Stop blaming Raye . . .

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Now, the first down argument is nothing but shoulda woulda coulda crap...because we can go all the way back forever with that game, and name other events that were just as pivotal if not more... what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Still looking for that "total team" victory stat.

why was staley out and replaced with sims? was it an injury?

Originally posted by kujon11:
why was staley out and replaced with sims? was it an injury?

Yes. He was legged whipped. Has a contusion in his leg.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Now, the first down argument is nothing but shoulda woulda coulda crap...because we can go all the way back forever with that game, and name other events that were just as pivotal if not more... what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Still looking for that "total team" victory stat.

sorry there is no stat for things where common sense is just assumed.

I do thank you for 1 thing, you are reminding me that in 2000 there must have been cute little Raven fans debating with other Raven fans just how valuable the offense is too.

Hope you are ready for a long season defending this position of yours. Bottom line is Favre beat the Niners again on a ridiculous throw, you take that FLUKE away and we all would have been celebrating the Defensive victory.

The Niners are going to lead the league in 3 and outs all year long my man. And they are probably going to have a winning record. So are you really going to be asking for a stat then too or will you be willing to accept this is defensive ball club who is being handicapped by Raye and co???

When you don't convert ONE single first down, then it's time to get out the magnifying glass for a closer look at things. We all understand the need to run the ball. But when your star running back is on the sidelines AND we are going against one of the best running stuffers in the game, it's time to get creative.

I'm glad we we were able to find some seam plays for Vernon but unless this team establishes a bigger offensive repetoire, we are gonna be hurting. Where are the screen passes? Where are the quick hitters of the middle? Where are the play action passes?

We had this game in the bag. Everbody and their brother knew that we would run the ball 3 straight times down the pivotal stretch and sure enough we did. You simply cannot give the ball back to Favre with that much time on the clock and expect our defense (now in prevent mode nonetheless) to win the game for you.

So yes, I do blame this loss on both Raye and Singletary. Oh well, we learn the hard way sometimes. But good coaches learn by their mistakes. As my good friend said this morning, it's ok to be a stubborn coach but it's not ok to be a stubborn stupid coach. Time to make some adjustments, Mr. Singletary.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Now, the first down argument is nothing but shoulda woulda coulda crap...because we can go all the way back forever with that game, and name other events that were just as pivotal if not more... what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Still looking for that "total team" victory stat.

sorry there is no stat for things where common sense is just assumed.

I do thank you for 1 thing, you are reminding me that in 2000 there must have been cute little Raven fans debating with other Raven fans just how valuable the offense is too.

Hope you are ready for a long season defending this position of yours. Bottom line is Favre beat the Niners again on a ridiculous throw, you take that FLUKE away and we all would have been celebrating the Defensive victory.

The Niners are going to lead the league in 3 and outs all year long my man. And they are probably going to have a winning record. So are you really going to be asking for a stat then too or will you be willing to accept this is defensive ball club who is being handicapped by Raye and co???

Seeing as how you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it. I'm just going to say it flat out. I don't give two s**t's about anything other than winning. I really don't. We aren't going to win them all, that's a given. Under Raye, Manusky, Jed York and Singletary, this team is looking better in that department than they have in long time. I'll take two out of three any day of the f**king week and there isn't a team in this league who wouldn't either. I've been watching these Niner's since they were losing , before they dominated for years, and I have watched them when they were losing again over the last years. I watched Singletary playing college ball, get drafted, play ball, win the SB, get inducted in the HOF. I really don't give two s**t's about any two bit armchair coaching on some modern discussion media, about how things should be won, about how pretty it is or not, about any statistic other than win/ loss... I only care that they win...and I only care that they make others pay for everything that get from us, work there asses off getting it, win or lose. I'm happy as a clam about the direction this team is headed, winning 2 out of three games, going into minny and slugging thier ass in the nose, even though it wasn't a win. Your not going to piss in my cornflakes about that, no matter how hard you try.

Its easy to second guess the play, if they decided to throw and its incomplete stopping the clock and leaving min with a time out and favre goes down and score with time running out every one would be screaming we should have run it and made them burn there last timeout. The only thing I didnt like on that last play is all Roman had to dou was push the wr out of bounds instead he tried to defend a pass that he was noway in position to do. A simple push and he would have come down out of bounds no catch one more play and hopefully they would have defended that.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Now, the first down argument is nothing but shoulda woulda coulda crap...because we can go all the way back forever with that game, and name other events that were just as pivotal if not more... what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Still looking for that "total team" victory stat.

sorry there is no stat for things where common sense is just assumed.

I do thank you for 1 thing, you are reminding me that in 2000 there must have been cute little Raven fans debating with other Raven fans just how valuable the offense is too.

Hope you are ready for a long season defending this position of yours. Bottom line is Favre beat the Niners again on a ridiculous throw, you take that FLUKE away and we all would have been celebrating the Defensive victory.

The Niners are going to lead the league in 3 and outs all year long my man. And they are probably going to have a winning record. So are you really going to be asking for a stat then too or will you be willing to accept this is defensive ball club who is being handicapped by Raye and co???

Seeing as how you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it. I'm just going to say it flat out. I don't give two s**t's about anything other than winning. I really don't. We aren't going to win them all, that's a given. Under Raye, Manusky, Jed York and Singletary, this team is looking better in that department than they have in long time. I'll take two out of three any day of the f**king week and there isn't a team in this league who wouldn't either. I've been watching these Niner's since they were losing , before they dominated for years, and I have watched them when they were losing again over the last years. I watched Singletary playing college ball, get drafted, play ball, win the SB, get inducted in the HOF. I really don't give two s**t's about any two bit armchair coaching on some modern discussion media, about how things should be won, about how pretty it is or not, about any statistic other than win/ loss... I only care that they win...and I only care that they make others pay for everything that get from us, work there asses off getting it, win or lose. I'm happy as a clam about the direction this team is headed, winning 2 out of three games, going into minny and slugging thier ass in the nose, even though it wasn't a win. Your not going to piss in my cornflakes about that, no matter how hard you try.

Oh I am not trying to piss in your cereal. And I am happy as hell with this team.

I am one of the self admitted "Realists" and I can't wait for my crow. This team is going to outperform way beyond my expectations and I am done questioning coach Singletary, he has my full support for the duration.

BUT.

I let me be specific what it looks like I will be eating crow about. I thought this team was going to fail because of the offense, now I think they will succeed in spite of the offense.

Coach Singletary is Much Better than I expected.
The Defense is Much Better than I expected.
The Offense is a little better than I expected.

I could not be happier right now either, and I am glad fellow Niners fans are this optimistic after a tough loss. BUT, the thread is about Raye, and right now if I had to blame one person on the Niners not being 3-0, I would have to assign that blame to Raye.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by JC49:
Okay blame Singletary as well then. But Raye has to share the blame unless Singletary is doing the play calling. Two series, two chances to close out the game. All you need is ten bloody yards to win a game. You have to get those ten yards. That is the moment to do something different, to do anything to get the first down. You've been stubborn all day. You should have the defense set up for something. You should have noticed something you can exploit.

Instead five carries by your back up, rookie, running back into the strength of their defense for negative total yardage, and an eight yard pass on third and fifteen. Three runs in a row at the end. Raye should be more willing to answer for a little creativity to Singletary than confirming most people's concern that he has no originality or strategic ability.

Also that Singletary is willing to put a positive spin on this is disconcerting. Is he trying to whitewash his own deficiencies or his coaching staff’s failures? What the Niners did offensively, or didn't do, at the end of this game looks alarmingly like Singletary trying to stubbornly impose his will on the other and his own team. That hypocritically makes this about him not the team like he said he wants it to be.

The wanting to run on the other team at the end of games when they know it's coming is great theoretically, sounds great, and we all love it. But in practice just get a first down. Convert a single third down. Compounding the offensive impotence is the fact that Singletary seems comfortable with it. Zero for eleven on third downs. Just keep sending the offense out there to briefly bang their heads against a wall for a moment until the defense returns to work. Too much was asked of our defense and not enough of the offense.

The last thing I wanted to see was an eighth offensive coordinator in eight seasons. If this keeps up I could change my mind. I am not freaking out. The Niners are my team for better or worse, and we are better. But this is fair criticism. The true fans among us have put up with enough, long enough to voice dissatisfaction. Scott should tell Singletary to allow the offense to open up if he's the stick in the mud or tell him to tell Raye to do it.

Shaun Hill takes so much disrespect for what he can't do. All while his play and passer rating demonstrates he is successful at whatever he is allowed to do. Let him play and if his receivers keep dropping critical passes or he messes up you know what you have to correct. Not trying anything has become our way of playing defense for the other team.

Okay I am done. I couldn't keep a lid on it. Our players deserved the win and earned it. The coaches need to help not hinder the players. I will look forward to them taking this loss out on St. Louis. With another effort like this one against Atlanta we should make it to our bye four and one and have two weeks to prepare for our next opponent. I am grateful every one else in our division lost to keep us in first place. Soon I hope they will have to try to keep pace with us instead of us begging favors.

well said.

And we will have an 8th OC in 8 years. I have no doubt about that at all.

I am afraid you're right. That will make me sad and give me new hope. Two things then: 1) I hope the defense keeps improving because they rule. And 2) I hope they keep it young by finding ways to insert youth. The season is still young and the offense has time to get it right. If Raye and Singletary are smart the offense can easily be righted. Singletary talked about expanding what it can do as if it was waiting on Hill which I don't believe. It pisses me off how much Hill gets used as a whipping boy. Maybe he's not the second coming but he's not the problem.

Agree with the last post. If blame must be placed on one's shoulders, it's got to be the OC or HC if he's calling the plays. Hill played lights out the 2nd half, and when all we needed was a 1st down to ice the game, we ran the ball into the strength of the opponents' defense, banging our heads against the wall if you will, when it hadn't worked all day long. We were content with making the Vikings spend their timeouts and giving them the ball back, instead of having the sense to use what had been working the whole 2nd half to move the chains. Giving Favre the ball with over a minute is asking for a heartbreak. It's not like he hasn't done that about 50 times before.

But... enough bashing the OC. Surely we've all learned a lesson from this. Time to move on. The team is playing very soundly. I'm impressed with my 49ers over all. The Metrodome is a tough venue these days. Nothing to be ashamed of here.

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Now, the first down argument is nothing but shoulda woulda coulda crap...because we can go all the way back forever with that game, and name other events that were just as pivotal if not more... what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Still looking for that "total team" victory stat.

sorry there is no stat for things where common sense is just assumed.

I do thank you for 1 thing, you are reminding me that in 2000 there must have been cute little Raven fans debating with other Raven fans just how valuable the offense is too.

Hope you are ready for a long season defending this position of yours. Bottom line is Favre beat the Niners again on a ridiculous throw, you take that FLUKE away and we all would have been celebrating the Defensive victory.

The Niners are going to lead the league in 3 and outs all year long my man. And they are probably going to have a winning record. So are you really going to be asking for a stat then too or will you be willing to accept this is defensive ball club who is being handicapped by Raye and co???

Seeing as how you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it. I'm just going to say it flat out. I don't give two s**t's about anything other than winning. I really don't. We aren't going to win them all, that's a given. Under Raye, Manusky, Jed York and Singletary, this team is looking better in that department than they have in long time. I'll take two out of three any day of the f**king week and there isn't a team in this league who wouldn't either. I've been watching these Niner's since they were losing , before they dominated for years, and I have watched them when they were losing again over the last years. I watched Singletary playing college ball, get drafted, play ball, win the SB, get inducted in the HOF. I really don't give two s**t's about any two bit armchair coaching on some modern discussion media, about how things should be won, about how pretty it is or not, about any statistic other than win/ loss... I only care that they win...and I only care that they make others pay for everything that get from us, work there asses off getting it, win or lose. I'm happy as a clam about the direction this team is headed, winning 2 out of three games, going into minny and slugging thier ass in the nose, even though it wasn't a win. Your not going to piss in my cornflakes about that, no matter how hard you try.

I can accept, even celebrate, this is a defensive ball club. My beef with the glory years was the D didn't get enough credit. I played D. What I can't accept is that the ball club who is being handicapped by Raye and co.

And Blitz you need to chill just a tad. We'll all take any win. I have been watching from losing to winning, back to losing 'til now too. We're just talking. If you don't give a you know what about "some modern discussion media" than what are you here for? Nobody is "pissing in your cornflakes". I am totally with you on the slugging, working, making people pay... Did you miss the part about thinking we'll make five and one? I think we're having a great season and lovin' it if that's what you need to hear.

Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:

Originally posted by tommyncal:
. . . . he is calling the plays that Singletary wants. This is Singletary's philosphy . . conservative, conservative and more conservative. Singletary could override any call that Raye calls. Singletary has done a remarkable job, but I am having trouble getting onboard his bandwagon. You need a qb that defenses have to game plan for. These are the 49ers, where's our legacy?? The game is there to be won with a simple short pass and they can't, or choose not to, make a first down! That's alot of pressure to be put on any defense game after game. Singletary needs to change or the Scott needs to tell him to change.

Yeah its Raye's fault. We lose our best player on offense and Raye manages to squeeze 2 TD's out in the second half on the road against a top 5 defense and it's his fault. You guys a f**king ridiculous.
QuoteEdit

Yeah... and maybe squeeze out a 3rd TD if they just stayed with their earlier philosophy rather than pinch off a loaf! YOU'RE f**king ridiculous!

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by Blitz:

Originally posted by danimal:
when was the last time you have seen a team win a game without converting one 3rd down?

I saw this loss coming a mile away. The offense failed the team and that is why we lost. The offense also comes with a coordinator...imagine that. There is absolutely no reason not to blame Raye.

Sigh. Once again, it wasn't the offense who was on the field when the Vikes scored their go ahead points. That was the defense who allowed them to score. Up until that point, we had enough points to win. Why is that so hard to understand?

Look, here's the deal: The Patsy's went undefeated one year and broke the single season TD record...lights out offense. Good defense. They go into the SB and it comes down to them scoring enough points to win. They do that. At that point they hand it over it to their D and the Giants take the ball. The Giants go down the field and score. Who f**ked up, the Patsy's lights out O or their good D? Their d f**ked up, becuase they allowed the Giants to go down the filed and score. It didn't have jack s**t to do with their O, who, by the way, was one of the best offenses of all f**king time and lit teams up big time the whole season. So, to say, "you saw this coming" doesn't hold true in the context of history, because, I just proved to you using the Patsy's as an example, you can damn sure have one of the best damn offenses ever in this league and IT STILL WON'T MEAN s**t IF YOU CAN'T PROTECT THE LEAD at the end of the game.

couldn't read past there. I am afraid we view football games in entirely different manners. You seem to view that last minute and a half in a vacuum, where as you should appreciate the acumulations of gains and losses on the previous plays in the previous 58 minutes a just a tad more.

Bottom line was the Defense failed to hold onto a DEFENSIVE sided victory, but it was the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory long before that.

Oh boy. "the offense which failed to contribute to a TOTAL TEAM victory"

OK brother, whatever you say man. We'll just forget about those two Td's. They were not, contributions to "Total Team Victory".

Anybody got the url for the "Total Team Victory" stat?

Here is one.

The offense must convert at least ONE 3rd down

Its like I am in the twilight zone or something

Here is one., if you arn't in the twilight zone that is....When the team has enough points to win and the O can't convert at least one third down, you don't go hanging your hat on them to pull one out in the closing minute and half of the game, you protect the ball, burn the clock and then you punt the f**king ball and you let your D who has performed stellar during the half do their part. THAT'S CALLED PLAYING AS A TEAM...you maximize you strengths and you cover your weakness as best you can and that's exactly what decision was made. It just so happens, they did not defend that play well, and it was also a HOF QB play, a ridiculous throw and a ridiculous catch.

Now, the first down argument is nothing but shoulda woulda coulda crap...because we can go all the way back forever with that game, and name other events that were just as pivotal if not more... what about the TD that came back? Who's fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. How about the INT, whose fault was that? Rayes? Don't think so. It still boils down to individuals executing as a team, and the Vikes had an individual, a hof QB who burned us because we did not defend that play well.

Still looking for that "total team" victory stat.

sorry there is no stat for things where common sense is just assumed.

I do thank you for 1 thing, you are reminding me that in 2000 there must have been cute little Raven fans debating with other Raven fans just how valuable the offense is too.

Hope you are ready for a long season defending this position of yours. Bottom line is Favre beat the Niners again on a ridiculous throw, you take that FLUKE away and we all would have been celebrating the Defensive victory.

The Niners are going to lead the league in 3 and outs all year long my man. And they are probably going to have a winning record. So are you really going to be asking for a stat then too or will you be willing to accept this is defensive ball club who is being handicapped by Raye and co???

Seeing as how you want to get down to the nitty gritty of it. I'm just going to say it flat out. I don't give two s**t's about anything other than winning. I really don't. We aren't going to win them all, that's a given. Under Raye, Manusky, Jed York and Singletary, this team is looking better in that department than they have in long time. I'll take two out of three any day of the f**king week and there isn't a team in this league who wouldn't either. I've been watching these Niner's since they were losing , before they dominated for years, and I have watched them when they were losing again over the last years. I watched Singletary playing college ball, get drafted, play ball, win the SB, get inducted in the HOF. I really don't give two s**t's about any two bit armchair coaching on some modern discussion media, about how things should be won, about how pretty it is or not, about any statistic other than win/ loss... I only care that they win...and I only care that they make others pay for everything that get from us, work there asses off getting it, win or lose. I'm happy as a clam about the direction this team is headed, winning 2 out of three games, going into minny and slugging thier ass in the nose, even though it wasn't a win. Your not going to piss in my cornflakes about that, no matter how hard you try.

Oh I am not trying to piss in your cereal. And I am happy as hell with this team.

I am one of the self admitted "Realists" and I can't wait for my crow. This team is going to outperform way beyond my expectations and I am done questioning coach Singletary, he has my full support for the duration.

BUT.

I let me be specific what it looks like I will be eating crow about. I thought this team was going to fail because of the offense, now I think they will succeed in spite of the offense.

Coach Singletary is Much Better than I expected.
The Defense is Much Better than I expected.
The Offense is a little better than I expected.

I could not be happier right now either, and I am glad fellow Niners fans are this optimistic after a tough loss. BUT, the thread is about Raye, and right now if I had to blame one person on the Niners not being 3-0, I would have to assign that blame to Raye.

Right. Yeah. What he said. Thank you.

Look, I think that many people have MISSED this point but here I am once again to make it.

You cannot fault Raye for the loss for 2 reasons.

1)Sing has the overall say of what goes out(Run or Pass) which leads us to,

2)If our coaches were confident in Hill, then the play calling would be different.

Yeah we're a Run first oriented team, but when you are in a close game like we were last weekend then to play to protect the lead is certainly due to fail. Cause the other team is playing to WIN the freakin game.

Put a QB in there that Defenses HAVE TO raspeck and we have a team that people fear. Right now, not so much.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Look, I think that many people have MISSED this point but here I am once again to make it.

You cannot fault Raye for the loss for 2 reasons.

1)Sing has the overall say of what goes out(Run or Pass) which leads us to,

2)If our coaches were confident in Hill, then the play calling would be different.

Yeah we're a Run first oriented team, but when you are in a close game like we were last weekend then to play to protect the lead is certainly due to fail. Cause the other team is playing to WIN the freakin game.

Put a QB in there that Defenses HAVE TO raspeck and we have a team that people fear. Right now, not so much.

~Ceadder

What the hell is a "raspeck"? Is that Rastafarian respect?

Our coaches have much more confidence in Hill than they do in Smith or Davis. That's why Hill is the starter and not a backup!