Crabtree Discussion Thread

Who's Michael Crabtree? Sounds somewhat familiar, but I can't place it. Oh well, must not be anyone special!

At this point the only thing I care about is that we salvage some value from that pick. Hopefully we can find a trade partner come March when we would be allowed to trade his rights again. I'm pretty much convinced that we'll never see Crabtree play in a 49ers uniform. Time to move on.

Originally posted by ads_2006:
so the niners would rather lose the number 10 pick

instead of paying a couple extra mill

knowing a rookie cap system is likely on the way as well



This is the same front office that gave Clements a good deal of money as well too

They won't lose the value of the pick at #10 because as non-substantiated reports say there are teams out there that want to pay Crabtree. OK, so we wait like M. Miaocco said and trade the greedy, self-proclaimed #1 WR in the 2009 draft for another #1 pick. There has been a precedent set for this and I look forward to it.

If he doesn't want to man up and take what fate gave him on draft day, then let fate decide his plight after he doesn't sign with us.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents to this ridiculously long thread...



There you go... now that that's over with.

Seriously mod's, 140 something pages and counting, how is this better than multiple threads? You know no one is going to read every post (2k and counting)... this just blows me away is all, LOL.

what would you recommend we do?

It's been mention many times over by different posters. It reall doesn't matter what we suggest. It's going to get modded the way it's going to get modded anyway.


I'll waste my keystrokes yet again.


Just because 2, 3 or 4 threads may be talking about a certain player means the discussion is the same. But mods see multiple threads on a certain player and merge them. Thus the intent of a certain thread gets lost in another thread discussing something totally different.

Mods should atleast wait and see if the multiple thread(s) takes on the same discussion as the "official" thread before merging. If the content is relatively the same then merge.

There are 30 threads on each page. Is it really going to hurt if the bottom 10ish gets bumped to the 2nd page?



But back to your post as to what to do in this particular situation.

I don't know how many posts in here have been merged. But I bet if other threads that had different intent didn't get locked, this thread wouldn't be as long and posters would be able to pick out what they wanted to read. Instead of having to skip a thread entirely because of the length.

Thank you... it seems like they just take the easy way out by merging everthing together into one monstrous thread that no one even wants to read due to it being longer than War and Peace.

Once again, it's just funny to me... other than that, I could care less what the "Mods" do.

Originally posted by PTulini:
As far as how I see it, If Crabtree has no intention of signing with the 49ers, then why would he still be living in the San Francisco area? I would think he would have moved back to Dallas by now to be near his family. Add that to the fact that he was working out with Trent Dilfer. I think a deal will get done, its just a matter of time.

I also think Crabtree is an important piece in order for this offense to succeed. Yes, we have other WRs, but we need someone who can stretch the field, get the YAC, and has sure hands! Right now, we do have good depth, but we lack that playmaker. Isaac Bruce is coming towards the end of his career. Can he play at a high level of the course of an entire season? What happens if Bruce or someone else gets injured?

I know our offense will resemble that of the Ravens or Steelers, but look at how successful the Steelers offense is with WRs like Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. Crabtree would be useful when opposing defenses are stacking the box expecting us to run. We can then use play-actions passes or screen passes to get the football out to Michael Crabtree. In my mind, Crabtree would get his oppertunities and have a big role in helping this offense succeed! We may not need him right now, but I think we will need him in the future.

Bottom line: I believe both sides will find a way to get this thing done. I'm also not concerned with Michael Crabtree being a "prima donna." In my opinion, I think Crabtree is just very young, nieve, and at times too trusting with those that are around him. I think once he becomes a part of this team that things will change. We are well aware that Coach Singletary won't tolerate egos and players who think they are above the team. Look at how much Vernon has changed his attitude for the better. Coach Singletary and our players could do the same for Michael Crabtree.

I agree for many reasons. All of his coaches have spoken about the team player and Dilfer has only backed up those kinds of statements. Those fools who think that he doesn't want to play here miss the fact that he is still in the area and working out. We don't have a 1000 yd WR on the team and haven't had for far too long ....... Damn I want the front office to get this done ...... this isn't the right situation to be pinching their pennies. His character doesn't worry me in the least but losing this opportunity sucks. IMHO .....

[ Edited by 49ERGUY on Sep 10, 2009 at 16:05:36 ]

Awesome, we hit 160 pages! by saturday we should be at 200 for sure and then he will be forced to sign.

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by ads_2006:
so the niners would rather lose the number 10 pick

instead of paying a couple extra mill

knowing a rookie cap system is likely on the way as well



This is the same front office that gave Clements a good deal of money as well too

They won't lose the value of the pick at #10 because as non-substantiated reports say there are teams out there that want to pay Crabtree. OK, so we wait like M. Miaocco said and trade the greedy, self-proclaimed #1 WR in the 2009 draft for another #1 pick. There has been a precedent set for this and I look forward to it.

If he doesn't want to man up and take what fate gave him on draft day, then let fate decide his plight after he doesn't sign with us.

we wouldn't have any leverage imo

Teams will either give us lower than a 1st rounder or just take their chances in the draft.

If they dont get him, I dont think they will care. I doubt they will waste a 1st rounder on an individual that has sat out a whole year, unless he puts up a good 40 time.

Originally posted by BigMar:

Originally posted by dj43:
I am not in total agreement with all of the Sando article but I do believe, and have posted here before, that Crabtree does not want to play in this SYSTEM. He might want to live here and play for the 49ers but he doesn't want to play the way Jimmy Raye and Mike Singletary want to play.

To further solidify my point; the play of Shaun Hill in pre-season does not inspire anyone to think the 49er passing game is going to be anything greater than mediocre at best. In fact, various league observers continue to say that the lack of a quality quarterback will be a limiting factor to the overall success of the team.

Therefore, giving him a slotted contract with a bunch of incentives built in makes no sense to Crabtree. If the offense is built around running the ball, Crabtree has little chance of hitting the incentive goals. As a result, he wants more in guaranteed money, and he is justified in asking for it, and the 49ers should be willing to give it to him.

If the 48ers are now stuck with holding to the slotting system, then I believe we can plan on a season-long holdout and taking our chances with a March trade. It the 49ers can get another first (late teens) and a third for him, that would be the best hope at this point.

I just do not think this is all about the money. That is a part of it but I am convinced it has a great deal to do with the offensive scheme and the lack of a quality QB.

Young players want to play in an exciting scheme, not a Woody Hayes "three yards and a cloud of dust" system. Crabtree may be a diva, a prima donna or just a young kid who lives to catch the football, but he deserves to have a chance to play in a system that suits his talents, or get paid very handsomely for putting up with standing an watching some guy run it.

To bad... because Dallas proved run based team can work with Emmit (Gore), Irvin (Craptree), Harper (Morgan) and good TE (Vernon)

Don't ask me who plays Aikman

I understand your point, and it would work, EXCEPT that Shaun Hill is not Troy Aikman, not even close...and Michael Crabtree knows it so he insists on getting more guaranteed money.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The problem with the Niners' management is that THEY also put themselves in this position. It is not simply one-sided. If honoring the slot was of the highest importance to them, which seems to be implied in their statements to MM< they could have offered one dollar less than DHB money in guaranteed and total money, before Monroe and Raji signed.

If this contract I listed above was offered, then cheers to the Niners for this bold move. I just tend to believe that the Niners never intended to make this bold contract offer.

Once Monroe and Raji signed, then the door closed for them to offer anything outside the slot and save face.

So, the question is: What did the Niners initially offer before Raji and Monroe signed, what did Parker want, and was there an opportunity to solve this long ago?

I tend to believe this would have been resolved if the Niners did take the bold step to make that contract offer.

I have a problem with this line of thinking.

IF the situation is as has been portrayed (i.e., the team made an offer and Parker either said nothing OR said no), then the ball is squarely in Parker's camp to make a COUNTER OFFER.

IF Parker has made no counter-offer, then I think that the team is within its rights (and the rules of negotiation) to sit tight until such a counter-offer is made.

SO.. we trade Crabtree after the season for a #1 pick. We then have 3 picks in round 1 and get a pass rusher, Dez Bryant, and Sam Bradford. Its all good boys.

Seriously though, I think that is eventually what is going to happen. Crabtree is still going to have value to a team picking in the middle to end of rd 1 and someone will pay him the money. The Niners need to hope there are at least 2 teams that covet him so that they can at least get a first rd pick.

Originally posted by pdxredandgold:
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Son of a B

Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI

Well that's that, so who are we going to trade him to?

Originally posted by PTulini:
As far as how I see it, If Crabtree has no intention of signing with the 49ers, then why would he still be living in the San Francisco area?

After living his entire life in Texas, maybe he just wants to spend some time in the Golden State. Wouldn't be the first time a college kid took off for a few months to see the world.

Quote:
I know our offense will resemble that of the Ravens or Steelers, but look at how successful the Steelers offense is with WRs like Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. Crabtree would be useful when opposing defenses are stacking the box expecting us to run. We can then use play-actions passes or screen passes to get the football out to Michael Crabtree. In my mind, Crabtree would get his oppertunities and have a big role in helping this offense succeed! We may not need him right now, but I think we will need him in the future.

Good idea if the 49er quarterback had Big Ben's arm...but he doesn't. He has a pop gun.

Quote:
I'm also not concerned with Michael Crabtree being a "prima donna."

I'm not either. I just don't think he wants to play in this offense for the money offered.

3 draft picks get berry/mays gerakd mccoy(best DT in draft) and kindle

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49erWill:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Hey, I just wanted to add my two cents to this ridiculously long thread...



There you go... now that that's over with.

Seriously mod's, 140 something pages and counting, how is this better than multiple threads? You know no one is going to read every post (2k and counting)... this just blows me away is all, LOL.

what would you recommend we do?

It's been mention many times over by different posters. It reall doesn't matter what we suggest. It's going to get modded the way it's going to get modded anyway.


I'll waste my keystrokes yet again.


Just because 2, 3 or 4 threads may be talking about a certain player means the discussion is the same. But mods see multiple threads on a certain player and merge them. Thus the intent of a certain thread gets lost in another thread discussing something totally different.

Mods should atleast wait and see if the multiple thread(s) takes on the same discussion as the "official" thread before merging. If the content is relatively the same then merge.

There are 30 threads on each page. Is it really going to hurt if the bottom 10ish gets bumped to the 2nd page?



But back to your post as to what to do in this particular situation.

I don't know how many posts in here have been merged. But I bet if other threads that had different intent didn't get locked, this thread wouldn't be as long and posters would be able to pick out what they wanted to read. Instead of having to skip a thread entirely because of the length.

Thank you... it seems like they just take the easy way out by merging everthing together into one monstrous thread that no one even wants to read due to it being longer than War and Peace.

Once again, it's just funny to me... other than that, I could care less what the "Mods" do.

Your points are noted, but I can tell you that not everyone shares this opinion. Many posters prefer to NOT have several threads discussing the same issues with several different spins. Threads then become littered with posts such as "like I said in THIS thread..." with links to where the discussion is already going on. It's not pretty that way either, and causes people to lose interest. Then we do end up with good threads falling off the first page of the forum. Can you see that side of it?

We are doing our best to assure that the boards are easy to navigate. Unfortunately, we can't please everyone no matter how we handle it.

My suggestion would be, that you just pick up reading the lengthy threads where you left off on your last visit. There shouldn't be much difference between that, and having to skim through numerous thread topics for what you're looking for. Which would SURELY mean going through the first 2 pages of NT if we let everyone have a free-for-all.

This is the best way that we have found to handle things.

If you have further questions or concerns, please PM a moderator rather than post complaints in threads.

Thanks.

I thought Simmons' take was funny. Not sure if it's a compelling enough argument to side with Crabtree, but, I can see where he's coming from:

Quote:
As you probably have heard, San Francisco rookie holdout Michael Crabtree still hasn't signed. Why? He believes he was the best receiver in the 2009 draft, so even though he was picked three spots after Darrius Heyward-Bey -- who signed with Oakland for $23.5 million over seven years -- according to the Crabtree Scouting Ratings, he still should be paid like the best rookie receiver because every mock draft had him higher than Heyward-Bey. And you know what? He's right.

Let's flip this around. You're 29. You've been dating the same girl for nearly three years. She is the best catch of her college friends. One of her less fetching friends meets a guy who is wealthier and more successful than you. Inexplicably, he proposes within seven months. It makes no sense. She totally outkicked her coverage with this guy; he doesn't even know about her "Girls Gone Wild" appearance yet. Still, the whole thing plants those "if she's getting married, what's wrong with me?" doubts in your girlfriend. She wants a ring, and she wants it now. You can't believe it. You thought you had already worked this out -- you were going to wait to get married until you were financially stable. You take her out to dinner and make the following argument: Look, just because somebody proposed to your crazy friend doesn't mean that: (A) she's better than you; or (B) this should affect your situation in any way.

Basically, this is Crabtree's argument. He is better than Heyward-Bey. Everyone agreed in April. The Raiders passed for the simple reason that they are the dumbest franchise in the league, as we keep remembering every few months. San Francisco was blessed to get a top-five talent at No. 10. It should pay for this blessing. So far, it has not done so. Crabtree is being called crazy, but really, he just believes in his own talent. He really WOULD throw away this season to prove a point. That's not crazy, that's conviction! Michael Crabtree might be ruining his career and setting hundreds of thousands of dollars on fire, but at least he earned my Miller Lite Great Call of the Week.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by pdxredandgold:
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135

Son of a B

Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI

Well that's that, so who are we going to trade him to?

Good.