49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

It's the act of using confusing or illogical argument for the purpose of deceit.

sweet.... that is going in to my vocabulary... hopefully I can use it at work tonight

how is it pronounced?

sof-is-stree?

sa-fist-ree?

I think it's the first one, but I'm not totally sure. A more modern way of saying the same thing is,. "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bulls**t."

Ah, you fixed it before I could point out your minor flaw. That's a great saying btw.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

It's tough to tell who got owned more—Parker or you.

Originally posted by NinerGM:



Some Crow anyone?

Come on - this is CLEARLY a win for the 49ers. CLEARLY.

- 6 year deal

- $17 mil guarantee

- Incentives require PRO BOWL (for 2 seasons?) play AND 80% of offensive snaps (so there's no way he can do that this season and only has 2 years to accomplish this in a run-oriented offense.

- NO OPTION BONUS, but "discretionary" compensation subject to forfeit if he holds out in future years?

LOL! This is a lock'em up deal and probably WORSE than the deal he would have done if it were a standard 5-year rook deal with the traditional option, escalators and incentives.

You just can't spin this as a win-win. Parker has lost MAJOR credibility as an agent on this one. Teams are now going to take harder lines with his clients. 49ers got everything they wanted and then some.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

It's tough to tell who got owned more—Parker or you.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Rikimaru03:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Holy crap. +25 cool points in my book for the proper use of the word "sophistry".

what does it mean pete? what does it mean?

It's the act of using confusing or illogical argument for the purpose of deceit.

sweet.... that is going in to my vocabulary... hopefully I can use it at work tonight

how is it pronounced?

sof-is-stree?

sa-fist-ree?

I think it's the first one, but I'm not totally sure. A more modern way of saying the same thing is,. "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bulls**t."

Ah, you fixed it before I could point out your minor flaw. That's a great saying btw.

Yeah, but that "minor" flaw completely changed the meaning of it.

I'd say that 75% of my posts are minor streams of consciousness that I don't really re-read, so half the time I go back later and say...."the f**k did I just say"?

Thinking about it, I almost like the meaning it had in your original post. It's like your on a brilliant roll, might as well mix in a little bulls**t to keep the continuity.

Originally posted by backontop:
No matter how much I get harassed and accused at least I will have peace of mind that I am not hated more than Maddog. Thank you Maddog for being you.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by backontop:
No matter how much I get harassed and accused at least I will have peace of mind that I am not hated more than Maddog. Thank you Maddog for being you.

Who hates you?

Originally posted by domesik:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The most important thing is that the deal is done, whether someone "won" or "lost".

In the end, as I predicted for some time now, it would take a unique contract to get both sides to agree, and one that both sides can claim victory. And, both sides did win, if the argument was about maintaining or breeching the slot.

And, as I predicted, the Niners held onto the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree signed out of the slot in total money.

While Mike Florio goes around pounding his chest in "victory", since he was an antagonist against the Crabtree postion from the beginning (Crabtree must have done something to him in a previous life), even he concedes that Crabtree's deal is better than Raji's (not in that language), as Raji can only close up to Crabtree's numbers if he hits his incentives, while Crabtree does not reach his. If both hit all incentives, Crabtree's contract far surpasses Raji's.

And, while those who stood against Crabtree are happy that this is a six year deal, and calculate the numbers in this way, in the end, with 5 or 6 missed games in 2009, this is really a prorated 5 2/3 year deal that could be voided down to a 4 2/3 year deal.

So, the real calculation for Crabtree's number should not be at 6 years, but 5.66 years, since he did not join the team until today.

So, with no penalties for signing late, 5.66 years at a base of $32 million (6 years at $40 million is the number if escalators are hit) is not bad. Certainly, Crabtree and Parker won this battle. Raji's base is 5 years at $22.5 million.

I think both sides are satisfied with the contract. The Niners admirably fought hard to stick to the slot in guaranteed money, and Crabtree was able to generate an outstanding payday ahead over the life of this contract. It will be interesting to hear how this contract played out in the mind of Eugene Parker, but he rarely, if ever, discusses contracts with the media. He is more of a ghost than anything else.

P.S. I believe that some people who are desperate to claim a Crabtree defeat state that this contract was the same offered in July. I sincerely doubt that this was the same one. I think both sides met in the middle, and this contract was not the one originally offered by the Niners (even in a 5-year deal).

Cheers.

Simply unbelievable.

Come on bro, you didn't really think MD would admit to being wrong. It's just not in his personality. MadDog, I'm on 49ers ecstacy right now, so I love all things 49ers, including all the fans, including you.....

I love you man.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
I'm still a little confused on the contract breakdown.

He has 17 million n guaranteed money. And can gain an extra 8 million with a highly unlikely (but possible if he's a beast) 8 million excellerator to bring it up to 40 million total. But what exactly is the other 15 million? Is this signing bonus stuff or what?

The other 15 million is base salary, or yearly salary. So hypothetically, it could be...

2009: 1 million
2010: 2 million
2011: 2 million
2012: 3 million
2013: 3 million
2014: 4 million

Those numbers aren't accurate, just used for the purpose of explanation.

So then he still got more than Raji since Raji only has 22.5 million(not including escalators).

If you take out the 6th year to make all things equal it's 5 years 28 million (17 guaranteed) as apposed to 5 years 22.5 million (18 million guaranteed) with a 6 million escalator. Plus Crabtree has missed 4 games.

It sure seems to me like no one won or lost and they pretty much met in the middle.