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Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

Are we 2-0 if Alex was starting?

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
It is totally ridiculous how some of you can bag on Smith after the way the former regime handled his development. You guys act like it is his fault that he didn't succeed, when it has everything to do with the way he was mishandled. As far as the talent level being the same as it was when he last played...anyone that thinks it is the same (or worse) needs to take a minute and try to regain their touch with reality. Hill didn't outplay Smith this preseason, in fact he mostly looked worse than Smith, and he definitely has not lit up the world to this point, he hasn't even looked as good as he did last year. I give him credit for not making mistakes to this point, but Smith could do everything that Hill has done to this point and probably more, and may be the better long term option of the two. I just hope he keeps on working with the QB coach to get back into game shape. Like it or not Hill barely won the starting spot from a guy that had been out for 18 months with a major shoulder injury, and kinda got it by default. He surely didn't play any better than Smith, in fact, he looked more confused than Smith in the second preseason game. If Smith is so bad, then why couldn't Hill blow him away? The answer is that Smith is not as bad as some of you proclaim him to be, some of you guys are just knee jerk reactionaries that are predisposed to wildly overreact to even minor occurrences.



Such a tired excuse... I agree that throwing him into the fire from the get go wasnt helpful for him (it is for some people - like it was for Peyton Manning who actually told Nolan to do it) - but in the end, we are all responsible for our own success or lack there of in life.

Smith didnt a sense of pocket presence then, nor did he possess the ability to go through a progression... and he still doesnt today.
Originally posted by MSteitz468:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
It is totally ridiculous how some of you can bag on Smith after the way the former regime handled his development. You guys act like it is his fault that he didn't succeed, when it has everything to do with the way he was mishandled. As far as the talent level being the same as it was when he last played...anyone that thinks it is the same (or worse) needs to take a minute and try to regain their touch with reality. Hill didn't outplay Smith this preseason, in fact he mostly looked worse than Smith, and he definitely has not lit up the world to this point, he hasn't even looked as good as he did last year. I give him credit for not making mistakes to this point, but Smith could do everything that Hill has done to this point and probably more, and may be the better long term option of the two. I just hope he keeps on working with the QB coach to get back into game shape. Like it or not Hill barely won the starting spot from a guy that had been out for 18 months with a major shoulder injury, and kinda got it by default. He surely didn't play any better than Smith, in fact, he looked more confused than Smith in the second preseason game. If Smith is so bad, then why couldn't Hill blow him away? The answer is that Smith is not as bad as some of you proclaim him to be, some of you guys are just knee jerk reactionaries that are predisposed to wildly overreact to even minor occurrences.

Smith is horrible, what are you smoking?

Very original first post NOOB. Been saving that one for awhile have you
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
As much as I have given up on small hands I think we'd still be 2-0. Shaun Hill was steady and consistent when he needed to be but had a bunch of plays disrupted because of his pocket presence and side armed delivery. I think Alex, against the Cards and Hawks would do a little better in the passing game and hence, we'd still probably win and be 2-0.


I'd go and disagree with you there. I don't think Alex would do near as good. He is not cool under pressure, he lacks composure and he is very inaccurate in game situations.

Alex Smith's best pass is usually a roll out to the right and toss to the gatorade boy on the sideline. He is money with that pass. I say we'd be 0-2 or 1-1 at best because he is not going to get you key third downs when you need them.
Originally posted by BigDaddy:
Originally posted by HowardStern:
Already been done. The year after Alex took us to a 7-9 record, he started 2-0. Bertrand Berry sat on his shoulder, and the rest is history.

Props to Hill for winning more convincingly. He has a more talented team around him, to be fair though.

Alex is talented & has a lot of upside. I hate how much venom people have for him in the Bay.

How do you figure Shaun has a more talented team around him? It's basically the same exact team. Fact of the matter is the O-line was probably better under Alex. Then we had big Larry and there was Smiley(I believe). So all in all it's really a wash. People just refuse to admit Shaun is a better overall QB. Alex never really had a fair chance in the training camp competition, Alex didn't have as much talent around him, Alex has had blah-blah number of OC's in blah-blah number of years, Alex is still the youngest, Alex is this, Alex is that. F.Y.I. Shaun plays under the "SAME" conditions.

How do you figure he doesnt have more talent around him. Larry allen is the reason smith had his shoulder dislocated in the first place. Staley was a rookie and he had an immature vd. Battle was one of the starters and now he is barely on the roster. Its not a wash at all as far as the talent around him. Im just pointing out the facts i could care less who the starter is because neither is that impressive.
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Would Alex Smith have converted 4 third downs in a row on that drive in Arizona ? Or is it more likely he wouldve thrown it out of bounds, just to be "safe" ? You think Smith coulf effectively lead a drive that involves at least 14-15 passing plays without turning the ball over ?

If you think Yes, the you're obviously kidding yourself. Alex Smith was inconsistent, and had to rely HEAVILY on Gore's legs to succeed. Hill has shown that he can beat a SB contender with NO running game + playing on the road.

Get over it. Alex is a bust, and that has been acknowledged by the majority of the media covering this league.

I am not an Alex lover by an means but let’s be fair. Hill has rode Gore’s legs just as much as Alex did in 07. Without Gore last week, we lose plain and simple. Neither QB is great. Both are servicable at best.

How do you deduce that ? Week 1, no running game......Hill comes through. How do you know that Hill couldnt lead us if Gore was shut down again in Week 2 ? Case in point: look at the 4th quarter drive that Hill leads (with his arm) that chew up half the quarter. Did Smith ever do that for us ?

Actually, yes Smith did. In Dec 2006, in Seattle, in horrible conditions. The same game that Heitmann broke his leg. Smith led a drive in the 4th quarter that consumed a lot of the clock and scored on a naked bootleg. This against a very good Seahawks team in hostile territory. I know, I was at the game.

That was when Gore had rushed for 200+ yards and was absolutely torching them in the 4th quarter... The cardinals new we had to pass and still could not stop Hill.

Im tired of people using that game as support of Smith's potential - he made one great play which was when he avoided the sack, rolled out and completed the TD pass to Gore... In the 1st half - he was simply awful.

Since I was there, I can tell you that the wind was blowing about 50+ MPH, they had to delay the start of the game because of the weather. It was a monsoon. In spite of that he managed to hit VD for a TD. True, Gore did run wild like he always seems to against the Seahawk. But I can say objectively that Smith played every bit as good as Hasslebeck that night.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by djfullshred:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by oscarug:
if Alex was starting.. no way do we win vs Arizona!

his 3-out drives all day would have tired out the D, and let the cards come back in the 4th quarter!

Alex is not only inconsistent.. but throws behind receivers and at their feet. guys never have a shot to run for more yards.

Alex is a BUST.... get over it.. he had his shot and failed. Hes a nice smart kid.. but does not have the football smarts to compete in the NFL.

The 49ers have a new Offense this year and it will probably take Smith 3-7years till hes ready to start.

Hill is the 49ers QB.. yeah he didn't have 400yards last week.. but there was no need to air it out.. we ran the ball to kill the clock. and when he was asked to throw in the 4th quarter he did just fine getting us up the field! he freaking led a 9+min drive..

the 49ers just dominated the seahawks on that 2nd half! Hill and Raye are still getting comfortable with the offense. give them a few more weeks and this team will continue to improve and open up more! and if Hill starts driving up the field more, this will be a scary team to face all year! a team that has the talent to go deep in the playoffs!

all i have to say.. in 2007 Alex Smith held the team back from winning the division/playoffs. THE KID IS A INJURED PRONE BUST.. his best year in 2007 = TONY BANKS ROOKIE year numbers....

Smith key career stats: 30starts 19TD's, 31INT's, 63.5QB rating.

Hill key career stats: 12starts 19TD's, 9INT's, 90.1QB rating.




now the key Question. who gives you a better shot to win if Hill gets injured

Nate Davis or Alex Smith?

my vote is on Davis


Hill almost threw 3 ints in the first 2 games,shaky pocket presence,ran into a couple sacks,throws to Bruce when he's double teamed,can't find an open Morgan,did have nice drive against AZ,otherwise he's doing OK

The D is the main reason for the 2-0 start

If you think he'll ever take the Niners to the SuperBowl---

so sorry

"Almost" ints don't count. I love how some fans reach so hard to criticize by citing "almost" mistakes.

Hell, I almost f*ck up many times in my job, but I am golden there because I rarely ever f*ck up when imprtant things are on the line, and get the job done right.

Lemme know when you are Quarterbacking the 1st string Offense for the 9ers. Almosts do and SHOULD be considered when you talk about a QB.

~Ceadder

While you are counting almost interceptions, I am looking at actual stats that he has thrown 9 picks in 12 games played. That is .75 ints per game. Keep on reaching.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by djfullshred:

Ah, talking about stats without showing the stats. A webzone forum staple.

Since I am bored, I will help you all out.

Let's just say that '06 is the only year we can judge Smith on. And we'll use last year '08 to judge Hill, since that was the most games he played in one season thus far...

Smith in '06 averaged 180 yards per game passing, one TD & one int per game. He had about 28 passing attempts per game for an average of 6.5 yards per completion with a 58.1% completion percentage. His total season rating was 74.8

Hill in 08 averaged 227 yards per game passing, 1.4 TDs & .9 int per game.
He had about 32 passing attempts per game for an average of 7.1 yards per completion with a 62.8% completion percentage. His total season QB rating was 87.5.

Now taking all the fan passion out of the debate, which guy looks better?

First, answer this...

Which had a much better supporting cast on each side of the ball?
Which was far younger and was universally believed to have potential to grow into the QB role?
Which one had the disaster named Kwame Harris protecting him?
Which one had the #26 overall defense compared to the 13th overall defense?
Which one was fortunate enough to come off the bench after several games from which the team could make adjustments?

oh jeez here we go. I wonder which one had a happier childhood. I suppose we should take that into account.


It is intersting that people only defend Smith in talking about why he failed, rather than proividing much discussion on what is actually good about him as a starter. Universally agreed to have more potential sounds exaggerated, and rather vague as an attribute btw.
[ Edited by djfullshred on Sep 23, 2009 at 9:30 PM ]
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Would Alex Smith have converted 4 third downs in a row on that drive in Arizona ? Or is it more likely he wouldve thrown it out of bounds, just to be "safe" ? You think Smith coulf effectively lead a drive that involves at least 14-15 passing plays without turning the ball over ?

If you think Yes, the you're obviously kidding yourself. Alex Smith was inconsistent, and had to rely HEAVILY on Gore's legs to succeed. Hill has shown that he can beat a SB contender with NO running game + playing on the road.

Get over it. Alex is a bust, and that has been acknowledged by the majority of the media covering this league.

I am not an Alex lover by an means but let’s be fair. Hill has rode Gore’s legs just as much as Alex did in 07. Without Gore last week, we lose plain and simple. Neither QB is great. Both are servicable at best.

How do you deduce that ? Week 1, no running game......Hill comes through. How do you know that Hill couldnt lead us if Gore was shut down again in Week 2 ? Case in point: look at the 4th quarter drive that Hill leads (with his arm) that chew up half the quarter. Did Smith ever do that for us ?

Actually, yes Smith did. In Dec 2006, in Seattle, in horrible conditions. The same game that Heitmann broke his leg. Smith led a drive in the 4th quarter that consumed a lot of the clock and scored on a naked bootleg. This against a very good Seahawks team in hostile territory. I know, I was at the game.

That was when Gore had rushed for 200+ yards and was absolutely torching them in the 4th quarter... The cardinals new we had to pass and still could not stop Hill.

Im tired of people using that game as support of Smith's potential - he made one great play which was when he avoided the sack, rolled out and completed the TD pass to Gore... In the 1st half - he was simply awful.

Since I was there, I can tell you that the wind was blowing about 50+ MPH, they had to delay the start of the game because of the weather. It was a monsoon. In spite of that he managed to hit VD for a TD. True, Gore did run wild like he always seems to against the Seahawk. But I can say objectively that Smith played every bit as good as Hasslebeck that night.

He stunk it up for 3 and a 1/2 quarters that day. If all you have on him is one drive after 3 years worth of play, and you're using that drive to compare to all of Hill's success since 2007, then I dont know what to say to you. Except that you pretty much put things in perspective for everyone.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Would Alex Smith have converted 4 third downs in a row on that drive in Arizona ? Or is it more likely he wouldve thrown it out of bounds, just to be "safe" ? You think Smith coulf effectively lead a drive that involves at least 14-15 passing plays without turning the ball over ?

If you think Yes, the you're obviously kidding yourself. Alex Smith was inconsistent, and had to rely HEAVILY on Gore's legs to succeed. Hill has shown that he can beat a SB contender with NO running game + playing on the road.

Get over it. Alex is a bust, and that has been acknowledged by the majority of the media covering this league.

I am not an Alex lover by an means but let’s be fair. Hill has rode Gore’s legs just as much as Alex did in 07. Without Gore last week, we lose plain and simple. Neither QB is great. Both are servicable at best.

How do you deduce that ? Week 1, no running game......Hill comes through. How do you know that Hill couldnt lead us if Gore was shut down again in Week 2 ? Case in point: look at the 4th quarter drive that Hill leads (with his arm) that chew up half the quarter. Did Smith ever do that for us ?

Actually, yes Smith did. In Dec 2006, in Seattle, in horrible conditions. The same game that Heitmann broke his leg. Smith led a drive in the 4th quarter that consumed a lot of the clock and scored on a naked bootleg. This against a very good Seahawks team in hostile territory. I know, I was at the game.

That was when Gore had rushed for 200+ yards and was absolutely torching them in the 4th quarter... The cardinals new we had to pass and still could not stop Hill.

Im tired of people using that game as support of Smith's potential - he made one great play which was when he avoided the sack, rolled out and completed the TD pass to Gore... In the 1st half - he was simply awful.

Since I was there, I can tell you that the wind was blowing about 50+ MPH, they had to delay the start of the game because of the weather. It was a monsoon. In spite of that he managed to hit VD for a TD. True, Gore did run wild like he always seems to against the Seahawk. But I can say objectively that Smith played every bit as good as Hasslebeck that night.

He stunk it up for 3 and a 1/2 quarters that day. If all you have on him is one drive after 3 years worth of play, and you're using that drive to compare to all of Hill's success since 2007, then I dont know what to say to you. Except that you pretty much put things in perspective for everyone.

The following is a link to the game recap and box score etc. See for yourself. He played very well considering the conditions, which were miserable until around halftime.

Note.. Alex threw zero picks, while Hasslebeck threw 2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=261214026
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by abowers1984:
Originally posted by DaveWilcox:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Cuphalffull:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Would Alex Smith have converted 4 third downs in a row on that drive in Arizona ? Or is it more likely he wouldve thrown it out of bounds, just to be "safe" ? You think Smith coulf effectively lead a drive that involves at least 14-15 passing plays without turning the ball over ?

If you think Yes, the you're obviously kidding yourself. Alex Smith was inconsistent, and had to rely HEAVILY on Gore's legs to succeed. Hill has shown that he can beat a SB contender with NO running game + playing on the road.

Get over it. Alex is a bust, and that has been acknowledged by the majority of the media covering this league.

I am not an Alex lover by an means but let’s be fair. Hill has rode Gore’s legs just as much as Alex did in 07. Without Gore last week, we lose plain and simple. Neither QB is great. Both are servicable at best.

How do you deduce that ? Week 1, no running game......Hill comes through. How do you know that Hill couldnt lead us if Gore was shut down again in Week 2 ? Case in point: look at the 4th quarter drive that Hill leads (with his arm) that chew up half the quarter. Did Smith ever do that for us ?

Actually, yes Smith did. In Dec 2006, in Seattle, in horrible conditions. The same game that Heitmann broke his leg. Smith led a drive in the 4th quarter that consumed a lot of the clock and scored on a naked bootleg. This against a very good Seahawks team in hostile territory. I know, I was at the game.

That was when Gore had rushed for 200+ yards and was absolutely torching them in the 4th quarter... The cardinals new we had to pass and still could not stop Hill.

Im tired of people using that game as support of Smith's potential - he made one great play which was when he avoided the sack, rolled out and completed the TD pass to Gore... In the 1st half - he was simply awful.

Since I was there, I can tell you that the wind was blowing about 50+ MPH, they had to delay the start of the game because of the weather. It was a monsoon. In spite of that he managed to hit VD for a TD. True, Gore did run wild like he always seems to against the Seahawk. But I can say objectively that Smith played every bit as good as Hasslebeck that night.

He stunk it up for 3 and a 1/2 quarters that day. If all you have on him is one drive after 3 years worth of play, and you're using that drive to compare to all of Hill's success since 2007, then I dont know what to say to you. Except that you pretty much put things in perspective for everyone.

The following is a link to the game recap and box score etc. See for yourself. He played very well considering the conditions, which were miserable until around halftime.

Note.. Alex threw zero picks, while Hasslebeck threw 2.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=261214026


The turnaround was startling, after the 49ers' offense went the first 44 minutes with just four first downs and rarely looked threatening.

Again, you're just adding more fuel to my comments. The entire article is stating how MIRACULOUS the entire situation was. Alex Smith played horribly for 80% of the game, only to help lead the team back for a victory. The article even goes on to say that Smith looked like Montana and/or Young.

The article's intention was that Alex Smith looked like a bright young developing quarterback. I wonder if the author would change anything if he could go back and edit, as it now appears that that particular game was an aberration to Smith's typical play.

Can you say the same for Hill ?
No we would probably be 0-2. Alex Smith sucks, Hill has carried us to victory in both games. Without his amazing arm and awesome stats we'd be nothing. Alex sucks.

If Alex was our quarterback, Frank Gore would probably have gotten 0 yards in the 2nd game, because Alex sucks so bad. I bet if Alex fumbled against the Seas**ts, Joe Staley would have not gotten to the ball in time because Alex sucks.
[ Edited by Method on Sep 23, 2009 at 9:53 PM ]
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
As much as I have given up on small hands I think we'd still be 2-0. Shaun Hill was steady and consistent when he needed to be but had a bunch of plays disrupted because of his pocket presence and side armed delivery. I think Alex, against the Cards and Hawks would do a little better in the passing game and hence, we'd still probably win and be 2-0.


I'd go and disagree with you there. I don't think Alex would do near as good. He is not cool under pressure, he lacks composure and he is very inaccurate in game situations.

Alex Smith's best pass is usually a roll out to the right and toss to the gatorade boy on the sideline. He is money with that pass. I say we'd be 0-2 or 1-1 at best because he is not going to get you key third downs when you need them.

There have been a few drives in his career in which Alex actually did drive down the field and win.

Don't you think that those drives indicate that he was in fact composed and "cool under pressure"?

-9fA
BTW, our 3rd down percentage would probably be worse with Alex Smith in there. At 36% for the season, which is 25th in the NFL, we're converting 3rd downs at an incredible rate! If Alex was in there I bet it drops to 25%! We're so high right now, Shaun has done such a great job. Alex would have no chance for a better percentage.

We also are averaging 14.5 first downs a game, which is 30th in the NFL. Alex would probably make us 32nd.
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by Method:
No we would probably be 0-2. Alex Smith sucks, Hill has carried us to victory in both games. Without his amazing arm and awesome stats we'd be nothing. Alex sucks.

If Alex was our quarterback, Frank Gore would probably have gotten 0 yards in the 2nd game, because Alex sucks so bad. I bet if Alex fumbled against the Seas**ts, Joe Staley would have not gotten to the ball in time because Alex sucks.

You're thinking too hard. Chances are that Alex Smith would not have converted any of those 3rd downs in the 2nd half, hence allowing Seneca Wallace guide Seattle right back into the game. This was typical of Smith in the hayday. Working our defense into the ground because he couldnt move the chains offensively.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by ninerfan818:
Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
As much as I have given up on small hands I think we'd still be 2-0. Shaun Hill was steady and consistent when he needed to be but had a bunch of plays disrupted because of his pocket presence and side armed delivery. I think Alex, against the Cards and Hawks would do a little better in the passing game and hence, we'd still probably win and be 2-0.


I'd go and disagree with you there. I don't think Alex would do near as good. He is not cool under pressure, he lacks composure and he is very inaccurate in game situations.

Alex Smith's best pass is usually a roll out to the right and toss to the gatorade boy on the sideline. He is money with that pass. I say we'd be 0-2 or 1-1 at best because he is not going to get you key third downs when you need them.

There have been a few drives in his career in which Alex actually did drive down the field and win.

Don't you think that those drives indicate that he was in fact composed and "cool under pressure"?

-9fA

I for one don't rule out that Smith may one day be a good starter in the NFL. My opinion is he needs more training before getting back out there as a starter. It would be good for him, and for the 49ers. If those drives we're speaking of were more frequent, he would be playing right now. He looked like he was getting better this last preseason. But he didn't do enough to show he is better than Hill, and should be starting this year. Unless Hill does great things this year, there will be competition for the job again next season.