Stop blaming Raye . . .

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Ok, here's the deal from someone who knows something about this type of situation, Tony Dungy, who just went over this with some film illustrating how the defense f**ked up.

Right from his mouth: The 49ers didn't defend this well, they defended the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and the end zone. This was a situation we (the colts) used practice once a week on Saturday, put the ball on the thirty and practice a "last play of the game" defense. Mike Singletary will learn from this and not let this this happen again, you can bet they will be practicing it once a week from now on, is what he said.

There you go, from somebody who knows what the f**k they are talking about. This loss didn't have a f**king thing to do with the offense, it was the defense who played an outstanding game who f**ked up in the end, and it was because neither Manusky nor Singletary recognized that they needed to focus on defending the sideline and the endzone. Before the snap...the middle of the field was loaded up defensively.

Not to pick a fight, but you don't think that maybe if we got a first down on our last drive, we would've won? You don't think our Offense bears any blame for failing to run some 90 seconds off the clock? Due to VERY predictable playcalling?

In my eyes, Raye is just as at fault as the 'D'.

All woulda coulda shoulda. I can name a thousand other woulda coulda shoulda scenarios. A dropped ball, a bit of a wrong route, giving up on a route a missed block, a bad play call, a bad call by the refs..it goes on and on and on. All of it is part of the game, all of it woulda shoulda coulda. Stick with the facts, which is that the defense did not defend that play well at all, and it cost the game. The offense didd it's job, including the coaches...they put enough points on the board to win the game. Then we gave it to the defense to win for us, which was wholly the smart, odds on thing to do considering a field goal would not do it for them and they had no timeouts with one minute left and the d hadn't even allowed them to drive into filed goal range the entire second half, yet alone 80 yards and a td.

This reminds of the argument about the Patsy's when they lost the superbowl, how the offense failed them when the reality was that the defense failed them because they didn't stop the Giants from scoring after the Patsy's had gone ahead.

The bottom line was that it was a much safer bet to put the game in the defense's hand. It's a team game, when the game gets turned over to the defense (regardless of why) it's their job to do their part which is first and foremost not allow the score. When it gets turned over to the offense, it's their job to score enough to win, and they did that. It ain't the offense's job to get first downs, convert 3rd downs or anything of the sort, it is simply to score more points than the other guy, anyway you can get it, and to protect that ball along the way.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? It's 3 games in a row that the defense held our opponents in check and all the offense had to do was get first downs to ice it away. All 3 games they couldn't and went 3 and outs, giving the other guys last ditch opportunities. If we could have just gotten a first down near the end today, Favre wouldn't have had a chance at last-minute heroics! The offense, thanks in great part to aye, is anemic and something needs to be done. Now that gore's probably out, it may actually force him to get a little creative. Pray that it's so!

I have watched the games, now here is the reality of the situation you speak of:

"The 49ers have ended all three of their games the same way, by lining up with only one wide receiver and running three times in a row. I do think there are times when offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye should show more trust in Shaun Hill. This was not necessarily one of those times. The 49ers had thrown eight previous times on third down in this game without converting one of them, including a third-and-1 play when they tried to spread the field with three receivers instead of running. Their best pass-protector, left tackle Joe Staley, had suffered a leg injury late in the game. Barry Sims was at left tackle. If Raye had called for a pass and something had gone terribly wrong, the 49ers would be hearing about how they strayed from their identity at the worst possible time, and how Raye should have known the passing game hadn't done anything on third down all game, even with Staley. The 49ers' defense allowed a 32-yard touchdown pass on the final play when only a 32-yard touchdown pass could beat them. That was the bigger story to me. "

That's the reality, on the ground, instead of from a the armchair coaches position.

Now to say the offense is anemic is complete and utter BS. It's ugly as hell, but it's been damn good enough to win. Here are the stats to prove it:

Avg points for: 22.3
Avg points against: 17.7

You see, 22.3 points is plenty good enough to win when you have a defense that only allows an average of 17.7. The offense is good enough to win, with the defense we have, and vice versa. Utter BS about the offense being anemic, as it ignores the most important stat of all, points for.

I have a theory, I think there is a lot of people who simply don't have the nerves to sit through this type of football. It's too uncomfortable for them, win or lose. Gives them ulcer's, even when we win.

Well, actually it's 19.97 points per game for the offense. At least 7 points yesterday was from a blocked field goal and return. To me that's not enough offense to consistently win.

LB

Yeah, well there you go. I knew someone would chime in about that. But it works both ways. You don't get your cake and get to eat it to. Didn't the ST give up 7 yesterday as well? Doesn't that show up in the points against stats, on the defense side of the ball? How come your working the math to support your argument and neglecting to work it the other way? It's a wash, ST giveth and taketh away yesterday.

Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return.

We can play this woulda shoulda could game for ever and regardless, the outcome is the same...the defense failed in the end, after we had accumulated enough points to win.

A little sensitive are we? Please excuse me Sir but your argument was that the offense was scoring enough points to win. I respectfully disagree. Under 20 points per game average is NOT enough for me and NOT enough to beat teams with a more potent offense. Our defense is great but cannot be expected to keep opposing teams under 20 points all the time.

I think it's the offense that failed and not the defense as you stated. They only scored 17 points yesterday. Not enough. I do blame the play caller (Sing and or Raye IDK). The non-stop running into a stacked box all day especially the last 3 plays was mind blowing. We averaged 2.2 yards per carry yesterday. The D did not fail, we needed one stinking first down on that final series.

LB

Originally posted by 49ersMan420:
not blaming anyone but cmon we need to fool the D a lil, we should have had a short pass on that last drive to get a first down and then we could have ran out the damn clock...

Yeah, those 1st down things were growing on tree's all day, especially when we needed them.... piece of cake. Sims at left tackle, and Staley out. Gotta love that Sims guy, he's the best pass blocker on the team and that Allen guy on the other side sucks! It's a no brainier we should be passing the ball backed up deep in their territory with a 4 point lead and under a 1.5 minutes to play, with the opposing team out of timeouts. Especially with that crappy ass defense who had been letting them march up and down the field all day, especially the second half. Throw in the fact that our punter can't punt worth a s**t, and the punt coverage team sucks ass too. I'm with ya man, all things point to we should have passed that ball.

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
Blame the- O-line
-Jimmy Raye
-Greg Manusky
-Mark Roman
-Dre Bly
-Singletary
It doesn't matter, we lose as team and win as a team. We were seconds away from being 3-0.

I couldn't even sleep last night. I am sick to my f**king stomach. I hate Favre so much. f**k s**t piss!!!!!

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Ok, here's the deal from someone who knows something about this type of situation, Tony Dungy, who just went over this with some film illustrating how the defense f**ked up.

Right from his mouth: The 49ers didn't defend this well, they defended the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and the end zone. This was a situation we (the colts) used practice once a week on Saturday, put the ball on the thirty and practice a "last play of the game" defense. Mike Singletary will learn from this and not let this this happen again, you can bet they will be practicing it once a week from now on, is what he said.

There you go, from somebody who knows what the f**k they are talking about. This loss didn't have a f**king thing to do with the offense, it was the defense who played an outstanding game who f**ked up in the end, and it was because neither Manusky nor Singletary recognized that they needed to focus on defending the sideline and the endzone. Before the snap...the middle of the field was loaded up defensively.

Not to pick a fight, but you don't think that maybe if we got a first down on our last drive, we would've won? You don't think our Offense bears any blame for failing to run some 90 seconds off the clock? Due to VERY predictable playcalling?

In my eyes, Raye is just as at fault as the 'D'.

All woulda coulda shoulda. I can name a thousand other woulda coulda shoulda scenarios. A dropped ball, a bit of a wrong route, giving up on a route a missed block, a bad play call, a bad call by the refs..it goes on and on and on. All of it is part of the game, all of it woulda shoulda coulda. Stick with the facts, which is that the defense did not defend that play well at all, and it cost the game. The offense didd it's job, including the coaches...they put enough points on the board to win the game. Then we gave it to the defense to win for us, which was wholly the smart, odds on thing to do considering a field goal would not do it for them and they had no timeouts with one minute left and the d hadn't even allowed them to drive into filed goal range the entire second half, yet alone 80 yards and a td.

This reminds of the argument about the Patsy's when they lost the superbowl, how the offense failed them when the reality was that the defense failed them because they didn't stop the Giants from scoring after the Patsy's had gone ahead.

The bottom line was that it was a much safer bet to put the game in the defense's hand. It's a team game, when the game gets turned over to the defense (regardless of why) it's their job to do their part which is first and foremost not allow the score. When it gets turned over to the offense, it's their job to score enough to win, and they did that. It ain't the offense's job to get first downs, convert 3rd downs or anything of the sort, it is simply to score more points than the other guy, anyway you can get it, and to protect that ball along the way.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? It's 3 games in a row that the defense held our opponents in check and all the offense had to do was get first downs to ice it away. All 3 games they couldn't and went 3 and outs, giving the other guys last ditch opportunities. If we could have just gotten a first down near the end today, Favre wouldn't have had a chance at last-minute heroics! The offense, thanks in great part to aye, is anemic and something needs to be done. Now that gore's probably out, it may actually force him to get a little creative. Pray that it's so!

I have watched the games, now here is the reality of the situation you speak of:

"The 49ers have ended all three of their games the same way, by lining up with only one wide receiver and running three times in a row. I do think there are times when offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye should show more trust in Shaun Hill. This was not necessarily one of those times. The 49ers had thrown eight previous times on third down in this game without converting one of them, including a third-and-1 play when they tried to spread the field with three receivers instead of running. Their best pass-protector, left tackle Joe Staley, had suffered a leg injury late in the game. Barry Sims was at left tackle. If Raye had called for a pass and something had gone terribly wrong, the 49ers would be hearing about how they strayed from their identity at the worst possible time, and how Raye should have known the passing game hadn't done anything on third down all game, even with Staley. The 49ers' defense allowed a 32-yard touchdown pass on the final play when only a 32-yard touchdown pass could beat them. That was the bigger story to me. "

That's the reality, on the ground, instead of from a the armchair coaches position.

Now to say the offense is anemic is complete and utter BS. It's ugly as hell, but it's been damn good enough to win. Here are the stats to prove it:

Avg points for: 22.3
Avg points against: 17.7

You see, 22.3 points is plenty good enough to win when you have a defense that only allows an average of 17.7. The offense is good enough to win, with the defense we have, and vice versa. Utter BS about the offense being anemic, as it ignores the most important stat of all, points for.

I have a theory, I think there is a lot of people who simply don't have the nerves to sit through this type of football. It's too uncomfortable for them, win or lose. Gives them ulcer's, even when we win.

Well, actually it's 19.97 points per game for the offense. At least 7 points yesterday was from a blocked field goal and return. To me that's not enough offense to consistently win.

LB

Yeah, well there you go. I knew someone would chime in about that. But it works both ways. You don't get your cake and get to eat it to. Didn't the ST give up 7 yesterday as well? Doesn't that show up in the points against stats, on the defense side of the ball? How come your working the math to support your argument and neglecting to work it the other way? It's a wash, ST giveth and taketh away yesterday.

Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return.

We can play this woulda shoulda could game for ever and regardless, the outcome is the same...the defense failed in the end, after we had accumulated enough points to win.

A little sensitive are we? Please excuse me Sir but your argument was that the offense was scoring enough points to win. I respectfully disagree. Under 20 points per game average is NOT enough for me and NOT enough to beat teams with a more potent offense. Our defense is great but cannot be expected to keep opposing teams under 20 points all the time.

I think it's the offense that failed and not the defense as you stated. They only scored 17 points yesterday. Not enough. I do blame the play caller (Sing and or Raye IDK). The non-stop running into a stacked box all day especially the last 3 plays was mind blowing. We averaged 2.2 yards per carry yesterday. The D did not fail, we needed one stinking first down on that final series.

LB

Sensitive? I don't think so...you tried to work it one way and neglected that it worked the other as well, I simply pointed out that it was wash. Now, as far as the argument about the team not having enough points to win, they did, all three games, up until the final 2 seconds of the game yesterday. One stinking first down? They sucked ass getting first downs all day (epically), don't act like it was as simple as getting one stinking first down. They sucked ass with Staley in, and here's Sims instead. You really think we were gonna be better all of a sudden, or do you think Sims just might suck ass and let Allen make a big TO?

If you want to play that game..lets play it big time, f**k all this little 1st down s**t....how about blaming VD who should have caught that ball on the last play of the game and scored? We would have won. See, the woulda coulda shoulda can be played forever. s**t, why stop there? Why, we should have never been in that position to start with, if Nolan hadn't of f**ked up and crafted Roger's instead, we woulda coulda shoulda. How far back do you want to go?

Now, correct me if I am wrong, last I checked it wasn't the offense defending the Vikes last drive, when we had a 4 point lead, correct? That would be the defense, defending against that drive. The offense wasn't even on the damn field (thank God, seeing as how they sucked ass all game long when it came to sustaining drives, particularly, getting first downs, particularity, on third downs) so how you figure the defense didn't fail, is beyond me. The o mights as well have been in another universe, they were not even on the field.

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Ok, here's the deal from someone who knows something about this type of situation, Tony Dungy, who just went over this with some film illustrating how the defense f**ked up.

Right from his mouth: The 49ers didn't defend this well, they defended the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and the end zone. This was a situation we (the colts) used practice once a week on Saturday, put the ball on the thirty and practice a "last play of the game" defense. Mike Singletary will learn from this and not let this this happen again, you can bet they will be practicing it once a week from now on, is what he said.

There you go, from somebody who knows what the f**k they are talking about. This loss didn't have a f**king thing to do with the offense, it was the defense who played an outstanding game who f**ked up in the end, and it was because neither Manusky nor Singletary recognized that they needed to focus on defending the sideline and the endzone. Before the snap...the middle of the field was loaded up defensively.

Not to pick a fight, but you don't think that maybe if we got a first down on our last drive, we would've won? You don't think our Offense bears any blame for failing to run some 90 seconds off the clock? Due to VERY predictable playcalling?

In my eyes, Raye is just as at fault as the 'D'.

All woulda coulda shoulda. I can name a thousand other woulda coulda shoulda scenarios. A dropped ball, a bit of a wrong route, giving up on a route a missed block, a bad play call, a bad call by the refs..it goes on and on and on. All of it is part of the game, all of it woulda shoulda coulda. Stick with the facts, which is that the defense did not defend that play well at all, and it cost the game. The offense didd it's job, including the coaches...they put enough points on the board to win the game. Then we gave it to the defense to win for us, which was wholly the smart, odds on thing to do considering a field goal would not do it for them and they had no timeouts with one minute left and the d hadn't even allowed them to drive into filed goal range the entire second half, yet alone 80 yards and a td.

This reminds of the argument about the Patsy's when they lost the superbowl, how the offense failed them when the reality was that the defense failed them because they didn't stop the Giants from scoring after the Patsy's had gone ahead.

The bottom line was that it was a much safer bet to put the game in the defense's hand. It's a team game, when the game gets turned over to the defense (regardless of why) it's their job to do their part which is first and foremost not allow the score. When it gets turned over to the offense, it's their job to score enough to win, and they did that. It ain't the offense's job to get first downs, convert 3rd downs or anything of the sort, it is simply to score more points than the other guy, anyway you can get it, and to protect that ball along the way.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? It's 3 games in a row that the defense held our opponents in check and all the offense had to do was get first downs to ice it away. All 3 games they couldn't and went 3 and outs, giving the other guys last ditch opportunities. If we could have just gotten a first down near the end today, Favre wouldn't have had a chance at last-minute heroics! The offense, thanks in great part to aye, is anemic and something needs to be done. Now that gore's probably out, it may actually force him to get a little creative. Pray that it's so!

I have watched the games, now here is the reality of the situation you speak of:

"The 49ers have ended all three of their games the same way, by lining up with only one wide receiver and running three times in a row. I do think there are times when offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye should show more trust in Shaun Hill. This was not necessarily one of those times. The 49ers had thrown eight previous times on third down in this game without converting one of them, including a third-and-1 play when they tried to spread the field with three receivers instead of running. Their best pass-protector, left tackle Joe Staley, had suffered a leg injury late in the game. Barry Sims was at left tackle. If Raye had called for a pass and something had gone terribly wrong, the 49ers would be hearing about how they strayed from their identity at the worst possible time, and how Raye should have known the passing game hadn't done anything on third down all game, even with Staley. The 49ers' defense allowed a 32-yard touchdown pass on the final play when only a 32-yard touchdown pass could beat them. That was the bigger story to me. "

That's the reality, on the ground, instead of from a the armchair coaches position.

Now to say the offense is anemic is complete and utter BS. It's ugly as hell, but it's been damn good enough to win. Here are the stats to prove it:

Avg points for: 22.3
Avg points against: 17.7

You see, 22.3 points is plenty good enough to win when you have a defense that only allows an average of 17.7. The offense is good enough to win, with the defense we have, and vice versa. Utter BS about the offense being anemic, as it ignores the most important stat of all, points for.

I have a theory, I think there is a lot of people who simply don't have the nerves to sit through this type of football. It's too uncomfortable for them, win or lose. Gives them ulcer's, even when we win.

Well, actually it's 19.97 points per game for the offense. At least 7 points yesterday was from a blocked field goal and return. To me that's not enough offense to consistently win.

LB

Yeah, well there you go. I knew someone would chime in about that. But it works both ways. You don't get your cake and get to eat it to. Didn't the ST give up 7 yesterday as well? Doesn't that show up in the points against stats, on the defense side of the ball? How come your working the math to support your argument and neglecting to work it the other way? It's a wash, ST giveth and taketh away yesterday.

Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return.

We can play this woulda shoulda could game for ever and regardless, the outcome is the same...the defense failed in the end, after we had accumulated enough points to win.

A little sensitive are we? Please excuse me Sir but your argument was that the offense was scoring enough points to win. I respectfully disagree. Under 20 points per game average is NOT enough for me and NOT enough to beat teams with a more potent offense. Our defense is great but cannot be expected to keep opposing teams under 20 points all the time.

I think it's the offense that failed and not the defense as you stated. They only scored 17 points yesterday. Not enough. I do blame the play caller (Sing and or Raye IDK). The non-stop running into a stacked box all day especially the last 3 plays was mind blowing. We averaged 2.2 yards per carry yesterday. The D did not fail, we needed one stinking first down on that final series.

LB

Totally agree

Originally posted by Juniorminime:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Ok, here's the deal from someone who knows something about this type of situation, Tony Dungy, who just went over this with some film illustrating how the defense f**ked up.

Right from his mouth: The 49ers didn't defend this well, they defended the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and the end zone. This was a situation we (the colts) used practice once a week on Saturday, put the ball on the thirty and practice a "last play of the game" defense. Mike Singletary will learn from this and not let this this happen again, you can bet they will be practicing it once a week from now on, is what he said.

There you go, from somebody who knows what the f**k they are talking about. This loss didn't have a f**king thing to do with the offense, it was the defense who played an outstanding game who f**ked up in the end, and it was because neither Manusky nor Singletary recognized that they needed to focus on defending the sideline and the endzone. Before the snap...the middle of the field was loaded up defensively.

Not to pick a fight, but you don't think that maybe if we got a first down on our last drive, we would've won? You don't think our Offense bears any blame for failing to run some 90 seconds off the clock? Due to VERY predictable playcalling?

In my eyes, Raye is just as at fault as the 'D'.

All woulda coulda shoulda. I can name a thousand other woulda coulda shoulda scenarios. A dropped ball, a bit of a wrong route, giving up on a route a missed block, a bad play call, a bad call by the refs..it goes on and on and on. All of it is part of the game, all of it woulda shoulda coulda. Stick with the facts, which is that the defense did not defend that play well at all, and it cost the game. The offense didd it's job, including the coaches...they put enough points on the board to win the game. Then we gave it to the defense to win for us, which was wholly the smart, odds on thing to do considering a field goal would not do it for them and they had no timeouts with one minute left and the d hadn't even allowed them to drive into filed goal range the entire second half, yet alone 80 yards and a td.

This reminds of the argument about the Patsy's when they lost the superbowl, how the offense failed them when the reality was that the defense failed them because they didn't stop the Giants from scoring after the Patsy's had gone ahead.

The bottom line was that it was a much safer bet to put the game in the defense's hand. It's a team game, when the game gets turned over to the defense (regardless of why) it's their job to do their part which is first and foremost not allow the score. When it gets turned over to the offense, it's their job to score enough to win, and they did that. It ain't the offense's job to get first downs, convert 3rd downs or anything of the sort, it is simply to score more points than the other guy, anyway you can get it, and to protect that ball along the way.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? It's 3 games in a row that the defense held our opponents in check and all the offense had to do was get first downs to ice it away. All 3 games they couldn't and went 3 and outs, giving the other guys last ditch opportunities. If we could have just gotten a first down near the end today, Favre wouldn't have had a chance at last-minute heroics! The offense, thanks in great part to aye, is anemic and something needs to be done. Now that gore's probably out, it may actually force him to get a little creative. Pray that it's so!

I have watched the games, now here is the reality of the situation you speak of:

"The 49ers have ended all three of their games the same way, by lining up with only one wide receiver and running three times in a row. I do think there are times when offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye should show more trust in Shaun Hill. This was not necessarily one of those times. The 49ers had thrown eight previous times on third down in this game without converting one of them, including a third-and-1 play when they tried to spread the field with three receivers instead of running. Their best pass-protector, left tackle Joe Staley, had suffered a leg injury late in the game. Barry Sims was at left tackle. If Raye had called for a pass and something had gone terribly wrong, the 49ers would be hearing about how they strayed from their identity at the worst possible time, and how Raye should have known the passing game hadn't done anything on third down all game, even with Staley. The 49ers' defense allowed a 32-yard touchdown pass on the final play when only a 32-yard touchdown pass could beat them. That was the bigger story to me. "

That's the reality, on the ground, instead of from a the armchair coaches position.

Now to say the offense is anemic is complete and utter BS. It's ugly as hell, but it's been damn good enough to win. Here are the stats to prove it:

Avg points for: 22.3
Avg points against: 17.7

You see, 22.3 points is plenty good enough to win when you have a defense that only allows an average of 17.7. The offense is good enough to win, with the defense we have, and vice versa. Utter BS about the offense being anemic, as it ignores the most important stat of all, points for.

I have a theory, I think there is a lot of people who simply don't have the nerves to sit through this type of football. It's too uncomfortable for them, win or lose. Gives them ulcer's, even when we win.

Well, actually it's 19.97 points per game for the offense. At least 7 points yesterday was from a blocked field goal and return. To me that's not enough offense to consistently win.

LB

Yeah, well there you go. I knew someone would chime in about that. But it works both ways. You don't get your cake and get to eat it to. Didn't the ST give up 7 yesterday as well? Doesn't that show up in the points against stats, on the defense side of the ball? How come your working the math to support your argument and neglecting to work it the other way? It's a wash, ST giveth and taketh away yesterday.

Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return.

We can play this woulda shoulda could game for ever and regardless, the outcome is the same...the defense failed in the end, after we had accumulated enough points to win.

A little sensitive are we? Please excuse me Sir but your argument was that the offense was scoring enough points to win. I respectfully disagree. Under 20 points per game average is NOT enough for me and NOT enough to beat teams with a more potent offense. Our defense is great but cannot be expected to keep opposing teams under 20 points all the time.

I think it's the offense that failed and not the defense as you stated. They only scored 17 points yesterday. Not enough. I do blame the play caller (Sing and or Raye IDK). The non-stop running into a stacked box all day especially the last 3 plays was mind blowing. We averaged 2.2 yards per carry yesterday. The D did not fail, we needed one stinking first down on that final series.

LB

Totally agree

I'm done with this. If you guys don't see the utility of running on that stacked box and in limiting risk in that situation and then turning the job over to the d, there is no hope for you...nor niner talk.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Ok, here's the deal from someone who knows something about this type of situation, Tony Dungy, who just went over this with some film illustrating how the defense f**ked up.

Right from his mouth: The 49ers didn't defend this well, they defended the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and the end zone. This was a situation we (the colts) used practice once a week on Saturday, put the ball on the thirty and practice a "last play of the game" defense. Mike Singletary will learn from this and not let this this happen again, you can bet they will be practicing it once a week from now on, is what he said.

There you go, from somebody who knows what the f**k they are talking about. This loss didn't have a f**king thing to do with the offense, it was the defense who played an outstanding game who f**ked up in the end, and it was because neither Manusky nor Singletary recognized that they needed to focus on defending the sideline and the endzone. Before the snap...the middle of the field was loaded up defensively.

Not to pick a fight, but you don't think that maybe if we got a first down on our last drive, we would've won? You don't think our Offense bears any blame for failing to run some 90 seconds off the clock? Due to VERY predictable playcalling?

In my eyes, Raye is just as at fault as the 'D'.

All woulda coulda shoulda. I can name a thousand other woulda coulda shoulda scenarios. A dropped ball, a bit of a wrong route, giving up on a route a missed block, a bad play call, a bad call by the refs..it goes on and on and on. All of it is part of the game, all of it woulda shoulda coulda. Stick with the facts, which is that the defense did not defend that play well at all, and it cost the game. The offense didd it's job, including the coaches...they put enough points on the board to win the game. Then we gave it to the defense to win for us, which was wholly the smart, odds on thing to do considering a field goal would not do it for them and they had no timeouts with one minute left and the d hadn't even allowed them to drive into filed goal range the entire second half, yet alone 80 yards and a td.

This reminds of the argument about the Patsy's when they lost the superbowl, how the offense failed them when the reality was that the defense failed them because they didn't stop the Giants from scoring after the Patsy's had gone ahead.

The bottom line was that it was a much safer bet to put the game in the defense's hand. It's a team game, when the game gets turned over to the defense (regardless of why) it's their job to do their part which is first and foremost not allow the score. When it gets turned over to the offense, it's their job to score enough to win, and they did that. It ain't the offense's job to get first downs, convert 3rd downs or anything of the sort, it is simply to score more points than the other guy, anyway you can get it, and to protect that ball along the way.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? It's 3 games in a row that the defense held our opponents in check and all the offense had to do was get first downs to ice it away. All 3 games they couldn't and went 3 and outs, giving the other guys last ditch opportunities. If we could have just gotten a first down near the end today, Favre wouldn't have had a chance at last-minute heroics! The offense, thanks in great part to aye, is anemic and something needs to be done. Now that gore's probably out, it may actually force him to get a little creative. Pray that it's so!

I have watched the games, now here is the reality of the situation you speak of:

"The 49ers have ended all three of their games the same way, by lining up with only one wide receiver and running three times in a row. I do think there are times when offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye should show more trust in Shaun Hill. This was not necessarily one of those times. The 49ers had thrown eight previous times on third down in this game without converting one of them, including a third-and-1 play when they tried to spread the field with three receivers instead of running. Their best pass-protector, left tackle Joe Staley, had suffered a leg injury late in the game. Barry Sims was at left tackle. If Raye had called for a pass and something had gone terribly wrong, the 49ers would be hearing about how they strayed from their identity at the worst possible time, and how Raye should have known the passing game hadn't done anything on third down all game, even with Staley. The 49ers' defense allowed a 32-yard touchdown pass on the final play when only a 32-yard touchdown pass could beat them. That was the bigger story to me. "

That's the reality, on the ground, instead of from a the armchair coaches position.

Now to say the offense is anemic is complete and utter BS. It's ugly as hell, but it's been damn good enough to win. Here are the stats to prove it:

Avg points for: 22.3
Avg points against: 17.7

You see, 22.3 points is plenty good enough to win when you have a defense that only allows an average of 17.7. The offense is good enough to win, with the defense we have, and vice versa. Utter BS about the offense being anemic, as it ignores the most important stat of all, points for.

I have a theory, I think there is a lot of people who simply don't have the nerves to sit through this type of football. It's too uncomfortable for them, win or lose. Gives them ulcer's, even when we win.

Well, actually it's 19.97 points per game for the offense. At least 7 points yesterday was from a blocked field goal and return. To me that's not enough offense to consistently win.

LB

Yeah, well there you go. I knew someone would chime in about that. But it works both ways. You don't get your cake and get to eat it to. Didn't the ST give up 7 yesterday as well? Doesn't that show up in the points against stats, on the defense side of the ball? How come your working the math to support your argument and neglecting to work it the other way? It's a wash, ST giveth and taketh away yesterday.

Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return.

We can play this woulda shoulda could game for ever and regardless, the outcome is the same...the defense failed in the end, after we had accumulated enough points to win.

A little sensitive are we? Please excuse me Sir but your argument was that the offense was scoring enough points to win. I respectfully disagree. Under 20 points per game average is NOT enough for me and NOT enough to beat teams with a more potent offense. Our defense is great but cannot be expected to keep opposing teams under 20 points all the time.

I think it's the offense that failed and not the defense as you stated. They only scored 17 points yesterday. Not enough. I do blame the play caller (Sing and or Raye IDK). The non-stop running into a stacked box all day especially the last 3 plays was mind blowing. We averaged 2.2 yards per carry yesterday. The D did not fail, we needed one stinking first down on that final series.

LB

Sensitive? I don't think so...you tried to work it one way and neglected that it worked the other as well, I simply pointed out that it was wash. Now, as far as the argument about the team not having enough points to win, they did, all three games, up until the final 2 seconds of the game yesterday. One stinking first down? They sucked ass getting first downs all day (epically), don't act like it was as simple as getting one stinking first down. They sucked ass with Staley in, and here's Sims instead. You really think we were gonna be better all of a sudden, or do you think Sims just might suck ass and let Allen make a big TO?

If you want to play that game..lets play it big time, f**k all this little 1st down s**t....how about blaming VD who should have caught that ball on the last play of the game and scored? We would have won. See, the woulda coulda shoulda can be played forever. s**t, why stop there? Why, we should have never been in that position to start with, if Nolan hadn't of f**ked up and crafted Roger's instead, we woulda coulda shoulda. How far back do you want to go?

Now, correct me if I am wrong, last I checked it wasn't the offense defending the Vikes last drive, when we had a 4 point lead, correct? That would be the defense, defending against that drive. The offense wasn't even on the damn field (thank God, seeing as how they sucked ass all game long when it came to sustaining drives, particularly, getting first downs, particularity, on third downs) so how you figure the defense didn't fail, is beyond me. The o mights as well have been in another universe, they were not even on the field.

"Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return."

Funny how you accuse me of padding the stats only one way to support my argument... Well OK, it also makes the offense more pathetic as well because it's 1 less TD for them.

I don't think you realize it but you are successfully making my point for me about the offense. You are saying that we couldn't get a 1st down all day and how bad we were. Well, you are right! That's why we need to open the play book up a little don't ya think? Run, run, run, run, run, run. We need to be a little more creative. You are allowed to blame the D but I will not. They are a solid group and have been keeping our one dimensional offense in each of the games so far. We need more than 20 points per game to win consistently. It's simply not realistic to expect the defense to keep opposing teams to under 14 points each week.

Yup, one sticking first down is all we needed.

LB

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Juniorminime:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 4evrfan:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by baltien:

Originally posted by Blitz:
Ok, here's the deal from someone who knows something about this type of situation, Tony Dungy, who just went over this with some film illustrating how the defense f**ked up.

Right from his mouth: The 49ers didn't defend this well, they defended the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and the end zone. This was a situation we (the colts) used practice once a week on Saturday, put the ball on the thirty and practice a "last play of the game" defense. Mike Singletary will learn from this and not let this this happen again, you can bet they will be practicing it once a week from now on, is what he said.

There you go, from somebody who knows what the f**k they are talking about. This loss didn't have a f**king thing to do with the offense, it was the defense who played an outstanding game who f**ked up in the end, and it was because neither Manusky nor Singletary recognized that they needed to focus on defending the sideline and the endzone. Before the snap...the middle of the field was loaded up defensively.

Not to pick a fight, but you don't think that maybe if we got a first down on our last drive, we would've won? You don't think our Offense bears any blame for failing to run some 90 seconds off the clock? Due to VERY predictable playcalling?

In my eyes, Raye is just as at fault as the 'D'.

All woulda coulda shoulda. I can name a thousand other woulda coulda shoulda scenarios. A dropped ball, a bit of a wrong route, giving up on a route a missed block, a bad play call, a bad call by the refs..it goes on and on and on. All of it is part of the game, all of it woulda shoulda coulda. Stick with the facts, which is that the defense did not defend that play well at all, and it cost the game. The offense didd it's job, including the coaches...they put enough points on the board to win the game. Then we gave it to the defense to win for us, which was wholly the smart, odds on thing to do considering a field goal would not do it for them and they had no timeouts with one minute left and the d hadn't even allowed them to drive into filed goal range the entire second half, yet alone 80 yards and a td.

This reminds of the argument about the Patsy's when they lost the superbowl, how the offense failed them when the reality was that the defense failed them because they didn't stop the Giants from scoring after the Patsy's had gone ahead.

The bottom line was that it was a much safer bet to put the game in the defense's hand. It's a team game, when the game gets turned over to the defense (regardless of why) it's their job to do their part which is first and foremost not allow the score. When it gets turned over to the offense, it's their job to score enough to win, and they did that. It ain't the offense's job to get first downs, convert 3rd downs or anything of the sort, it is simply to score more points than the other guy, anyway you can get it, and to protect that ball along the way.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? It's 3 games in a row that the defense held our opponents in check and all the offense had to do was get first downs to ice it away. All 3 games they couldn't and went 3 and outs, giving the other guys last ditch opportunities. If we could have just gotten a first down near the end today, Favre wouldn't have had a chance at last-minute heroics! The offense, thanks in great part to aye, is anemic and something needs to be done. Now that gore's probably out, it may actually force him to get a little creative. Pray that it's so!

I have watched the games, now here is the reality of the situation you speak of:

"The 49ers have ended all three of their games the same way, by lining up with only one wide receiver and running three times in a row. I do think there are times when offensive coordinator Jimmy Raye should show more trust in Shaun Hill. This was not necessarily one of those times. The 49ers had thrown eight previous times on third down in this game without converting one of them, including a third-and-1 play when they tried to spread the field with three receivers instead of running. Their best pass-protector, left tackle Joe Staley, had suffered a leg injury late in the game. Barry Sims was at left tackle. If Raye had called for a pass and something had gone terribly wrong, the 49ers would be hearing about how they strayed from their identity at the worst possible time, and how Raye should have known the passing game hadn't done anything on third down all game, even with Staley. The 49ers' defense allowed a 32-yard touchdown pass on the final play when only a 32-yard touchdown pass could beat them. That was the bigger story to me. "

That's the reality, on the ground, instead of from a the armchair coaches position.

Now to say the offense is anemic is complete and utter BS. It's ugly as hell, but it's been damn good enough to win. Here are the stats to prove it:

Avg points for: 22.3
Avg points against: 17.7

You see, 22.3 points is plenty good enough to win when you have a defense that only allows an average of 17.7. The offense is good enough to win, with the defense we have, and vice versa. Utter BS about the offense being anemic, as it ignores the most important stat of all, points for.

I have a theory, I think there is a lot of people who simply don't have the nerves to sit through this type of football. It's too uncomfortable for them, win or lose. Gives them ulcer's, even when we win.

Well, actually it's 19.97 points per game for the offense. At least 7 points yesterday was from a blocked field goal and return. To me that's not enough offense to consistently win.

LB

Yeah, well there you go. I knew someone would chime in about that. But it works both ways. You don't get your cake and get to eat it to. Didn't the ST give up 7 yesterday as well? Doesn't that show up in the points against stats, on the defense side of the ball? How come your working the math to support your argument and neglecting to work it the other way? It's a wash, ST giveth and taketh away yesterday.

Our defense just got even more stingier stat wise, when you take away those 7 points ST gave up on the kickoff return.

We can play this woulda shoulda could game for ever and regardless, the outcome is the same...the defense failed in the end, after we had accumulated enough points to win.

A little sensitive are we? Please excuse me Sir but your argument was that the offense was scoring enough points to win. I respectfully disagree. Under 20 points per game average is NOT enough for me and NOT enough to beat teams with a more potent offense. Our defense is great but cannot be expected to keep opposing teams under 20 points all the time.

I think it's the offense that failed and not the defense as you stated. They only scored 17 points yesterday. Not enough. I do blame the play caller (Sing and or Raye IDK). The non-stop running into a stacked box all day especially the last 3 plays was mind blowing. We averaged 2.2 yards per carry yesterday. The D did not fail, we needed one stinking first down on that final series.

LB

Totally agree

I'm done with this. If you guys don't see the utility of running on that stacked box and in limiting risk in that situation and then turning the job over to the d, there is no hope for you...nor niner talk.

Simply because some of us have a different opinion than you do does not necessarily make us wrong... I could just as easily turn the question back to you and say that if you don't see that we can't rely on a 2.2 YPC average to win games then there is no hope for you.

Raye is executing Singletary's game plan. Coming into the season Singletary wanted toughness and a run-first offense The 49ers are the toughest team in the league. Raye is giving him a run-first offense.

Singletary emphasizes consistent improvement. Every day, every game, you go out and try to get better. This doesn't stop with the players. Coaches have to work towards improving as well.

I think Singletary learned an important lesson this week. You cannot give opponents too many chances or it'll come back and bite you. The 49ers would have won if they put the game away with several first downs. It doesn't matter if they come by the run or the pass.

I wouldn't be surprised if Singletary modifies his run-first offensive approach as the season progresses. Shaun Hill is playing well and VD is becoming a threat. Look for the 49ers open up the passing game.

Originally posted by rum53:
Raye is executing Singletary's game plan. Coming into the season Singletary wanted toughness and a run-first offense The 49ers are the toughest team in the league. Raye is giving him a run-first offense.

Singletary emphasizes consistent improvement. Every day, every game, you go out and try to get better. This doesn't stop with the players. Coaches have to work towards improving as well.

I think Singletary learned an important lesson this week. You cannot give opponents too many chances or it'll come back and bite you. The 49ers would have won if they put the game away with several first downs. It doesn't matter if they come by the run or the pass.

I wouldn't be surprised if Singletary modifies his run-first offensive approach as the season progresses. Shaun Hill is playing well and VD is becoming a threat. Look for the 49ers open up the passing game.

The main lesson to learn is exactly what Dungy said: They need to practice a last play of the game defense every week. The defense failed because they were protecting the middle of the field instead of the sidelines and and end zone. The blame of this game goes o Singletary and Manusky. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with Raye or the offense, they had enough points on the board to win. The defense failed to protect those points when it was handed over to them. IT WILL BE HANDED OVER TO THEM AGAIN WHETHER THEY HAVE 50 POINTS ON THE BOARD OR THREE, WHETHER THEY ARE SUCKING ASS OR STELLAR. The paly was poorly defended, it cost us the game. The lesson needs to draw from those facts, and it is also far easier to make a change to defend that situation better than it is to f**k around trying to change an offense, or a philosophy that has essentially worked well enough to win in combination with this defense.

I am sure Singletary and Manusky will learn from this, and develope a last play of the game drill to practice every week.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by 49ersMan420:
not blaming anyone but cmon we need to fool the D a lil, we should have had a short pass on that last drive to get a first down and then we could have ran out the damn clock...

Yeah, those 1st down things were growing on tree's all day, especially when we needed them.... piece of cake. Sims at left tackle, and Staley out. Gotta love that Sims guy, he's the best pass blocker on the team and that Allen guy on the other side sucks! It's a no brainier we should be passing the ball backed up deep in their territory with a 4 point lead and under a 1.5 minutes to play, with the opposing team out of timeouts. Especially with that crappy ass defense who had been letting them march up and down the field all day, especially the second half. Throw in the fact that our punter can't punt worth a s**t, and the punt coverage team sucks ass too. I'm with ya man, all things point to we should have passed that ball.

Yup, you're right. Running worked so much better even though everyone plus Helen Keller could see it coming, over and over and over........ C'mon Blitz, 3 games in a row we tried that tactic and could buy a first down. Nothing wrong with thr run first philosophy if it works, and, they're not expecting it every play. We fooled no on and came close to being 0-3. Don't kid yourself. Sing and Raye, like it or not, need to come up with alternatives when something ain't working, and 3 and outs are a pretty good indication!

I was very much against hiring Jimmy Raye.

But seeing how often he throws to Vernon Davis, I'm doing a complete 180. Jimmy Raye was a terrific hire and is a great coordinator.

Originally posted by Ram9er:
In my opinion Mark Roman costed us the vikings game because instead of going for the ball,(which he had no chance to knock down), he should of just pushed greg lewis out of the end zone. Remember there is no force out rule so he could have easily pushed him out of the back of the end zone and kept that second foot from hitting the floor. Mark Roman is not a winner, Goldson wouldve made that play.

I think it would have been extremely difficult to see the throw, get set, and try to push Lewis out AFTER he touches it. I think it would have been more wise to not make the play on the ball at all and try and get his hand in between Lewis' arms and rip the ball out instead because the receiver must keep the ball throughout the entire play which includes hitting the ground.

Originally posted by crzy:
I was very much against hiring Jimmy Raye.

But seeing how often he throws to Vernon Davis, I'm doing a complete 180. Jimmy Raye was a terrific hire and is a great coordinator.

idk

Im happy that he is passing the ball to vernon davis

but he needs to switch up the play calling a bit

I understand that we are going to run, but we can use different formations, not the same damn ones all the time. (Im aware that blocking schemes may differ for the same formation, but the opposing D already recognizes its a run and they run blitz)

Originally posted by ads_2006:

Originally posted by crzy:
I was very much against hiring Jimmy Raye.

But seeing how often he throws to Vernon Davis, I'm doing a complete 180. Jimmy Raye was a terrific hire and is a great coordinator.

idk

Im happy that he is passing the ball to vernon davis

but he needs to switch up the play calling a bit

I understand that we are going to run, but we can use different formations, not the same damn ones all the time. (Im aware that blocking schemes may differ for the same formation, but the opposing D already recognizes its a run and they run blitz)

That is the hardest part to swallow. The niners rarely line up differently in a run situation. They just expect to be able to run. It works sometimes but in key 3rd downs, even the 3rd and managable yards we haven't been able to run the ball...

That and the lack of play action gets to me a little. EIther way, he does show that he can pass the ball a little bit also. I just want to see more 3 wR sets and some more diversity in the playcalling.

That said, we are 2-1 with the chance to go 3-0 in the west which rocks!!!



Go Niners!!!