49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by domesik:
Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

Touche.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

The super agent you had sooooo much respect for, and supported so vehemently got bent the F*** over and cost his client some of the most important months in his NFL career for nothing. It is obvious to anyone with a little bit of knowledge in regards to NFL contracts, and this is your response?

The Niners have already proven the ability and willingness to think outside the box and agreeing to status symbol contracts when they structured Clements deal the way they did. As reported this deal could have been done in July. The last 72days was nothing more then a detriment to Michael Crabtree's career and NOTHING more.

[ Edited by WINiner on Oct 7, 2009 at 15:40:26 ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Wow! Got Sophistry?

Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
^^ Where the hell did you get $40M from?

-9fA

NFL.com
Signing status of 2009 NFL Draft first-round picks
1st round signing status

Cheers.

I still think you're wrong on this one.

I don't see how this contract is in anyway unique. It is unique because of the holdout into the regular season, it is NOT unique because of his expected draft status.

What mattered to me was the guaranteed money. Or the "real money" as Sanders likes to put it. The fact that we remained inside the slot is big deal for me. If I recall correctly, you claimed that we would have to go outside the slot for the deal to be done.

This is just me speculating, but i doubt that a good portion of those escalators are going to be hit. I think that Crabtree caved seeing how we were able to win without him. If we were 0-4 instead, i think it would be us who would be initiating the phone call.

-9fA

The escalators are rather unlikely, whereas the escalators in Raji's contract are much, much more attainable/likely. And as you said, the guaranteed money is only $17M.

And all of it falls WELL short of the often discussed DHB figure.

yep and Crabtree and Parker lost on this deal. Still a nice deal for crabtree. Crabtree and Parker lose because DHB is the winner in this deal. I for one thought that Crabtree was worth every penny of what DHB got. And I am sure thats what they thought, but they could not play the 49ers and the NFL like they thought. Crabtree could have had this deal months ago and could be catching TD passes now.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

-25 cool points for giving out cool points...

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

It's the act of using a confusing or illogical argument for the purpose of deceit.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Oct 7, 2009 at 15:44:46 ]

This sounds like it needs a new title thread:

Maddog vs. Everyone else on Webzone (Crabtree Contract discussion- Who Won?)

Originally posted by PA9erFaithful:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

-25 cool points for giving out cool points...

Ha!

Wait...

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Wow! Got Sophistry?

MadDog, ever consider a career in politics? You are simply the Master of Spin! You'd do very well there I think.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

It's the act of using confusing or illogical argument for the purpose of deceit.

sweet.... that is going in to my vocabulary... hopefully I can use it at work tonight

how is it pronounced?

sof-is-stree?

sa-fist-ree?

Some Crow anyone?

Come on - this is CLEARLY a win for the 49ers. CLEARLY.

- 6 year deal

- $17 mil guarantee

- Incentives require PRO BOWL (for 2 seasons?) play AND 80% of offensive snaps (so there's no way he can do that this season and only has 2 years to accomplish this in a run-oriented offense.

- NO OPTION BONUS, but "discretionary" compensation subject to forfeit if he holds out in future years?

LOL! This is a lock'em up deal and probably WORSE than the deal he would have done if it were a standard 5-year rook deal with the traditional option, escalators and incentives.

You just can't spin this as a win-win. Parker has lost MAJOR credibility as an agent on this one. Teams are now going to take harder lines with his clients. 49ers got everything they wanted and then some.

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

It's the act of using confusing or illogical argument for the purpose of deceit.

sweet.... that is going in to my vocabulary... hopefully I can use it at work tonight

how is it pronounced?

sof-is-stree?

sa-fist-ree?

I think it's the first one, but I'm not totally sure. A more modern way of saying the same thing is,. "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bulls**t."

[ Edited by LA9erFan on Oct 7, 2009 at 15:48:35 ]

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

It's the act of using confusing or illogical argument for the purpose of deceit.

sweet.... that is going in to my vocabulary... hopefully I can use it at work tonight

how is it pronounced?

sof-is-stree?

sa-fist-ree?

I think it's the first one, but I'm not totally sure. A more modern way of saying the same thing is,. "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bulls**t."

Ah, you fixed it before I could point out your minor flaw. That's a great saying btw.