49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by DonJulio:

Originally posted by saj4423:
everyone lost in this one.

Did the Niners really lose?


Does 3-1 mean anything to you? (with, in my opinion, that one loss has an asterisk that says *the Niners fought a worthy battle, but "lost triumphantly")

As far as Crabtree everyone lost. His first year is meaningless he is going to be so far behind.

Their 3-1 record had nothing to do with the question.

[ Edited by saj4423 on Oct 7, 2009 at 08:48:58 ]

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Only thingthat went up were incentives, that's why it's taking so long to get particulars same thing is happening in the Edwards deal wit NY, just it's with draft picks.

If that's the case, how easily those incentives can be reached are what the issue is here. If they're easily/reasonably reachable, the Niners did in fact give some ground. If they're not, then it's just fluff and Crabtree's camp caved. I'd imagine that both sides gave a little ground.

But the fact that we don't know what the contract is STILL means that determining a "winner" in this is extremely premature.

There easy to reach in a contract, not to report, you have to refer back to 11th grade economics to get, and that's after the deal gets leaked out, same thing is happening with the JEts-Browns deal.

Originally posted by waiting4number6:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Only thingthat went up were incentives, that's why it's taking so long to get particulars same thing is happening in the Edwards deal wit NY, just it's with draft picks.

If that's the case, how easily those incentives can be reached are what the issue is here. If they're easily/reasonably reachable, the Niners did in fact give some ground. If they're not, then it's just fluff and Crabtree's camp caved. I'd imagine that both sides gave a little ground.

But the fact that we don't know what the contract is STILL means that determining a "winner" in this is extremely premature.

There easy to reach in a contract, not to report, you have to refer back to 11th grade economics to get, and that's after the deal gets leaked out, same thing is happening with the JEts-Browns deal.

While I apparently also need to refer back to 11th grade English to decipher your post, I THINK you're saying that we don't know the incentives or the terms of the deal. That's exactly my point. How can we determine who "won" until the terms of the deal is leaked?

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Only thingthat went up were incentives, that's why it's taking so long to get particulars same thing is happening in the Edwards deal wit NY, just it's with draft picks.

If that's the case, how easily those incentives can be reached are what the issue is here. If they're easily/reasonably reachable, the Niners did in fact give some ground. If they're not, then it's just fluff and Crabtree's camp caved. I'd imagine that both sides gave a little ground.

But the fact that we don't know what the contract is STILL means that determining a "winner" in this is extremely premature.

There easy to reach in a contract, not to report, you have to refer back to 11th grade economics to get, and that's after the deal gets leaked out, same thing is happening with the JEts-Browns deal.

While I apparently also need to refer back to 11th grade English to decipher your post, I THINK you're saying that we don't know the incentives or the terms of the deal. That's exactly my point. How can we determine who "won" until the terms of the deal is leaked?

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Ha you don't buy, that's cute, Schefter said what he said, which is really Crabtree isn't getting a better deal. Minus the incentives of course, which again would of been given and negotiated before hadn't Crabtree puled a Cutler.

How can he know who caved if he doesn't know the specific details of the contract? He'd be reporting the details of the deal if he knew them. I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

Reign...yes, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that the Crabtree camp caved, but I don't think that it's "safe to assume" that they did. Both sides have held steady up to this point, but something prompted Parker & Crabtree to get on that plane. It could either be them realizing that they weren't gonna get any better than what they had, OR the Niners improved the offer to an acceptable level for them.

There's nothing to indicate either way. I definitely hope Crabtree caved though, we're paying him too much as it is.

Wouldn't make sense for the Niners to cave now. They already wasted his entire rookie year (rookie WR's barely ever make an impact and now he has missed training camp and a quarter of the season) in order to stick to their guns. They had to keep sticking to them, take our offer or sit out. Sure they might make a small concession but I highly doubt anything great.

Whereas Crabtree would only lose money by sitting out. He had to break eventually if he really cared about his money. He wouldn't go top 10 next year and then after that every team would just say "Well if we draft him and don't want to pay him, he will sit out, lets just take a more sure thing." And he would have slipped into even less money.

I'd still stick to safe to assume.

MC Hammer did, for now he has a whole new legion of fans.

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Ha you don't buy, that's cute, Schefter said what he said, which is really Crabtree isn't getting a better deal. Minus the incentives of course, which again would of been given and negotiated before hadn't Crabtree puled a Cutler.

How can he know who caved if he doesn't know the specific details of the contract? He'd be reporting the details of the deal if he knew them. I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

Reign...yes, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that the Crabtree camp caved, but I don't think that it's "safe to assume" that they did. Both sides have held steady up to this point, but something prompted Parker & Crabtree to get on that plane. It could either be them realizing that they weren't gonna get any better than what they had, OR the Niners improved the offer to an acceptable level for them.

There's nothing to indicate either way. I definitely hope Crabtree caved though, we're paying him too much as it is.

Wouldn't make sense for the Niners to cave now. They already wasted his entire rookie year (rookie WR's barely ever make an impact and now he has missed training camp and a quarter of the season) in order to stick to their guns. They had to keep sticking to them, take our offer or sit out. Sure they might make a small concession but I highly doubt anything great.

Whereas Crabtree would only lose money by sitting out. He had to break eventually if he really cared about his money. He wouldn't go top 10 next year and then after that every team would just say "Well if we draft him and don't want to pay him, he will sit out, lets just take a more sure thing." And he would have slipped into even less money.

I'd still stick to safe to assume.

I think it definitely makes more sense that Crabtree caved in. He saw that the Niners were playing well, and decided to bite the bullet and take a deal. The most likely settled on some incentives that would pump his contract up if he plays well, and that's probably what got him to change his mind.

Originally posted by blunt_probe:
MC Hammer did, for now he has a whole new legion of fans.

GMTA!!!

Originally posted by Jakemall:
MC HAMMER WON!!!

YOU can't TOUCH THIS!!!

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Ha you don't buy, that's cute, Schefter said what he said, which is really Crabtree isn't getting a better deal. Minus the incentives of course, which again would of been given and negotiated before hadn't Crabtree puled a Cutler.

How can he know who caved if he doesn't know the specific details of the contract? He'd be reporting the details of the deal if he knew them. I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

Reign...yes, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that the Crabtree camp caved, but I don't think that it's "safe to assume" that they did. Both sides have held steady up to this point, but something prompted Parker & Crabtree to get on that plane. It could either be them realizing that they weren't gonna get any better than what they had, OR the Niners improved the offer to an acceptable level for them.

There's nothing to indicate either way. I definitely hope Crabtree caved though, we're paying him too much as it is.

Wouldn't make sense for the Niners to cave now. They already wasted his entire rookie year (rookie WR's barely ever make an impact and now he has missed training camp and a quarter of the season) in order to stick to their guns. They had to keep sticking to them, take our offer or sit out. Sure they might make a small concession but I highly doubt anything great.

Whereas Crabtree would only lose money by sitting out. He had to break eventually if he really cared about his money. He wouldn't go top 10 next year and then after that every team would just say "Well if we draft him and don't want to pay him, he will sit out, lets just take a more sure thing." And he would have slipped into even less money.

I'd still stick to safe to assume.

I think it definitely makes more sense that Crabtree caved in. He saw that the Niners were playing well, and decided to bite the bullet and take a deal. The most likely settled on some incentives that would pump his contract up if he plays well, and that's probably what got him to change his mind.

If I had to bet, I'd agree with you guys. But the fact of the matter is that we don't know the details of the contract, so judging it is premature. Furthermore, if the contract is anywhere near what it was reported to be (up to $1 within Raji), I think you could make a case that the Niners "caved" long ago. If Crabtree's making in the range of $18M in guaranteed money, he's one of the more well compensated receivers in the game. Hard to make a case that he comes out the loser in this, IMO.

I wish we would have traded the pick.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Ha you don't buy, that's cute, Schefter said what he said, which is really Crabtree isn't getting a better deal. Minus the incentives of course, which again would of been given and negotiated before hadn't Crabtree puled a Cutler.

How can he know who caved if he doesn't know the specific details of the contract? He'd be reporting the details of the deal if he knew them. I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

Reign...yes, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that the Crabtree camp caved, but I don't think that it's "safe to assume" that they did. Both sides have held steady up to this point, but something prompted Parker & Crabtree to get on that plane. It could either be them realizing that they weren't gonna get any better than what they had, OR the Niners improved the offer to an acceptable level for them.

There's nothing to indicate either way. I definitely hope Crabtree caved though, we're paying him too much as it is.

Wouldn't make sense for the Niners to cave now. They already wasted his entire rookie year (rookie WR's barely ever make an impact and now he has missed training camp and a quarter of the season) in order to stick to their guns. They had to keep sticking to them, take our offer or sit out. Sure they might make a small concession but I highly doubt anything great.

Whereas Crabtree would only lose money by sitting out. He had to break eventually if he really cared about his money. He wouldn't go top 10 next year and then after that every team would just say "Well if we draft him and don't want to pay him, he will sit out, lets just take a more sure thing." And he would have slipped into even less money.

I'd still stick to safe to assume.

I think it definitely makes more sense that Crabtree caved in. He saw that the Niners were playing well, and decided to bite the bullet and take a deal. The most likely settled on some incentives that would pump his contract up if he plays well, and that's probably what got him to change his mind.

If I had to bet, I'd agree with you guys. But the fact of the matter is that we don't know the details of the contract, so judging it is premature. Furthermore, if the contract is anywhere near what it was reported to be (up to $1 within Raji), I think you could make a case that the Niners "caved" long ago. If Crabtree's making in the range of $18M in guaranteed money, he's one of the more well compensated receivers in the game. Hard to make a case that he comes out the loser in this, IMO.

I wish we would have traded the pick.

I guess you never want a first round pick then huh? Thats just part of the NFL draft.

But IF it is $18M guaranteed it is less than DHB who got $23.5M guaranteed. Which makes it a relative steal IMO. I've been watching Raider games and DHB sucks.

Nobody is saying MC didn't "win" when it comes to a ton of money for an unproven NFL player. Just that the Niners didn't give in to his ridiculous "I should have been top 5, so pay me like it" antics. I hope they paid him #10 money.

Originally posted by 9erReign:
I guess you never want a first round pick then huh? Thats just part of the NFL draft.

But IF it is $18M guaranteed it is less than DHB who got $23.5M guaranteed. Which makes it a relative steal IMO. I've been watching Raider games and DHB sucks.

Nobody is saying MC didn't "win" when it comes to a ton of money for an unproven NFL player. Just that the Niners didn't give in to his ridiculous "I should have been top 5, so pay me like it" antics. I hope they paid him #10 money.

Actually, as a general rule...no, I don't. At least not a high one. They're grossly overpaid for their risk/reward ratio, and while that's just how it is with the draft, it doesn't change the fact that their salaries are part of a system that employs a hard salary cap, and they're paid comparably to high level free agents who have considerably less risk attached to them.

DHB got $23.5M guaranteed, but greater insanity doesn't make lesser insanity more palatable. I think that there's a reason that the teams that are often considered to be "cheap" are the ones who are consistently contenders. (Steelers, Pats, Eagles) They don't overpay free agents, including their own, and don't make a habit of paying unproven players top dollar.

Originally posted by valrod33:
the niners cuz we have what many believed to be the bst player in the draft, but when it comes down to it who cares all that matters is we have crabs

Don't worry, I think there's a lotion or shampoo that can help, but might have to shave those areas just in case.

Who Won ?? That won't really be determined until he plays a few games. His productivity will determine his worth just as any other high priced rookie out there.

If he tears up the league and becomes very productive, then the 49er's won. If he turns out to be a dud, then Crabtree won because he still gets paid a few mil.

My take on this is that after the Jets and the Cowboys had been named as the possible tamperers (if there is such a word), if true would have eliminated his presumed "Aces in the Hole".

At this point, he had no choice but to go back to the bargaining table and hammer (no pun intended) out a deal or risk the chance of being traded or selected (in the draft) lower than his current number 10 position. That could have easily happened had he stayed out for the remainder of the year.

Let's hope we both win, but for now...Niners did easily...especially if Crabtree puts up big stats in the next few years.

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by 9erReign:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by waiting4number6:
Ha you don't buy, that's cute, Schefter said what he said, which is really Crabtree isn't getting a better deal. Minus the incentives of course, which again would of been given and negotiated before hadn't Crabtree puled a Cutler.

How can he know who caved if he doesn't know the specific details of the contract? He'd be reporting the details of the deal if he knew them. I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

Reign...yes, I think it's possible and maybe even likely that the Crabtree camp caved, but I don't think that it's "safe to assume" that they did. Both sides have held steady up to this point, but something prompted Parker & Crabtree to get on that plane. It could either be them realizing that they weren't gonna get any better than what they had, OR the Niners improved the offer to an acceptable level for them.

There's nothing to indicate either way. I definitely hope Crabtree caved though, we're paying him too much as it is.

Wouldn't make sense for the Niners to cave now. They already wasted his entire rookie year (rookie WR's barely ever make an impact and now he has missed training camp and a quarter of the season) in order to stick to their guns. They had to keep sticking to them, take our offer or sit out. Sure they might make a small concession but I highly doubt anything great.

Whereas Crabtree would only lose money by sitting out. He had to break eventually if he really cared about his money. He wouldn't go top 10 next year and then after that every team would just say "Well if we draft him and don't want to pay him, he will sit out, lets just take a more sure thing." And he would have slipped into even less money.

I'd still stick to safe to assume.

I think it definitely makes more sense that Crabtree caved in. He saw that the Niners were playing well, and decided to bite the bullet and take a deal. The most likely settled on some incentives that would pump his contract up if he plays well, and that's probably what got him to change his mind.

If I had to bet, I'd agree with you guys. But the fact of the matter is that we don't know the details of the contract, so judging it is premature. Furthermore, if the contract is anywhere near what it was reported to be (up to $1 within Raji), I think you could make a case that the Niners "caved" long ago. If Crabtree's making in the range of $18M in guaranteed money, he's one of the more well compensated receivers in the game. Hard to make a case that he comes out the loser in this, IMO.

I wish we would have traded the pick.

I guess you never want a first round pick then huh? Thats just part of the NFL draft.

But IF it is $18M guaranteed it is less than DHB who got $23.5M guaranteed. Which makes it a relative steal IMO. I've been watching Raider games and DHB sucks.

Nobody is saying MC didn't "win" when it comes to a ton of money for an unproven NFL player. Just that the Niners didn't give in to his ridiculous "I should have been top 5, so pay me like it" antics. I hope they paid him #10 money.

And because of that, I say that it's fair for both.