the team didnt have to waste that timeout the niners would have had a timoeut to challenge Delanie fumble.

And why isn't it the HC's responsibility that Glen Coffee doesn't know what the hell he's doing? Doesn't the buck stop with the HC? Do we want to now make an exception because it's the untouchable Mike Singletary?


Im not saying.......nvm its not even worth it
Originally posted by Mustangstud49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see how he is that good. Look at the Denver coach for example. 6 - 0 in his rookie season and his team is always prepared.

Singletary:

Lack of preperation - Where were the X's and O's preperation for the Atlanta game? They got their butt kicked all over the field and didn't appear ready or well coached.

Taking timeouts to give worthless PEP RALLY's... Can you picture Bill Walsh doing this? That PEP RALLY cost a challenge later in the game which was a momentum changer and a game changer if it was a close game. Luckily we got blown out like we often do.

Chilo a starter and rotating Guards... Where is the continuity to the offensive line? Find a starter and stick with it. If you don't know who your starters are you aren't a real good coach.

Elevating DIVA (Crabtree) to a starter after missing all of preseason, all the games and training camp. Obviously he is not ready. He barely knows the plays at this point. And what does it do for the locker room? He's losing his guys. Guys are already complaining. Tree hasn't earned anything yet.

Yelling at opposing teams players. How is this HC worthy? A HC is supposed to be well above this level.

IMO Singletary is a highly emotional guy who wants to win but doesn't control his emotions well enough to be a steady head coach. Mike Nolan was better with game management / time management by far. I don't believe we can win with Singletary in the present state. He needs to tone it down a little and be a coach instead of an inspirational leader and motivational speaker.

Discuss Singletary's good and bad points thus far.
Elevating DIVA (Crabtree) to a starter after missing all of preseason, all the games and training camp. Obviously he is not ready. He barely knows the plays at this point. YOU CAN SAY THE SAMETHING ABOUT MARSHALL.......
SO MARSHALL ISNT A DIVA? DIDN'T HE START FOR THE BRONCOS?

A little different scenario there buddy. Not quite the same.
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
San Diego is right on the TO's. Does anyone else realize that blowing those timeouts officially put the game away. If we had a timeout we could have challenged Delanie's non fumble. At that time the score was 21-10 instead Atlanta gets the ball deep in our territory scores a TD and it's a ball game.

Granted this is the 1st time that has happened so I'm giving Singletary a pass, but you can't treat timeouts like Mike Martz use to. If you blow all three of them you can't challenge criticial plays in the game, and that's exactly what happened to us.

what about the timeout the team had to use cuz glen coffee didnt know the play that was called, if the team didnt have to waste that timeout the niners would have had a timoeut to challenge Delanie fumble.

That's going to happen once a half you have to plan on it. There's going to be a situation were someone's not ready, the clock is running down or you don't like what you see and you're going to burn a timeout. That's why you have to use your timeouts wisely. We didn't and costed us. I'm willing to give Singletary a pass on it because this is the 1st time that he's done that, but you can't have 0 timeouts with 7:00 minutes to go in the half. That's a sure way to cost your team points.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
San Diego is right on the TO's. Does anyone else realize that blowing those timeouts officially put the game away. If we had a timeout we could have challenged Delanie's non fumble. At that time the score was 21-10 instead Atlanta gets the ball deep in our territory scores a TD and it's a ball game.

Granted this is the 1st time that has happened so I'm giving Singletary a pass, but you can't treat timeouts like Mike Martz use to. If you blow all three of them you can't challenge criticial plays in the game, and that's exactly what happened to us.

what about the timeout the team had to use cuz glen coffee didnt know the play that was called, if the team didnt have to waste that timeout the niners would have had a timoeut to challenge Delanie fumble.

That's going to happen once a half you have to plan on it. There's going to be a situation were someone's not ready, the clock is running down or you don't like what you see and you're going to burn a timeout. That's why you have to use your timeouts wisely. We didn't and costed us. I'm willing to give Singletary a pass on it because this is the 1st time that he's done that, but you can't have 0 timeouts with 7:00 minutes to go in the half. That's a sure way to cost your team points.

+1 Again.
It must suck to be a fan of a team and always have something to whine about. Its funny how we are talking about timeouts and a rookie not knowing he needs to be on the field. Whats next, we going to complain about Singletary's socks? Take your pink panties off and enjoy being a fan.
his big mistake was firing mike martz
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I'd like to defend the coach with a winning record if I may. Not saying he's great or anything like that, because that is far premature, but as of now, he's winning games....as is Hill btw.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see how he is that good. Look at the Denver coach for example. 6 - 0 in his rookie season and his team is always prepared.

Yeh, it's amazing. By this standard McDaniels is one of maybe 3 good coaches in NFL history. Walsh went 2-14 (if I'm not mistaking?) his first year...Should have fired him on the spot!

Singletary:

Quote:

Lack of preperation - Where were the X's and O's preperation for the Atlanta game? They got their butt kicked all over the field and didn't appear ready or well coached.

They got out coached badly, but a very very good coach coming off of a bye week. It's hard to beat good coaches after a bye, it really is. But to say he hasn't been prepared or doesn't know X's and O's based on one game is highly overreactive. His preparation for AZ (this year and last) was very good. The team was consistently able to get to Warner, keep the game at their own pace, and use the run (which wasn't working!) to set up the pass when it mattered. AZ is a more talented team across the board, and Singletary out coached them. The Seattle game wasn't as much coaching as Singletary's physical stamp. The Viking's game was phenomenally coached. With Gore coming out on the first run of the game, Staley getting blown up for an almost fumble of the first snap of the game, and Favre scoring very early on, this looked to be a blow out. The staff made absolutely great adjustments at the half and almost beat a very very good team at home. Forget St. Luis, they're not an NFL team and very hard to gauge. Very bad coaching job in ATL, granted. But otherwise a very solid performance.

Quote:

Taking timeouts to give worthless PEP RALLY's... Can you picture Bill Walsh doing this? That PEP RALLY cost a challenge later in the game which was a momentum changer and a game changer if it was a close game. Luckily we got blown out like we often do.

Would Walsh do that? No. He's not Walsh. But maybe Parcells would. Maybe Cower would. Maybe Didka would. Maybe Tomlin would. Some guys coach one way, some guys coach another way. In hindsight those timeouts were badly used, but I do understand that he has a different style about him than Walsh. He's not going to manage the game as well as Walsh, but he may get the most out of his players in his own way. Plus, lets not compare the guy to Walsh. There is one, MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE 2 coaches in the league who can even start to be compared to Bill Walsh. The recently hired Mike Singletary is clearly not one of them. And what do you mean by getting blow our like we "often" do? Sing got blown out twice as I recall. ATL this past game, and Seattle, in his very first game on a short week. I think it's fair to give him a pass given all the circumstances on that one.
Chilo a starter and rotating Guards... Where is the continuity to the offensive line? Find a starter and stick with it. If you don't know who your starters are you aren't a real good coach.
I'm sorry, but to me this comment makes NO sense. How do you establish who your starters are if you don't monitor them in games? Walsh changed starters all the time while establishing who the better players are. It's not ideal, but in your first year as a coach you need to establish who is the best 11 on the field, and trial and error are the ways to do that. The Colts have done this with their O-line, specifically with Ugough. I'm not even defending Sing on this one, just don't agree with the logic at all.

Quote:

Elevating DIVA (Crabtree) to a starter after missing all of preseason, all the games and training camp. Obviously he is not ready. He barely knows the plays at this point. And what does it do for the locker room? He's losing his guys. Guys are already complaining. Tree hasn't earned anything yet.

Before using statements like "obviously" "not ready" lets see him play. If he comes in, runs the wrong routes, causes INTs or 3 and outs, misses blocks, etc etc etc, then I will agree. But lets see the kid play first. Willis was promoted as starter over the vet Derrick Smith instantly, but hey, that wasn't too bad. I agree, he missed training camp, etc, kind of odd that he's starting, but I think its fair to see him play first. What if he is a Willis like talent? How do you keep a guy like that off the field? And please don't make comments like "he's loosing his guys." There is no evidence for this. People said the same thing when he banished Vernon to the showers in the Seattle game. That was clearly overblown. Brandon Jones is upset that he's not getting playing time. So was Jason Hill before Crabtree even signed. There are 53 guys on the roster, and some won't get to play, usually these guys are disappointed. Jones is clearly disappointed. But his comments were not critical of the coaching staff, and he definitely did not sound like he was loosing faith in Sing. Want to see a coach loose his players? Go see the Redskins locker room. You can say what you will about Sing, but loosing his locker room? Simply not true.

Quote:

Yelling at opposing teams players. How is this HC worthy? A HC is supposed to be well above this level.

Bad move by Sing. I agree. Bad move. Appologizd and went on. If this happens again I would highly question his position.

Sorry to be so critical of your comments, but I feel like they are an overreaction to one terribly coached game. He's not perfect, and learning on the go, but so did every coach. Billichik was driven out of Cleveland, and he turned out to be alright. Lets give the guy some time, because as of now, he's winning games.



Sh*t, I'm roll'n with RollinWith21n52! Damn good post.
[ Edited by ObePwnD on Oct 22, 2009 at 8:11 AM ]
Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
his big mistake was firing mike martz

Well anybody is better than Raye.

I mean look at this organiztion. We've had Raye and Hostler as 2 recent OC's on this team. That wouldn't be possible on any other team in the NFL.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by valrod33:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
San Diego is right on the TO's. Does anyone else realize that blowing those timeouts officially put the game away. If we had a timeout we could have challenged Delanie's non fumble. At that time the score was 21-10 instead Atlanta gets the ball deep in our territory scores a TD and it's a ball game.

Granted this is the 1st time that has happened so I'm giving Singletary a pass, but you can't treat timeouts like Mike Martz use to. If you blow all three of them you can't challenge criticial plays in the game, and that's exactly what happened to us.

what about the timeout the team had to use cuz glen coffee didnt know the play that was called, if the team didnt have to waste that timeout the niners would have had a timoeut to challenge Delanie fumble.

That's going to happen once a half you have to plan on it. There's going to be a situation were someone's not ready, the clock is running down or you don't like what you see and you're going to burn a timeout. That's why you have to use your timeouts wisely. We didn't and costed us. I'm willing to give Singletary a pass on it because this is the 1st time that he's done that, but you can't have 0 timeouts with 7:00 minutes to go in the half. That's a sure way to cost your team points.

+1 Again.

Its the coaches job to get the players ready(which i do admit they did not do for the falcons game)once the players are on the field its their job to execute the plays and know the plays that are being called. Its not all the coaches fault the players have to be held accountable for the f**k ups as well.

Coffee should have known the play, Delanie should have secured the ball
Josh Morgan shouldnt drop wide open touchdown passes, because "it came down like a punt" Josh Morgan and Dre Bly shouldnt celebrate so damn early.

This is Sings first year as a head coach there is gonna be some growing pains, he doesnt know it all he is learning on the job, but i wont wont speak for others but i am happy with what the Niners are building, i honestly didnt think we would be in contention to win our division this year but with sing we have the chance to win it and thats more then what we can say when Nolan was here.

So lay off the f**kin hatorade cheer for you team, and quit being so damn negative
Go niners lets go and crush the Texans
The whole time out issue is nitpicking for the sake of something to complain about. Mike Singletary is Mike Singletary and he is his own individual, if he wasn't you'd complain about that.

And if you truly believe Coaches like BW, Jimmy Johnson or any other HC (be it one who is good to great or one who is not cut out to be a HC) would not call or have not called a timeout because they see their players are gassed (which is fairly normal last I checked when the D is on the field for nearly 2/3rd's of the game), are losing their focus due to being frustrated and flustered which in turn usually causes mental mistakes to be made then you are being ignorant to that fact.

No matter how prepared you are one small mental mistake can lead to a big play or chain of mental mistakes that results in a momentum swing in your opponents favor. "Pep Rally" timeouts are in fact common in the NFL and are called to try and stop a team's momentum and get your team back on the same page and get your guys a quick breather. It has nothing to do with the team's preparation during the week and you can't really prepare for all in game adjustments that teams will make. You seriously need to stop being ignorant to the fact and accept it. You don't have to like it but you should become accepting of it because it likely will never go away.
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I'd like to defend the coach with a winning record if I may. Not saying he's great or anything like that, because that is far premature, but as of now, he's winning games....as is Hill btw.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see how he is that good. Look at the Denver coach for example. 6 - 0 in his rookie season and his team is always prepared.

Yeh, it's amazing. By this standard McDaniels is one of maybe 3 good coaches in NFL history. Walsh went 2-14 (if I'm not mistaking?) his first year...Should have fired him on the spot!

Singletary:

Quote:

Lack of preperation - Where were the X's and O's preperation for the Atlanta game? They got their butt kicked all over the field and didn't appear ready or well coached.

They got out coached badly, but a very very good coach coming off of a bye week. It's hard to beat good coaches after a bye, it really is. But to say he hasn't been prepared or doesn't know X's and O's based on one game is highly overreactive. His preparation for AZ (this year and last) was very good. The team was consistently able to get to Warner, keep the game at their own pace, and use the run (which wasn't working!) to set up the pass when it mattered. AZ is a more talented team across the board, and Singletary out coached them. The Seattle game wasn't as much coaching as Singletary's physical stamp. The Viking's game was phenomenally coached. With Gore coming out on the first run of the game, Staley getting blown up for an almost fumble of the first snap of the game, and Favre scoring very early on, this looked to be a blow out. The staff made absolutely great adjustments at the half and almost beat a very very good team at home. Forget St. Luis, they're not an NFL team and very hard to gauge. Very bad coaching job in ATL, granted. But otherwise a very solid performance.

Quote:

Taking timeouts to give worthless PEP RALLY's... Can you picture Bill Walsh doing this? That PEP RALLY cost a challenge later in the game which was a momentum changer and a game changer if it was a close game. Luckily we got blown out like we often do.

Would Walsh do that? No. He's not Walsh. But maybe Parcells would. Maybe Cower would. Maybe Didka would. Maybe Tomlin would. Some guys coach one way, some guys coach another way. In hindsight those timeouts were badly used, but I do understand that he has a different style about him than Walsh. He's not going to manage the game as well as Walsh, but he may get the most out of his players in his own way. Plus, lets not compare the guy to Walsh. There is one, MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE 2 coaches in the league who can even start to be compared to Bill Walsh. The recently hired Mike Singletary is clearly not one of them. And what do you mean by getting blow our like we "often" do? Sing got blown out twice as I recall. ATL this past game, and Seattle, in his very first game on a short week. I think it's fair to give him a pass given all the circumstances on that one.
Chilo a starter and rotating Guards... Where is the continuity to the offensive line? Find a starter and stick with it. If you don't know who your starters are you aren't a real good coach.
I'm sorry, but to me this comment makes NO sense. How do you establish who your starters are if you don't monitor them in games? Walsh changed starters all the time while establishing who the better players are. It's not ideal, but in your first year as a coach you need to establish who is the best 11 on the field, and trial and error are the ways to do that. The Colts have done this with their O-line, specifically with Ugough. I'm not even defending Sing on this one, just don't agree with the logic at all.

Quote:

Elevating DIVA (Crabtree) to a starter after missing all of preseason, all the games and training camp. Obviously he is not ready. He barely knows the plays at this point. And what does it do for the locker room? He's losing his guys. Guys are already complaining. Tree hasn't earned anything yet.

Before using statements like "obviously" "not ready" lets see him play. If he comes in, runs the wrong routes, causes INTs or 3 and outs, misses blocks, etc etc etc, then I will agree. But lets see the kid play first. Willis was promoted as starter over the vet Derrick Smith instantly, but hey, that wasn't too bad. I agree, he missed training camp, etc, kind of odd that he's starting, but I think its fair to see him play first. What if he is a Willis like talent? How do you keep a guy like that off the field? And please don't make comments like "he's loosing his guys." There is no evidence for this. People said the same thing when he banished Vernon to the showers in the Seattle game. That was clearly overblown. Brandon Jones is upset that he's not getting playing time. So was Jason Hill before Crabtree even signed. There are 53 guys on the roster, and some won't get to play, usually these guys are disappointed. Jones is clearly disappointed. But his comments were not critical of the coaching staff, and he definitely did not sound like he was loosing faith in Sing. Want to see a coach loose his players? Go see the Redskins locker room. You can say what you will about Sing, but loosing his locker room? Simply not true.

Quote:

Yelling at opposing teams players. How is this HC worthy? A HC is supposed to be well above this level.

Bad move by Sing. I agree. Bad move. Appologizd and went on. If this happens again I would highly question his position.

Sorry to be so critical of your comments, but I feel like they are an overreaction to one terribly coached game. He's not perfect, and learning on the go, but so did every coach. Billichik was driven out of Cleveland, and he turned out to be alright. Lets give the guy some time, because as of now, he's winning games.
OMG!! Are you using logic and reason in Niner Talk?
Originally posted by Esco:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by Esco:
Originally posted by Esco:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Esco:
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by Thrash88:
If you bring in Lebron James and you already have Caron Butler playing small forward I'm pretty sure you put in Lebron A.S.A.P. God people do you know ANYTHING about football. Crabtree is better then Morgan and Morgan has got all the chances in the world he's dropped a touchdown and ran a lazy catch to the goal line when he should have scored. You put the best people on the field I don't care about chemistry if you have a weak point. That's like saying put Barry Sims at left tackle and sit Staley because they have better chemistry omg SHUT er up rookie. You obviously do not understand football and you will see this Sunday that our team will have a gameplan and we will play a great football game and don't be suprised if Crabtree gets in the endzone, I sure won't.

p.s. I hope Singletary uses all his timeouts in the first drive and points at the screen and says hey webzone fans, EAT IT!

There is NO WAY that Crabtree knows the amount of playbook that a starter should. 2 mistakes from a 2nd year player doesn't negate the fact that Crabtree does not, and can not know the plabook. PERIOD!

Singletary has stated from day one that players will EARN their playing time.....how exactly has Crabtree done that? By catching some passes from Alex Smith during the bye? I don't think so. So now EVERY player that was buying into that BS line now see's that EARNING your play time is not the case. That all the rah rah Singeltary has been blowing up their rears is just that, smoke being blown up their rears.

Singletary better hope the team doesn't decide to hold HIM accountable for his decisions the way he does them, or he may have some difficult questions to answer.


Think about things from a different POV for just a moment

Do you think the Yorks want to see their new big shot multi-million dollar toy EARNING his time? Doubt it. Football is a business first and foremost and the Yorks are business people. I'm sure there was considerable pressure on the coaching staff over the bye week to make sure Crabtree was in position to be on the field as early and a much as possible.

While I'm not ruling out the possibility that Singletary didn't make this discussion on his own, it doesn't exactly seem like his MO. Remember Sing doesn't have the same freedom that Nolan had during his first 3 years.

He's pretty much calling the shots on personnel and who gets playing time though.

Which is why everyone should stop jumping to conclusions on Crabtree starting. All starting means is that you line up during the initial series of the game. I've watched several interviews with Sing so far this week where he's been quoted saying that Josh will probably get more plays that Crabtree. I think the whole Crabtree starting thing is more of a publicity stunt then an actual major move. We will just have to wait and see.

Here's a link basically saying what I was getting at
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/San-Francisco-49ers-rsquo-Morgan-getting-more-p?urn=nfl,197547

Try to minimize the importance of being labled "starter" all you want, however THATS what these players strive to be. Regardless of playing time, being labled as "starter" means something to these players. GOOD players have left teams and gone on to others because of who is labled as starter and who is not, regardless of explained or predicted playing time.

Don't say it doesn't matter who starts, cause it does.

Well the players seem to be singing a different tune. Nobody challenged the point I made about football being a business first. Check your hurt feelings at to door.

So instead of continueing our deiscussion you take to making assumptions about my emotional state huh? It's ok to feel like you lost an argument, no need to project about my feelings.....

By the way, 2 WR's have made comments that weren't exactly with a smile in regards to Crabtree.....

You are just plain wrong Esco. It may not be a big deal to you or me or any other fan, but if you think for a moment that it doesn't matter to the players who is labled as starter and who is not, you are more nieve then your posting makes you appear to be, although I doubt that personally. I think you are simply defending an ill conceived argument at this point.