I am not in total agreement with all of the Sando article but I do believe, and have posted here before, that Crabtree does not want to play in this SYSTEM. He might want to live here and play for the 49ers but he doesn't want to play the way Jimmy Raye and Mike Singletary want to play.
To further solidify my point; the play of Shaun Hill in pre-season does not inspire anyone to think the 49er passing game is going to be anything greater than mediocre at best. In fact, various league observers continue to say that the lack of a quality quarterback will be a limiting factor to the overall success of the team.
Therefore, giving him a slotted contract with a bunch of incentives built in makes no sense to Crabtree. If the offense is built around running the ball, Crabtree has little chance of hitting the incentive goals. As a result, he wants more in guaranteed money, and he is justified in asking for it, and the 49ers should be willing to give it to him.
If the 48ers are now stuck with holding to the slotting system, then I believe we can plan on a season-long holdout and taking our chances with a March trade. It the 49ers can get another first (late teens) and a third for him, that would be the best hope at this point.
I just do not think this is all about the money. That is a part of it but I am convinced it has a great deal to do with the offensive scheme and the lack of a quality QB.
Young players want to play in an exciting scheme, not a Woody Hayes "three yards and a cloud of dust" system. Crabtree may be a diva, a prima donna or just a young kid who lives to catch the football, but he deserves to have a chance to play in a system that suits his talents, or get paid very handsomely for putting up with standing an watching some guy run it.
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Crabtree Discussion Thread
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:24 PM
- dj43
- Moderator
- Posts: 35,654
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:26 PM
- 49wyztoscore
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,048
Originally posted by KRS-1:Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:Originally posted by KRS-1:Originally posted by 49wyztoscore:Originally posted by RedWaltz24:Originally posted by MadDog49er:Originally posted by jame-gumb:Originally posted by KRS-1:
From all speculation we have heard it does not sound like we are negotiating at all.
And we don't have to. SF offered Crabtree what he's worth. He was the No. 10 pick in the draft. He was offerd more than the 11th and less than the ninth. Crabtree has ZERO leverage. If I were SF, I'd laugh at him and his agent if they tried to negotiate from their position. Most logical people would.
Worth is based on what the market will offer.
Zero leverage is a bad argument. Crabtree doesn't have to play. That is his leverage.
As Mike Sando astutely pointed out, Crabtree was a "value" pick, not a "need", pick by the Niners. Given the run heavy offense the Niners intend to employ, they will not be lost this year if Crabtree sits out. If the Niners were trying to use the same kind of offense as an Arizona with the WR's they have now, then the Niners would be quite desperate for Crabtree and he would have some leverage.
The Niners would LIKE to have Crabtree, but do not NEED him. Crabtree would like to have the money the Niners do have, but apparently, according to Sanders, he doesn't need it. If Crabtree really doesn't need millions of dollars right now, and doesn't care about playing in the NFL right now, wasting a year of productivity and potential money earning, and he has no plans to budge, and, the Niners, who have everything to lose if they cave-in to his terrorist demands, then I can see a year long hold out.
In short, though Crabtree appears to have talent, his leverage is miniscule, because, as of yet, he is an unproven NFL talent, and the Niners do not NEED him for a run heavy offense. In the words of a very wise man, "you can't miss what you don't have." The Niners will get value for Crabtree whether or not he signs, while Crabtree risks the possibility of ending up somewhere else where he will make less money.
Good luck Crabs, you'll need it.
He will lose way more than he would gain holding out. He was drafted at the 10th slot so it is what it is. He will sign. Parker thinks our fronto office is weak and once he finds out it's not he will sign. The Niners won't miss him but Crabs will miss the money. You can't miss what you don't have applies to the Niners but not Crabs. If someone honestly thinks he will be better off sitting out then I have an everlasting gobstopper to sell you. I doubt Crabs is that stupid.
If Crabtree lights it up elsewhere the fans will miss him unless we can manage to get another playmaking WR. The fan will look back at the mistake we made by not attempting to pay him more money when we had the chance. Crabtree will come out the bigger winner IMHO in the situation if things turn out that way.
That is a if the Niners are will to take on him. Crabs will get the money but it's not written in stone that Crabs won't be a flop. That's the difference. His side of the bargain is written in paper. Preferably Benjamins. Crabs success in the league is unproven and the QB issue is bulls**t. If Bruce can get over 800 yards in his late 30's then Crabs will still get his numbers.
Scott certainly believed that Crabtree was a home run, he went on record saying so. While it is true that he is no sure thing, we would still be trading away a so-called "home run" player that was highly coveted by our GM to another team for less than what it cost to get him all because we were not willing to pay outside the slot ?
Risk vs Reward. If Scott and the FO don't take the risk they stand to lose a huge reward.
Everyteam thinks they have a home run. Teams and scouts had Monroe as the highest rated tackle but he didn't complain. It's a pipe dream for Crab's agent IMO.
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:32 PM
- PTulini
- Veteran
- Posts: 12,401
As far as how I see it, If Crabtree has no intention of signing with the 49ers, then why would he still be living in the San Francisco area? I would think he would have moved back to Dallas by now to be near his family. Add that to the fact that he was working out with Trent Dilfer. I think a deal will get done, its just a matter of time.
I also think Crabtree is an important piece in order for this offense to succeed. Yes, we have other WRs, but we need someone who can stretch the field, get the YAC, and has sure hands! Right now, we do have good depth, but we lack that playmaker. Isaac Bruce is coming towards the end of his career. Can he play at a high level of the course of an entire season? What happens if Bruce or someone else gets injured?
I know our offense will resemble that of the Ravens or Steelers, but look at how successful the Steelers offense is with WRs like Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. Crabtree would be useful when opposing defenses are stacking the box expecting us to run. We can then use play-actions passes or screen passes to get the football out to Michael Crabtree. In my mind, Crabtree would get his oppertunities and have a big role in helping this offense succeed! We may not need him right now, but I think we will need him in the future.
Bottom line: I believe both sides will find a way to get this thing done. I'm also not concerned with Michael Crabtree being a "prima donna." In my opinion, I think Crabtree is just very young, nieve, and at times too trusting with those that are around him. I think once he becomes a part of this team that things will change. We are well aware that Coach Singletary won't tolerate egos and players who think they are above the team. Look at how much Vernon has changed his attitude for the better. Coach Singletary and our players could do the same for Michael Crabtree.
[ Edited by PTulini on Sep 10, 2009 at 15:34:25 ]
I also think Crabtree is an important piece in order for this offense to succeed. Yes, we have other WRs, but we need someone who can stretch the field, get the YAC, and has sure hands! Right now, we do have good depth, but we lack that playmaker. Isaac Bruce is coming towards the end of his career. Can he play at a high level of the course of an entire season? What happens if Bruce or someone else gets injured?
I know our offense will resemble that of the Ravens or Steelers, but look at how successful the Steelers offense is with WRs like Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. Crabtree would be useful when opposing defenses are stacking the box expecting us to run. We can then use play-actions passes or screen passes to get the football out to Michael Crabtree. In my mind, Crabtree would get his oppertunities and have a big role in helping this offense succeed! We may not need him right now, but I think we will need him in the future.
Bottom line: I believe both sides will find a way to get this thing done. I'm also not concerned with Michael Crabtree being a "prima donna." In my opinion, I think Crabtree is just very young, nieve, and at times too trusting with those that are around him. I think once he becomes a part of this team that things will change. We are well aware that Coach Singletary won't tolerate egos and players who think they are above the team. Look at how much Vernon has changed his attitude for the better. Coach Singletary and our players could do the same for Michael Crabtree.
[ Edited by PTulini on Sep 10, 2009 at 15:34:25 ]
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:37 PM
- valrod33
- Hall of Small
- Posts: 137,970
Originally posted by PTulini:
As far as how I see it, If Crabtree has no intention of signing with the 49ers, then why would he still be living in the San Francisco area? I would think he would have moved back to Dallas by now to be near his family. Add that to the fact that he was working out with Trent Dilfer. I think a deal will get done, its just a matter of time.
I also think Crabtree is an important piece in order for this offense to succeed. Yes, we have other WRs, but we need someone who can stretch the field, get the YAC, and has sure hands! Right now, we do have good depth, but we lack that playmaker. Isaac Bruce is coming towards the end of his career. Can he play at a high level of the course of an entire season? What happens if Bruce or someone else gets injured?
I know our offense will resemble that of the Ravens or Steelers, but look at how successful the Steelers offense is with WRs like Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes. Crabtree would be useful when opposing defenses are stacking the box expecting us to run. We can then use play-actions passes or screen passes to get the football out to Michael Crabtree. In my mind, Crabtree would get his oppertunities and have a big role in helping this offense succeed! We may not need him right now, but I think we will need him in the future.
Bottom line: I believe both sides will find a way to get this thing done. I'm also not concerned with Michael Crabtree being a "prima donna." In my opinion, I think Crabtree is just very young, nieve, and at times too trusting with those that are around him. I think once he becomes a part of this team that things will change. We are well aware that Coach Singletary won't tolerate egos and players who think they are above the team. Look at how much Vernon has changed his attitude for the better. Coach Singletary and our players could do the same for Michael Crabtree.
that was 3 weeks ago, dont read too much into the Dilfer thing
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:38 PM
- BigMar
- Member
- Posts: 1,004
Originally posted by dj43:
I am not in total agreement with all of the Sando article but I do believe, and have posted here before, that Crabtree does not want to play in this SYSTEM. He might want to live here and play for the 49ers but he doesn't want to play the way Jimmy Raye and Mike Singletary want to play.
To further solidify my point; the play of Shaun Hill in pre-season does not inspire anyone to think the 49er passing game is going to be anything greater than mediocre at best. In fact, various league observers continue to say that the lack of a quality quarterback will be a limiting factor to the overall success of the team.
Therefore, giving him a slotted contract with a bunch of incentives built in makes no sense to Crabtree. If the offense is built around running the ball, Crabtree has little chance of hitting the incentive goals. As a result, he wants more in guaranteed money, and he is justified in asking for it, and the 49ers should be willing to give it to him.
If the 48ers are now stuck with holding to the slotting system, then I believe we can plan on a season-long holdout and taking our chances with a March trade. It the 49ers can get another first (late teens) and a third for him, that would be the best hope at this point.
I just do not think this is all about the money. That is a part of it but I am convinced it has a great deal to do with the offensive scheme and the lack of a quality QB.
Young players want to play in an exciting scheme, not a Woody Hayes "three yards and a cloud of dust" system. Crabtree may be a diva, a prima donna or just a young kid who lives to catch the football, but he deserves to have a chance to play in a system that suits his talents, or get paid very handsomely for putting up with standing an watching some guy run it.
To bad... because Dallas proved run based team can work with Emmit (Gore), Irvin (Craptree), Harper (Morgan) and good TE (Vernon)
Don't ask me who plays Aikman
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:40 PM
- darkknight49
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,878
Originally posted by BigMar:Originally posted by dj43:
I am not in total agreement with all of the Sando article but I do believe, and have posted here before, that Crabtree does not want to play in this SYSTEM. He might want to live here and play for the 49ers but he doesn't want to play the way Jimmy Raye and Mike Singletary want to play.
To further solidify my point; the play of Shaun Hill in pre-season does not inspire anyone to think the 49er passing game is going to be anything greater than mediocre at best. In fact, various league observers continue to say that the lack of a quality quarterback will be a limiting factor to the overall success of the team.
Therefore, giving him a slotted contract with a bunch of incentives built in makes no sense to Crabtree. If the offense is built around running the ball, Crabtree has little chance of hitting the incentive goals. As a result, he wants more in guaranteed money, and he is justified in asking for it, and the 49ers should be willing to give it to him.
If the 48ers are now stuck with holding to the slotting system, then I believe we can plan on a season-long holdout and taking our chances with a March trade. It the 49ers can get another first (late teens) and a third for him, that would be the best hope at this point.
I just do not think this is all about the money. That is a part of it but I am convinced it has a great deal to do with the offensive scheme and the lack of a quality QB.
Young players want to play in an exciting scheme, not a Woody Hayes "three yards and a cloud of dust" system. Crabtree may be a diva, a prima donna or just a young kid who lives to catch the football, but he deserves to have a chance to play in a system that suits his talents, or get paid very handsomely for putting up with standing an watching some guy run it.
To bad... because Dallas proved run based team can work with Emmit (Gore), Irvin (Craptree), Harper (Morgan) and good TE (Vernon)
Don't ask me who plays Aikman
nate davis biotches!
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:46 PM
- battletowin
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,506
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM
- pdxredandgold
- Veteran
- Posts: 898
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135
Son of a B
Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI
[ Edited by pdxredandgold on Sep 10, 2009 at 15:49:33 ]
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135
Son of a B
Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI
[ Edited by pdxredandgold on Sep 10, 2009 at 15:49:33 ]
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:47 PM
- battletowin
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,506
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
from rotoworld.com
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
from rotoworld.com
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:50 PM
- ninertico
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,259
Originally posted by pdxredandgold:
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135
Son of a B
Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:52 PM
- battletowin
- Veteran
- Posts: 6,506
Originally posted by ninertico:Originally posted by pdxredandgold:
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135
Son of a B
Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI
F**K we finally get a wideout that can be explosive and he is holding out and being a selfish b**ch.
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:52 PM
- backontop
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,346
Originally posted by ninertico:Originally posted by pdxredandgold:
According to ESPN.com's John Clayton, Michael Crabtree has already decided that he won't sign for the slotted deal that the 49ers are offering.
The Niners are showing no signs of increasing their offer, so this stalemate is headed into the regular season. Crabtree seems perfectly willing to miss game action rather than sign for the No. 10 pick price.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5135
Son of a B
Crabtree update: Michael Crabtree has decided he won't sign at the market price being offered by the 49ers, a source said. It's pretty clear the 49ers aren't going to up their offer, which is roughly what the 10th pick in the draft should receive -- a five-year, $20 million deal that could max out at $26.5 million. This holdout is destined to go into the regular season, and neither side has a solution to end it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4463043&name=clayton_john&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryI
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:52 PM
- ads_2006
- Veteran
- Posts: 56,463
so the niners would rather lose the number 10 pick
instead of paying a couple extra mill
knowing a rookie cap system is likely on the way as well
This is the same front office that gave Clements a good deal of money as well too
instead of paying a couple extra mill
knowing a rookie cap system is likely on the way as well
This is the same front office that gave Clements a good deal of money as well too
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:54 PM
- backontop
- Veteran
- Posts: 14,346
Originally posted by ads_2006:
so the niners would rather lose the number 10 pick
instead of paying a couple extra mill
knowing a rookie cap system is likely on the way as well
This is the same front office that gave Clements a good deal of money as well too
Clements was a "proven" player. Crabtree is just another rookie. Let him sit and end up in Dallas where he probably really wants to play. No big deal I think he will flop anyway. I have a feeling he is uncertain of how his foot is going to react to football and wants a large paycheck right off the bat(guaranteed money)
Sep 10, 2009 at 3:58 PM
- D_Niner
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,498
I say keep the $$$ the same but lower whats required to hit the incentives (not to the point of giving it away, but more reasonable then breaking Rice's records)...